"Dash-Crouch-Dance" New Advanced Technique

[guedes the brawler]

so, ultimately, is ti going to be useful...?

 

[Drodeka]

Marth loses threat of immediate dtilt when he dash dances. His dtilt is could be utilized much better if the initial dash was shorter. And you can still do long dashes even if your initial dash is short. Just avoid running by releasing stick.

Marth loses the threat of immediate D-tilt in the air, when he shields, when you're behind him. He's not centered on immediate D-tilt. Besides, one could always Wavedash back then D-tilt.

 

[Daftatt]

so, ultimately, is ti going to be useful...?

Depends if you're man dedicated enough to commit to developing your playstyle with it. It COULD be a very potent movement mixup but only if you put in the time to learning when it's appropriate.

 

[Soft Serve]

I always just refered to this as c-dashing because you use the c-stick. Ive been incorporating this into my tech chase game, as Diddy at low percents if I grab I pummel with R and hold it, the dthrow and run after them. If they DI in I just release R and fair, If they DI down/away and tech I run after them and follow up accordingly.

Its strong because as shown in the video you get a free crouch out of it, or you could just start dash dancing again. Falcon LOVEs to be able to reset his run momentum without having to wd back/inplace, as his DD is so threatening. same with marth.

What it is really good for is running pivot f-smashes. Run, c-stick down, dash one way and c-stick in the opposite direction. Because c-stick counts as attack+direction, it does an automatic pivot f-smash. Its pretty useful.

Dash dance out of a full run+ Free pivot smashes out of a run for just holding a button I can release at any time? I think its worthwhile to Incorporate into one's game.

having full access to your pivots out of a run is amazing as well.

 

[Fortress]

This sounds really hard to do for little-to-no reason!

#meleetalk

 

[Chesstiger2612]

@ T tauKhan
Losing dash back option in run is big for characters which don't have a great WD, also every kind of pivot moves...
I therefore think a longer initial dash is always an advantage

 

[tauKhan]

This tech pretty much makes run always better than dash, because you now have every option available in dash and also gain options from run cancelling. The reason why you would want to dash back instead of wd back is exactly the same you would want to dash back instead of wd back from dash forward. Dash back makes you able to react and move better. While 13 - 18 frames of lag isn't much at all, and is slightly more than your reaction time at best, one must remember that you don't observe the game in real time for the same reason. That means that if your opponent does something you could react to just before you wd, you can't because you are in special landing lag. Also with dash back you can choose your counters spacing reactively, with wd you have to make a read.

Also what Soft Serve said. I would also like to say that with many chars I would rather empty pivot than wd pretty often.

@ T tauKhan
Losing dash back option in run is big for characters which don't have a great WD, also every kind of pivot moves...
I therefore think a longer initial dash is always an advantage

You do not lose dash back option when you do long dashes. They are achieved by releasing your stick before your initial dash ends, so that you don't enter run. I think all top marths and foxes use long dashes. If you have short initial dash, you can both dtilt out from shorter distance, and do long dashes that retain dash back. I.e you gain options, you don't lose them. You lose some speed that is gained when holding stick, but with chars like marth who have neglible dash acceleration it doesn't matter much. Fox dash is so threatening, because he can both run in and shine from it or dash back.

Edit: What I mean is that run is an option that becomes available to you after initial dash. Therefore the shorter the initial dash is, the better, if you have good initial dash speed. Of course if initial dash is too short, it would become technically difficult to not run.

And also you don't lose dash back in run in this game.

Marth loses the threat of immediate D-tilt in the air, when he shields, when you're behind him. He's not centered on immediate D-tilt. Besides, one could always Wavedash back then D-tilt.

Exactly, marths game isn't centered around immediate dtilt because he can't do it. If he could, he would be better character. And you don't jump with marth, unless your opponent is in the air. Wd dtilt is good, but adding 14 frames to moves start up is very significant loss.

 

[Chesstiger2612]

I was refering what would happen without this technique, with the DCD you are of course right

 

[Luigimitsu]

I actually figured this out myself 2 days ago... in Melee/PM I run, crouch then press dash then dash the opposite way straight after, people do that in Brawl, dash once then dash again and reverse it immediately, that's how you dash dance in Brawl except it sucks because of tripping.

It actually is the same thing I figured out by myself, only difference is this makes it easier to do. So it also works if you run, crouch then tap forward back, but since you are already holding forward while using the c-stick to crouch, you can just keep forward held down and dash after the c-stick input.

It works in Melee (without c-stick), but I've never seen a Melee player do it.

 

[tauKhan]

You haven't been paying attention then, there's even that fastliketree video hylian linked in this thread. This is also a lot harder in melee, since you can't dash back in the animation where you stand up from crouch. In melee you have 2 frame window, or you have to walk or dash forward first. Also in melee you can't dash in crouch startup (7 frames) at all.

 

[Luigimitsu]

I watch a lot of Melee videos, and no one really does it, they usually just wavedash. It's not the hardest thing in Melee, and yeah you don't dash back, you dash forward then back immediately.

Just like in Brawl, many Marth players (he has a longer dash) will do a dash, then press forward back really fast so it looks like a Melee dash dance. It works in a similar way but you cant do it from a running animation.

 

[tauKhan]

I watch a lot of Melee videos, and no one really does it, they usually just wavedash. It's not the hardest thing in Melee, and yeah you don't dash back, you dash forward then back immediately.

Just like in Brawl, many Marth players (he has a longer dash) will do a dash, then press forward back really fast so it looks like a Melee dash dance. It works in a similar way but you cant do it from a running animation.

Actually there was a big hype for the dash back from crouch in the melee scene few months ago. Leffen has been using that a little for longer time, and Cactuar started using it recently and KK at least experimented with it at TNE.

And I dash back out of run in melee . I forgot that you can do it if you go straight left from down very fast after initial crouch.

 

[Luigimitsu]

Actually there was a big hype for the dash back from crouch in the melee scene few months ago. Leffen has been using that a little for longer time, and Cactuar started using it recently and KK at least experimented with it at TNE.

And I dash back out of run in melee . I forgot that you can do it if you go straight left from down very fast after initial crouch.

I just find it weird that I figured this out myself and hardcore top level players have only been using it for a few months. It's also a very old Brawl technique without the crouch/run so I'm surprised it took so long...

 

[Chesstiger2612]

So after quite some testing this method is probably the one with most application:
Dash->Run until you want to turn
Tilt the stick down to the point where you crouch and instantly slam it to the side again
You are in dash again and can now change the stick position to the other end to perform a dashdance.

Normally works faster than going over neutral after crouch (if you want to dash back directly after the crouch), also you don't need to have attack pressed

 

[tauKhan]

I also prefer using stick only. It's even faster to dash to an angle ( little above down left or down right ) and then dash back.