"Dash-Crouch-Dance" New Advanced Technique

[Daftatt]

So I'm not sure exactly who first found this (shoutouts to @ Drodeka for telling me about it though).

EDIT: Original credit looks like it's going to @ br8k
Also he calls it the Megadashdance, which maybe overhypes it a bit, but it's another name if you don't like DCD
http://smashboards.com/threads/instant-ish-dash-reset-aka-megadashdance™.350913/

It's actually really cool, and if you are willing to sacrifice a shoulder button it has a lot of potential, particularly for characters with fantastic run animations:


Here is a short video I made explaining the technique and a little taste of it's possible applications.

 

[Drodeka]

I think I learned about it from a thread right here on the discussion board but I can't seem to find it.

 

[Daftatt]

I think I learned about it from a thread right here on the discussion board but I can't seem to find it.

It's freaking awesome, I would love to give credit to the person who first posted it.

 

[Kati]

Squirtle hops like a bunny <3

I've been learning pivot walking and other weird movement stuff. Holding A just allows for really cool times.

 

[Hylian]

It's freaking awesome, I would love to give credit to the person who first posted it.

Ever heard of the FastLikeTree pivot or a Treegrab? This is very similar. Also, I don't see the benefits of this over a wavedash as they both can reverse your direction immediately out of a run but you have more options out of the wavedash, cool stuff though.

 

[DrinkingFood]

Also, I don't see the benefits of this over a wavedash as they both can reverse your direction immediately out of a run but you have more options out of the wavedash, cool stuff though.

This would be notably better than wavedashing out of a run since you are free to act in reaction to the opponent at any frame, whereas wavedashing has from 14-19 frames of lag (in PM) during which you cannot act.

 

[Daftatt]

This would be notably better than wavedashing out of a run since you are free to act in reaction to the opponent at any frame, whereas wavedashing has from 14-19 frames of lag (in PM) during which you cannot act.

A fox player could be seriously scary to defend against with this.

 

[Hylian]

This would be notably better than wavedashing out of a run since you are free to act in reaction to the opponent at any frame, whereas wavedashing has from 14-19 frames of lag (in PM) during which you cannot act.

I don't think the difference would be notable considering your options when your back is to your opponent and in a dash are far less than when facing your opponent in a wavedash back. Actually being in the running animation while both players are in neutral is a lot less common than being in your dash animation, could be pretty useful for cross-up mix-ups however. It would also be dependant on a characters run/dash speed and their wavedash burst movement. Turn animations are hardly worth mentioning as people don't ever use them.

Edit: Also, this technology existed long ago for melee and was discovered by Fastliketree: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=I6OsFK0ce4E

They are used for different purposes and this tech is pointless in PM because you can just pivot grab out of a run, but it does allow for things like pivot fsmash out of run or just fsmash out of run, or just changing direction. Some players in melee do this to move around out of a run animation(ARC for example) but they do the manual crouch input instead of using the cstick which wasn't possible in melee.

I tried this myself and found it much more reliable to just crouch using the control stick rather than hold attack and use the c-stick. You won't get the fastest crouch every time but I did it for like 3 minutes and couldn't really tell the difference between just using the control stick and doing it the way displayed.

Edit: I'm not trying to downplay this or anything it's pretty cool I just like studying new things :3.

 

[?.?]

Hmmm... Could you claw the A button to hold attack instead of sacrificing a trigger? That might make me try it sometime.

 

[Hylian]

Hmmm... Could you claw the A button to hold attack instead of sacrificing a trigger? That might make me try it sometime.

Yes, you can. This is what I did when trying that method. You could also just crouch with the control stick if you are fast(I hold the controller weird so it's easier for me to do it this way).

 

[?.?]

Yes, you can. This is what I did when trying that method. You could also just crouch with the control stick if you are fast(I hold the controller weird so it's easier for me to do it this way).

So it would be an input order something like this?
Hold
Dash
Then Slide

And repeat?

 

[Hylian]

So it would be an input order something like this?
Hold
Dash
Then Slide

And repeat?

You don't need to hold anything if you are just using the control stick. The reason you hold A is so that when you press C-stick down to do a crouch it doesn't do a dash attack.

So for Cstick version it would be : going into the run animation before hitting cstick down.

For Analog stick it would be : going into run animation before hitting analog stick down.

 

[?.?]

Oh, that makes sense. Sorry my wii is kinda packed up right now and I can't test it. Appreciate the help though, and now no one else will ask... Probably.

 

[Daftatt]

Actually being in the running animation while both players are in neutral is a lot less common than being in your dash animation

Well I think that's a result of the dash being a better option that run since you could instantly reverse direction to avoid their advances Dash dancing is a very interesting technique in the context of all fighting games since it's inherently defensive but has the potential to be offensive, DCD makes dash dancing able to cover more of the stage in less time which makes it a fantastic way to intrude on your opponent's neutral game space while keeping the defensive qualities of Dash-dancing that we all love. The only reason I feel that this tech is worth trying out is that many character cover more distance during run as opposed to a dash animation, the ability to move slightly faster and change direction slightly faster than the opponent when taken to mastery will always be an advantage in the melee engine.

If you aren't willing to give up a button mapping, which is totally reasonable since this AT won't be deciding matches any time soon, then I'd still say it's a must to learn quick manual crouching like Hylian mentioned, it just simply makes your run animation a much more potent approach... Except for squirtle, but then again us squirtle players have enough movement ATs to keep ourselves busy.

 

[Bleck]

This sounds really hard to do for little-to-no reason!

 

[Daftatt]

This sounds really hard to do for little-to-no reason!

Squirtle bunny hop taunt. Need I say more?

 

[Hylian]

This sounds really hard to do for little-to-no reason!

Nah it's pretty easy actually and something a lot of top/high level players do already as a part of normal movement.

Daft the reason I said you don't find yourself in the running animation much in neutral is because not many match-ups play out at a range where characters want to be running distance from each other in neutral, most try for baits at mid-range hence why dash dancing is so prevalent. This is also why you see things like marth players approaching from outside mid-range with wavedash and then dashing into mid range, you keep the option for a dash back open this way and it's not much different than this tech in application or use. This tech is beneficial on an empty cross-up but not too much after that.

 

[jtm94]

In all honesty if I could do this perfectly and practiced I would use it always.

I really like this for characters who have terrible dash dances like Sheik and Squirtle. AGainst characters with range it is hard to implement but characters who have more close-range moves you can run in and instead of wavedashing back you can just do this dash back and then pivot-grab immediately or dash in and punish.

 

[tauKhan]

http://smashboards.com/threads/new-movement-technique-immediate-dash-out-of-run.354123/

@ Hylian , since dash inputs are so easily obtained in this game, it's faster to dash cancel with almost diagonal input and roll over to dash. Also if you press right, down, then you have to wait for initial crouch ( 8 frames) to end before you can dash left, but if you go right, downright roll left, you'll dash left faster. Also if you are running this is imo better than wding, if your dash speed is good, since it doesn't put you in to lag. It's much easier to punish your opponents response during dash back than wd since with wd you need to decide the length you are going for earlier. If you can pivot, which is easy in pm, you even retain every option.

This is also slightly different than fastliketree, since you can now dash during initial crouch, making this faster.

 

[Daftatt]

In all honesty if I could do this perfectly and practiced I would use it always.

I really like this for characters who have terrible dash dances like Sheik and Squirtle. AGainst characters with range it is hard to implement but characters who have more close-range moves you can run in and instead of wavedashing back you can just do this dash back and then pivot-grab immediately or dash in and punish.

I agree, but there is some more information that is relevant to squirtle players that everyone should know.

First off squirtle's dash animation can only be canceled into another dash at near the very beginning, so if you want to have the functionality of a dashdance you are going to need to be short hop ShellSlinging-PerfectWavelandBackwards, turnaround dashcanceling, turnaround pivot back/forward wavedashing, and then your grab punish should usually be a hydroplaned grab. HOWEVER, there may be added functionality, Drodeka mentioned that hitting C-stick up (as opposed to down) will skid squirtle to a stop which you can shellshift out of, it could be very useful for shellshift poking. Even more usefull for squirtle however is that if you map a shoulder button to attack you can do what is called a shellstall by holding the direction of a dash then flicking the C-stick in the opposite direction, extremely useful for poking since you will have a little turnaround armor (you can also act out of into another move like sheild/grab/jab instantly)

So if you are a squirtle player and want the most out of his movement options you pretty much have to use a DCD capable control mapping.

Also, not relevant to this AT but if you can get a perfect momentum cancel out of shellshift when you hydroplane squirtle's grab he moves so fast on each frame of his grab he can teleport past many hitboxes, it's freakin nuts.

 

[br8k]

EDIT: Original credit looks like it's going to @ br8k
Also he calls it the Megadashdance, which maybe overhypes it a bit, but it's another name if you don't like DCD

Hey I eventually started calling is C-Dashing, which is easier to say than DCD.

(Could also be called C-Dancing, which sounds nice. Sea dancing.)

Edit: And someone else already made a vid demonstrating this technique with my name of C-Dashing.

 

[tauKhan]

So if you are a squirtle player and want the most out of his movement options you pretty much have to use a DCD capable control mapping.

Or you can use control stick. Also better to call it run dancing imo, because you are doing it out of run.

 

[Chesstiger2612]

<3 Made my day. I always love seeing new technology discovered.
Use R for attack anyways (DACUS reasons).
For which characters this makes the biggest difference?

 

[tauKhan]

Imo chars with safe long range pokes, good dash speed, or good range in general. You can mix running in and poking with dashing back. Also chars with short initial dash can use this more often, because they don't need so much space for run, sheik for example.

Edit: For those that didn't read my thread, you can dash going from -60º ish angle to -30ºish angle. It is very fast to just dash cancel with -60º, dash -30º and dash 180º. This way you don't have to limit yourself on having to start holding attack at some point; you can do this whenever you like.

 

[Hylian]

http://smashboards.com/threads/new-movement-technique-immediate-dash-out-of-run.354123/

@ Hylian , since dash inputs are so easily obtained in this game, it's faster to dash cancel with almost diagonal input and roll over to dash. Also if you press right, down, then you have to wait for initial crouch ( 8 frames) to end before you can dash left, but if you go right, downright roll left, you'll dash left faster. Also if you are running this is imo better than wding, if your dash speed is good, since it doesn't put you in to lag. It's much easier to punish your opponents response during dash back than wd since with wd you need to decide the length you are going for earlier. If you can pivot, which is easy in pm, you even retain every option.

This is also slightly different than fastliketree, since you can now dash during initial crouch, making this faster.

I was crouching and dashing before the full crouch animation fine by hitting down on the control stick, didn't even have to practice it. It's easy.

I disagree with your assertion of the move being much easier than WD back to punish things. You are just looking at numbers and not taking into account inputs, how much time it takes to react to things, and how long you have lag in wd compared to how long it takes to do this and then pivot in reaction to something to acquire the same options.

 

[Chesstiger2612]

Imo chars with safe long range pokes, good dash speed, or good range in general. You can mix running in and poking with dashing back. Also chars with short initial dash can use this more often, because they don't need so much space for run, sheik for example.

Edit: For those that didn't read my thread, you can dash going from -60º ish angle to -30ºish angle. It is very fast to just dash cancel with -60º, dash -30º and dash 180º. This way you don't have to limit yourself on having to start holding attack at some point; you can do this whenever you like.

Those probably most.
I would also imagine that this is probably good for edgeguarding. Imagine you are at one end of the stage hitting your opponent offstage at the other one. If you reset your run you have access again to many more options, for example that superhard pivot ledgegrab.

 

[tauKhan]

I was crouching and dashing before the full crouch animation fine by hitting down on the control stick, didn't even have to practice it. It's easy.

I disagree with your assertion of the move being much easier than WD back to punish things. You are just looking at numbers and not taking into account inputs, how much time it takes to react to things, and how long you have lag in wd compared to how long it takes to do this and then pivot in reaction to something to acquire the same options.

We are playing different games then lol. (We are though technically, since I haven't updated to 3.02 from 3.0. I doubt that the crouching has changed.) Go to crouch, immediately press start, make sure you are not in full crouch, hold back and unstart. You are probably using your slow melee timing. I am bad at melee and pm, maybe I just choose wrong wd lengths. But often my opponent tries punish me and doesn't move, I can't punish, because I have backward momentum from wd still left, and I am too far away. Then I don't want to either risk that the opponent extends his attack toward me. I feel this tech covers both better than wd back.

Much better was big overstatement though.

Edit: @ Chesstiger2612

What, from run you have literally every option available to you, you can turnaround jump, or jump facing forward, and can use all of your ground moves.

 

[Hylian]

We are playing different games then lol. (We are though technically, since I haven't updated to 3.02 from 3.0. I doubt that the crouching has changed.) Go to crouch, immediately press start, make sure you are not in full crouch, hold back and unstart. You are probably using your slow melee timing. I am bad at melee and pm, maybe I just choose wrong wd lengths. But often my opponent tries punish me and doesn't move, I can't punish, because I have backward momentum from wd still left, and I am too far away. Then I don't want to either risk that the opponent extends his attack toward me. I feel this tech covers both better than wd back.

Much better was big overstatement though.

Edit: @ Chesstiger2612

What, from run you have literally every option available to you, you can turnaround jump, or jump facing forward, and can use all of your ground moves.

Just tested again and it is exactly the same with both inputs. You just aren't hitting down and then the opposite direction fast enough I am not doing it the slow melee way. I can stream it(and will in a few minutes) and show you. Also, people could have made use of something like this by just foxtrotting with most characters(for example fox's foxtrot is faster than his run).

Also, you do not have every option available to you out of run. While running you cannot Dsmash/Fsmash or use any tilt/jab.

 

[tauKhan]

I mean that you can run cancel into any of those . Lol I think you are actually not hitting the opposite direction fast enough, you need to do it very very fast. I had to go to slow motion to be able to NOT do it though, so it doesn't actually have any practical value and I think I shift to your method. Thanks. Only value is that my method gets momentum canceled pivot dashes instead, but it doesn't matter much, I can do it maybe 1 - 2 frames faster, or it might be even slower. I think the initial crouch is actually less than 7 frames in this game. Might be like 3 - 4.

Also I would love to watch your stream :D

 

[Drodeka]

Let's not forget this can give you a frame-perfect moonwalk, guys. Also, characters with good dash speeds but low dash distances (sheik) could get into the habit of doing this regularly to give them a dash dance more on the baiting side, since this would avoid the restrictions of a tight dash dance.

A lot of people say Marth has the best DD, and this is because his dash distance is long. Well, now everybody has a long dash distance.

 

[tauKhan]

I think marths long initial dash really hinders him. Foxes is much better: he can both run cancel into attacks, and make quite long dashes by avoiding run.

 

[Drodeka]

No, it definitely does not hinder him. It means that he can spend several moments observing his opponent before deciding to dash away, or dash pivot F-smash. This, added to the fact that Marth has a great grab range and terrific wavedash make his dash dance awesome.

 

[tauKhan]

Marth loses threat of immediate dtilt when he dash dances. His dtilt is could be utilized much better if the initial dash was shorter. And you can still do long dashes even if your initial dash is short. Just avoid running by releasing stick.

 

[AcousticAdrian]

Hey I eventually started calling is C-Dashing, which is easier to say than DCD.

(Could also be called C-Dancing, which sounds nice. Sea dancing.)

Edit: And someone else already made a vid demonstrating this technique with my name of C-Dashing.

Actually, "C-Dashing" was the name that I came up with. =P Also, it's pretty cool that this is starting to get more attention.

Take note, since you are in your crouch animation for one frame, you should theoretically have all of the options out of a crouch available to you if you are quick enough. For example, you might be able to perform a near-instant d-smash or f-smash out of a C-Dash Cancel.

 

[Sour Supreme]

A fox player could be seriously scary to defend against with this.

Stop giving them ideas. O_O
In the year 20XX Fox Mains will be ruling the world.

 

[tauKhan]

@ AcousticAdrian Except you hold your attack button lol. If you hold your attack down on the crouch frame, you can't press it again on the next, or the game thinks you still held attack. Just do normal dash cancel attacks, they are easy anyway.

 

[AcousticAdrian]

@ AcousticAdrian Except you hold your attack button lol. If you hold your attack down on the crouch frame, you can't press it again on the next, or the game thinks you still held attack. Just do normal dash cancel attacks, they are easy anyway.

Hm. For the F-smash, you could possibly hit C-down, release A, and immediately press C-forward. For the D-smash, you might have to have two attack buttons mapped on your controller, which could work as long as the game registers both attack inputs differently.

Edit: Actually, it would be kind of pointless. You can cancel the crouch on the same frame, regardless of whether you use the c-stick for it or use the control stick. =P

 

[tauKhan]

I think pm actually uses your action input, not button input. So if you have action on two different buttons, the game doesn't differentiate the buttons in any way.

 

[Daftatt]

Actually, "C-Dashing" was the name that I came up with. =P Also, it's pretty cool that this is starting to get more attention.

Take note, since you are in your crouch animation for one frame, you should theoretically have all of the options out of a crouch available to you if you are quick enough. For example, you might be able to perform a near-instant d-smash or f-smash out of a C-Dash Cancel.

When I think about the possibilities

 

[tauKhan]

I had a fun idea: Instead of using attack, use special at shoulder button and cstick for chars that don't need b in neutral, such as marth. That way you can use both this crouch dash, and then pivot using the cstick to get super easy pivoting in neutral while maintaing your ability to use normal attacks and smashes.