De-synch mechanic

[BronzeGreekGod]

Can someone pleaseeee explain to me in detail how the desynch mechanic works for ice climbers. I never understood how this worked in melee of brawl. Nana just always would run away from me and screw me over. So how can I control when she does this and how can i make her come back??

 

[GoblinGamerKid]

No one really how its gonna be for pm atm but anyways I hope they fix up ice in pm cause to me Icies in ssbm felt like a mess.

 

[BronzeGreekGod]

No one really how its gonna be for pm atm but anyways I hope they fix up ice in pm cause to me Icies in ssbm felt like a mess.

Okay i mean i know that we don't know how its gona be in PM exactly, but how was it in melee and brawl? I just never understood their mechanics at all! HALP!

 

[GoblinGamerKid]

Okay i mean i know that we don't know how its gona be in PM exactly, but how was it in melee and brawl? I just never understood their mechanics at all! HALP!

I have no idea with melee in brawl though alot of desynchs start with you running in certain pattern or shielding of some sort then inputting your actions this video might help http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zmDrmUnz1gQ

 

[BronzeGreekGod]

I have no idea with melee in brawl though alot of desynchs start with you running in certain pattern or shielding of some sort then inputting your actions this video might help http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zmDrmUnz1gQ

God I hate this mechanic. Its so complicated. Why cant they just always be synched up. Or at the very least, why cant Nana just always stay by your side. When she runs away it just ruins the game.

At least if theres a method to re-synch them i'd be a bit more happy.
Anyone know about how to do this?

 

[GoblinGamerKid]

God I hate this mechanic. Its so complicated. Why cant they just always be synched up. Or at the very least, why cant Nana just always stay by your side. When she runs away it just ruins the game.

Yes it can get annoying also I heard that 9B (probably the best ICs at brawl) is always walking and not running just so he dosnt mess up desynchs or tripping.

 

[BronzeGreekGod]

Yes it can get annoying also I heard that 9B (probably the best ICs at brawl) is always walking and not running just so he dosnt mess up desynchs or tripping.

Sorry just saw this after i edited my last post. You dont know if theres a way to re synch do u?

 

[GoblinGamerKid]

Sorry just saw this after i edited my last post. You dont know if theres a way to re synch do u?

Actually yeah the only thing that I know is when your in hitstun (in the air) you can repeatedly up air until both the climbers come together for some reason Uair can get them by each other and its really useful too I use it when im trying to get back onstage

 

[BronzeGreekGod]

Actually yeah the only thing that I know is when your in hitstun (in the air) you can repeatedly up air until both the climbers come together for some reason Uair can get them by each other and its really useful too I use it when im trying to get back onstage

K wow this might come in handy! lol

 

[dettadeus]

Judging from the descriptions and what I saw in the video, stuff like the spotdodge desync will be back from Melee, and other things like the pivot desync will be brought in from Brawl (although I'm not really sure how they kept brawl desyncs considering how they were almost entirely dependent on abusing the 10-frame buffer).

Nana's AI was vastly improved in Brawl. If they're primarily using Brawl's AI, Nana probably won't randomly run away from you. If you don't desync on your own, the only way to be separated from Nana is for the opponent to hit you.

In Brawl you could resync the climbers by doing three things:
1. SideB while Nana is in range and not already doing another special
2. UpB while Nana is in range and not already doing another special
3. Sit still until Nana returns to idle with you.

I dunno if they kept the awkward teleporting Nana stuff from Brawl but if they did, it still applies obviously (I noticed UpB cancelling Nana's Fair endlag, so this at least is in).

From what I could tell, Nana returned to semi-random throws based on stage position (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vIxskj3UFV0&t=1m15s dthrow > fthrow handoff) but since only one such situation was shown anything is possible, really. Most people can only hope that Nana does indeed throw semi-randomly considering that Wobbling is back, because otherwise you would also have Brawl chaingrabs without tripping (meaning much more options with no random chance of failure).

 

[cmart]

Both wobbling and brawl hand offs are gone Detta. Nana throws are now determined by her AI, rather than player input (similar to how melee did it)

 

[BronzeGreekGod]

All this aside, I was really hoping Ice climbers would stick together a lot more religiously. I don't like being separated and thus never use the ice climbers.

 

[Alex Night]

Both wobbling and brawl hand offs are gone Detta. Nana throws are now determined by her AI, rather than player input (similar to how melee did it)

I like this post with the power of a thousand suns!

 

[dettadeus]

Both wobbling and brawl hand offs are gone Detta. Nana throws are now determined by her AI, rather than player input (similar to how melee did it)

Definitely looked like there were small durations of wobbling/blizzobbling but I'll take your word for it. Considering that we can't see the percents I guess they could just be high enough (and not mashing) so that they don't break out during Popo pummeling and Nana attacking.

If you don't mind me asking, what sorts of Brawl desyncs were kept in? I definitely saw the Pivot desync (turnaround > popo jab + nana dash attack) but I'm curious as to what survived the lack of buffering.

 

[SAX]

Are you sure the 0-death chain grabbing AND wobbling are both gone, 100%? I saw some of the brawl cg in the 3.0 demo video...

If they can't even figure out they need to het rid of both wobbling and the brawl cg then I don't have any hope.

 

[TheNumber47]

The chaingrab you saw here that looks similar to the infinite in Brawl is called the "Handoff" in Melee. It's an extremely difficult chain grab that only works when facing the edge of the stage and is generally only used 2-3 times successfully.

As for the questions asking how desyncs worked in Brawl and Melee... This really isn't the place to nag for someone to tell you about Melee and Brawl mechanics, so you should go look those things up yourself.But I'll just leave this here for reference

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nU3NDDwt4M4&list=PL8CD973767D35641A

Get hype everyone!

 

[cmart]

Are you sure the 0-death chain grabbing AND wobbling are both gone, 100%? I saw some of the brawl cg in the 3.0 demo video...

If they can't even figure out they need to het rid of both wobbling and the brawl cg then I don't have any hope.

I'll repeat that they're both gone. Wobbling relies on mechanics we did NOT port over to PM for just this very reason, and brawl hand offs rely on being able to tell Nana which direction to throw - something we removed. You can still have Nana do other moves to help rack up damage while you have someone grabbed, but the other guy can mash out.

 

[TreK]

Hmm, does relying on an IA to be unpredictable actually work ? Because people's main complain with IA is that it is predictable.
I'm curious how you handled it lol

 

[cmart]

I never said her AI was random, and learning the rules and quirks it operates under will be necessary to mastering the character - just as it was in previous titles.

 

[drsusredfish]

reading the comments it sounds like where she is on the stage determines what throw she will use. maybe her AI is set up to always send the opponent toward the closest blast zone?

 

[dettadeus]

reading the comments it sounds like where she is on the stage determines what throw she will use. maybe her AI is set up to always send the opponent toward the closest blast zone?

It works like in Melee. She tends to throw people towards the edge when near the edge, near center stage it's more random. This led to handoffs in Melee which a lot of climbers players used when Wobbling wasn't an option.

 

[| Big D |]

If there is a way to infinite I will find it.

 

[cmart]

Haha I can't get over how amazing your avatar/sig are. My god I'm terrified

 

[Flush 5]

Bronze, respectfully, if you've never been able to control or understand the desynch, why are you so hasty to judge? It's such an amazing and unique way to fight. It's rarely an annoyance when you understand when and why you desync. Wavedashing makes it really easy to stay together and move quickly, they had one of the better WD in melee. But it's so damn fun and useful to attack with two characters so quickly. With practice you get fast enough and smooth enough that when you desync, whether on purpose or not, you just know when your input will be for popo and when it's nana, and you move/attack/counter/grab destruction accordingly.

 

[Skimchee]

Would it be possible to implement a Nana damage counter? I just think it might be worth looking into as a nice reference. You won't really need it to play efficiently as IC's, but it would help.

EDIT: I know this is out of place in the desync thread. I forgot this thread was about that mechanic rather than a general discussion thread by the time I made it down to the comment box...ha my b

 

[Flush 5]

I like that other people don't know though, because (I gotcha here skimchee, reelin it in) when I'm desynched the opponent may not know her damage and that can be a good advantage. You don't need to know it exactly, but if you know when/how she gets hit, it's not hard to ballpark.

 

[shadow0x0cloud]

I guess its good to know. I don't see it as very necessary because whether Nana is at 0% or 999%, when you guys split up the opponent will almost definitely go after Nana. That and also you don't want to leave Nana alone, so even if she was at 0% or even at 100% your not gonna just let her fight for herself.

Basically its not a bad addition, but for that much work to make a % thing for Nana the gain is nonexistent

 

[PastLink]

Judging from the descriptions and what I saw in the video, stuff like the spotdodge desync will be back from Melee, and other things like the pivot desync will be brought in from Brawl (although I'm not really sure how they kept brawl desyncs considering how they were almost entirely dependent on abusing the 10-frame buffer).

Nana's AI was vastly improved in Brawl. If they're primarily using Brawl's AI, Nana probably won't randomly run away from you. If you don't desync on your own, the only way to be separated from Nana is for the opponent to hit you.

In Brawl you could resync the climbers by doing three things:
1. SideB while Nana is in range and not already doing another special
2. UpB while Nana is in range and not already doing another special
3. Sit still until Nana returns to idle with you.

I dunno if they kept the awkward teleporting Nana stuff from Brawl but if they did, it still applies obviously (I noticed UpB cancelling Nana's Fair endlag, so this at least is in).

From what I could tell, Nana returned to semi-random throws based on stage position (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vIxskj3UFV0&t=1m15s dthrow > fthrow handoff) but since only one such situation was shown anything is possible, really. Most people can only hope that Nana does indeed throw semi-randomly considering that Wobbling is back, because otherwise you would also have Brawl chaingrabs without tripping (meaning much more options with no random chance of failure).

I thought they got rid of wobbling?

 

[cmart]

Confirming for the umpteenth time, wobbling is gone

 

[210stuna]

| Big D |

Sup

 

[JB IV]

Are the regrab timings for each throw the same as in Brawl (down and back throws were weight dependent and I thought characters had their weights altered. If the timing is different it could be difficult to switch back-and-forth from playing ICs in PM and Brawl because you need your timing in Brawl to be as good as possible or ICs are low-tier. Did characters like Lucas and Ness who were more difficult to regrab out of f-throw because their hitboxes were so high get adjusted?

 

[DrinkingFood]

good thing you don't need to switch back and forth between PM and brawl anymore, now that PM is better in every way
also I'm pretty sure PMBR got rid of their brawl infinites along with their melee infinite because that's a ****ing stupid design
why on earth would PMBR adjust thw PK kids to make ice climbers even stupider?
if you're trying to play anyone in PM the same as brawl you're doing it wrong anyway

 

[GingaBread]

if you're trying to play anyone in PM the same as brawl you're doing it wrong anyway

I learned this the hard way the other day with snake XD

 

[GeZ]

All this aside, I was really hoping Ice climbers would stick together a lot more religiously. I don't like being separated and thus never use the ice climbers.

Then play any character but the Ice Climbers. Their forte is their ability to operate independently, and to want them to stick together more so is ridiculous. All of their cool tricks and flavor comes from the distinct feel of playing two characters at the same time, as they come as close as the smash series can to playing a "puppet" character, so to speak. If you aren't interested in it then why ask the Dev's to normalize a character whose strengths stem from their diversity.

If you want to play two adorable snowy siblings, Ice Climbers are for you. If you're more feeling any permutation of a one unit character, then pick literally almost any other member of the cast. Your sensibilities will thank thee.

 

[Renji64]

I'm trying to learn the ic's in P:M any guides that someone can point me too?

 

[DrinkingFood]

Idk if this is known, but the ICs can be desync'd out of shield by pressing up on the cstick
it'll make PoPo jump while NaNa does a usmash out of shield, putting out a hitbox while PoPo is free to attack.

 

[Yoki]

^ USmash > Fair Meteor is about as flashy as you can get. You can also have Popo short hop by flicking the C-stick fast enough.

I don't know either if this is known already, but this seems pretty huge: any grounded attack besides Over B and Up B can desynch by pressing shield right after inputting the command (probably the next frame), which will make Nana do the corresponding shield action instead. Ftilt and Fsmash (C-sticking works) make her roll, jab and dash attack makes her (dash) grab, Ice Block make her shield, Blizzard, Dtilt and Dsmash make her dodge, Utilt and Usmash make her jump (essentially the opposite outcome of an Usmash OoS).

Yep, instant Nana desynch from nearly every Popo ground move. Okay, Ftilt and Fsmash making her roll sucks, but still, every other option seems very potent.

 

[Xebenkeck]

The dthrow -> nana f-air meteor tech chase still works from Brawl.

 

[210stuna]

I was playing some matches against my friend, and every time I would shield grab him from a dash attack or something my partner would be the one to grab him not me.

 

[Vickyboi]

Time to practice wavedashing with the C-stick then! :D