Dealing with C.Falcon

[Stormfury12]

Okay after about 400 or so matches my worst match up is with Falcon. I just can't stop his grab game or speed. Any advice for taking him down or at least holding out against him?

 

[thadd_fin]

Neutral b ==> Taunt (of your choosing) ==> Bask in the glorious rays of victory

 

[Scarlet Jile]

I find Falcon to be one of the most fun matchups for Ganondorf, and I personally think it's around 50:50.

If you are getting beat by dash grab consistently, then you are just losing 50/50 scenarios more than you are winning them, but you don't have to be. If he's running at your shield, you can roll, Dtilt, SH Dair, even spot dodge. SH Dair puts the fear of God into dash-grabbing Falcons, but these are all still only mix-ups.

His speed is scary, but you aren't pitting your movement speed against his, really, since you won't be doing a great deal of approaching. The reason they tend to dash grab so much is because A. it's good, and B. they want to get you off-balance for their strings, which can't happen when you're on the ground shielding.

More than likely, there will be times when you're getting bounced around like a toy. Just make sure you reset to the ledge when you're getting juggled and start looking for patterns to exploit in his approach game. The best thing about this match-up is that you get to use basically every move in your arsenal, since there are no gimmicks, no counters, no projectile walls, and a fast-paced, even off-stage game.

 

[Stormfury12]

Thank you very much for the feed back! Falcon is a fun match and I usually am over whelmed by his speed tho. Thanks for the advice

 

[Big O]

What I find helpful against CF is to jump a lot and try to force a more aerial focused battle. His speed in the air much more manageable, your aerials are more threatening than his, and when you jump a lot he can't really dash grab you as easily. Mix it up between full hop Nair, empty full hops, short hop AC Uair/Bair, SHFF Nair, and empty short hops. If you jump over a dash grab, you can footstool -> Wizkick for free or just Dair if you are quick.

On the ground I'd stick to Dtilt, Side B, Dash Atk, pivot Ftilt/Fsmash, and the occasional Usmash bait. If you must sit in shield, I think spot dodging a little early is better than rolling. Also, jumping OoS is something you should keep in mind if he does a lot of feints.

 

[Dr. Krumm]

I played this matchup recently against a friend of mine and I started experimenting with F-air edge guarding. So far it's doing wonders for my edge guarding, though this is only useful if C.F recovers low. Just run of the ledge and punch him, the hit box is huge, the knockback is huge and it deals massive percents. So far the only thing I've seen Falcons do to work arounds this is to recover high, in that case you U-air them or B-air them (depending on the height of course).

 

[Stormfury12]

After playing against C.F some more at my school's game club I found that like stated earlier that staying in the air is a good option. I've been using N-air's and reverse U-air's to keep him at bay. I also found that zoning with D-tilt is a good option and Flame choke into short hop + D-air is also good against people who tech.

 

[_Magus_]

This is a 60;40 for cap imo. It's an uphill battle, but not unwinnable. His grabs are very rewarding, but he can't grab you if you're in the air, can he? This MU is about air game moreso than others, as Cap has eh range, especially in the air, and can be gimped easily. Our offstage game is a lot better than his, as we have a much wider variety of aerials to gimp with. He has only dair and in some cases nair. We have nair, uair, fair, dair, and even bair in some cases. Stay in the air, get your reads, and get him offstage as fast as possible. Also, DO NOT FEAR HIM. As Ganondorf, you need to make your opponent fear your options. You'll have a hard time doing that if you get scared by his rushdown. Just be patient, stay in the air, and get him off the stage.

 

[JmacAttack]

I played this matchup recently against a friend of mine and I started experimenting with F-air edge guarding. So far it's doing wonders for my edge guarding, though this is only useful if C.F recovers low. Just run of the ledge and punch him, the hit box is huge, the knockback is huge and it deals massive percents. So far the only thing I've seen Falcons do to work arounds this is to recover high, in that case you U-air them or B-air them (depending on the height of course).

Getting an Ftilt at mid percent pretty much guarantees he can't recover high though, and if he recovers from slightly under the stage, falling bair is incredible for getting stage spikes. Falcon generally only recovers high off of low percent Fsmash or Uair.

 

[A2ZOMG]

I swear, the only problem I have in this matchup is Falcon's 3 frame Jab is just actually kinda lame to deal with. If it weren't for that, I would go so far to argue that Ganon wins this matchup.

Technically, Ganondorf can answer everything Falcon can do in neutral, though you do have to guess. As per usual, Falcon is really bad when juggled and edgeguarded, which Ganondorf enjoys. As long as you are able to avoid Falcon's D-air and F-air offstage, he usually has to work harder to kill you.

But really, the most annoying part of this matchup is when Falcon gets close, he just Jabs and there isn't much you can do about it. This is especially annoying in situations where you end up clashing with him on the ground given you can't exactly wall him out consistently with your range. Hence why N-airs are often a preferred way of spacing him out.

Atm I think he wins 55/45...because that Jab makes it harder than normal to consistently force him on the defensive in neutral. Mostly though, it's a very momentum oriented matchup that's dictated very hugely by personal playstyle.

 

[CyberHyperPhoenix]

I swear, the only problem I have in this matchup is Falcon's 3 frame Jab is just actually kinda lame to deal with. If it weren't for that, I would go so far to argue that Ganon wins this matchup.

Technically, Ganondorf can answer everything Falcon can do in neutral, though you do have to guess. As per usual, Falcon is really bad when juggled and edgeguarded, which Ganondorf enjoys. As long as you are able to avoid Falcon's D-air and F-air offstage, he usually has to work harder to kill you.

But really, the most annoying part of this matchup is when Falcon gets close, he just Jabs and there isn't much you can do about it. This is especially annoying in situations where you end up clashing with him on the ground given you can't exactly wall him out consistently with your range. Hence why N-airs are often a preferred way of spacing him out.

Atm I think he wins 55/45...because that Jab makes it harder than normal to consistently force him on the defensive in neutral. Mostly though, it's a very momentum oriented matchup that's dictated very hugely by personal playstyle.

Dash attack beats out Falcon's Jab.

 

[JmacAttack]

I swear, the only problem I have in this matchup is Falcon's 3 frame Jab is just actually kinda lame to deal with. If it weren't for that, I would go so far to argue that Ganon wins this matchup.

Technically, Ganondorf can answer everything Falcon can do in neutral, though you do have to guess. As per usual, Falcon is really bad when juggled and edgeguarded, which Ganondorf enjoys. As long as you are able to avoid Falcon's D-air and F-air offstage, he usually has to work harder to kill you.

But really, the most annoying part of this matchup is when Falcon gets close, he just Jabs and there isn't much you can do about it. This is especially annoying in situations where you end up clashing with him on the ground given you can't exactly wall him out consistently with your range. Hence why N-airs are often a preferred way of spacing him out.

Atm I think he wins 55/45...because that Jab makes it harder than normal to consistently force him on the defensive in neutral. Mostly though, it's a very momentum oriented matchup that's dictated very hugely by personal playstyle.

Might not make much difference in the matchup, but if you read a Raptor Boost, and you use Super Armor Warlock Punch, it's a guaranteed hit. Hilariously, I've even had success with reverse Warlock Punch, because apparently Raptor Boost does the uppercut when he reaches your foot, but since Ganon pulls his upper body back, it whiffs entirely.

Same with aerial Falcon Kick, but Falcons generally aren't stupid enough to use aerial falcon kick on a grounded foe.

I think it's 50:50, but like any matchup, it must be played smartly. Ganon kills with far more of his less risky moves, and tilts do set up juggles and edgeguards, which are basically the equivalent of what Falcon gets out of a grab. That jab is definitely a big deal, as is his dash grab, but as long as you stay airborne, you can make him work for those grabs. The only move of his that kills earlier than what we have is sweetspotted knee, as it's basically our fsmash in terms of kill power. This is why it's important not to get grabbed, as even though it's hard to sweetspot, he can make it easier by grabbing and comboing. If you get grabbed, DO NOT DI TOWARDS HIM FOR THE LOVE OF GOD! If anything, you should DI up and try to interrupt his combo with an up-air.

Short hop reverse uair is good for keeping him away, as the our uair hitbox is disjointed, and the final hitbox comes out right before the autocancel window, unlike bair, which doesn't autocancel out of short hop unless you use it the instant you take to the air. Uair's tipman doesn't do much damage or knockback, but I find it much easier to autocancel and hit with than bair. RAR bair is a bit more risky, since moving closer to Falcon gives you less time to react if he decides to start running at you. I prefer retreating bair once you've closed some distance and made him think you're approaching, since that gives you more time to react if he takes the bait, and is easier to land because he won't be zooming past the hitbox if you were a split second too late.

We can beat his juggles with WizFoot as long as we're above him and we aren't locked in hitstun. It should also be noted that Choke beats out Raptor Boost and Falcon Kick, if he's a fan of either. Unfortunately, he's one of the characters we have no guaranteed followups on out of a missed tech, so you have to go for reads if you land one. If he likes getup attack, fullhop aerial wizfoot is easy to land and can kill.

Dash attack beats out Falcon's Jab.

He'd be silly to use jab outside of melee range, but I suppose that's something. Can be rolled out of if you get caught in shield, but you need to time it right.

 

[JmacAttack]

I played this matchup recently against a friend of mine and I started experimenting with F-air edge guarding. So far it's doing wonders for my edge guarding, though this is only useful if C.F recovers low. Just run of the ledge and punch him, the hit box is huge, the knockback is huge and it deals massive percents. So far the only thing I've seen Falcons do to work arounds this is to recover high, in that case you U-air them or B-air them (depending on the height of course).

Ah, one more thing. I already replied to you earlier, but I just remembered that if you condition him to recover high by edgeguarding low, that makes getting dair spikes much easier. Those kill him even at 0%. Something to consider.

 

[WorstSSBPlayerInTheWorld]

Don't try to Ganoncide falcon, he'll meteor smash you with up tilt : (

 

[_Magus_]

Don't try to Ganoncide falcon, he'll meteor smash you with up tilt : (

You can still catch him off guard with it. The point of Ganocide is to take a stock unexpectedly if you catch your opponent slipping. It shouldn't be a main means of killing. If any character sees that you go for the Ganocide a lot, they'll bait it and punish you hard (typically with a side smash)

I go for it too much too. It's hard habit to break.

 

[KenMeister]

50:50 huh? Interesting. I main Falcon, but I've yet to actually play an actual good Ganon with Falcon, since most good Ganons I play tend to be dittos, so I'll need to look into it. I always sort of assumed it was an uphill battle, since a Falcon in Ganon's face has almost always been impossible to swat away since Melee because of faster options like nair, jab and SH up-air, not to mention his threatening dash-grab which can close gaps in mid-range rather easily.

 

[A2ZOMG]

It is kinda uphill for Ganon...but it's not really terrible for him. I mean...he can still kill Falcon really fast in a few reads especially if he gets Falcon offstage, and has more range than him on some important moves.

 

[KenMeister]

It is kinda uphill for Ganon...but it's not really terrible for him. I mean...he can still kill Falcon really fast in a few reads especially if he gets Falcon offstage, and has more range than him on some important moves.

So it's mostly just the Melee matchup all over again, then? (Minus Falcons movement mindgames of course)

 

[Jebus244]

Falcon is reactive in most match-ups. In the Ganon match up, he can afford to be aggressive. It's difficult for Ganon to be aggressive in most match-ups, and this one is no exception.

Jab is your absolute best friend. It completely throws him off balance and allows for a dash attack at lower-mid percents.

Also, just simply running away is enough to catch falcon with a Bair. You should be fishing to make yourself seem venerable, get a read on a smash and Ftilt, or read a roll with a wiz kick.

Don't try dtilt after a choke, partially because of techs, but mostly because even if he misses the tech, his get up attack beats dtilt. Instead, run/roll away, or jump Nair/Dair. It depends on how you read it.

In the end, this match-up is littered with hard reads with Falcon on aggression and Ganon on reactive.

 

[Shogger]

Your best chance to win this matchup is offstage. Falcon's recovery options are about as limited as yours. Against my roommate, a Falcon main, generally if I put him offstage I chase and attempt to gimp with fastfall Nair, or empty hop and force him to recover high. If he recovers high, Fair Uair or Dair work.

Onstage you're going to be fighting dash grab and Falcon's jab. There's not much you can do about his jab if he gets too close, but if you stay in the air and attempt to land Nair or mixup with an Aerudo.