DACUS and YOU! ; A general guide on DACUS timings, applications, and other information

[MonkUnit]

Also what's the frame windows for performing Falco's and others gatling combo?

See this earlier post.

4 frame jumpers have a 1 frame window to dacus with Attack. If you use Grab you will do a boost grab.
5 frame jumpers have a 2 frame window to dacus with Attack and a 1 frame window to dacus with Grab
6 frame jumpers have a 3 frame window to dacus with Attack and a 2 frame window to dacus with Grab.
etc

 

[SpiderMad]

See this earlier post.

I don't understand how to apply that towards performing a "gatling combo" since you have to hit the person

 

[MonkUnit]

It's still the same input and window, just having hitlag due to the dash attack hitbox.

 

[TheReflexWonder]

For those who are used to Brawl's DACUS timing with a trigger button (I set my R to Attack in order to DACUS), PM starts differently because of its registering light presses. However, you can reset the controller (hold X/Y/Start for three seconds) with the trigger button held down halfway, and then it won't register light presses, giving it the same timing as Brawl.

 

[ItsRainingGravy]

You're missing the best video in your list, https://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_detailpage&v=Y_CHWI4IXSw#t=118 which features a controlller model and mine https://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_detailpage&v=v5cy6uqC0Os#t=18 with a hand cam

Thanks! Your videos have been added!

Also, I would like to announce that frame data for DACUS timings have been added for every single character! With this now in place, you can know how to time your DACUS smashes even better!

@ TheReflexWonder : Thanks for the tip! :D

EDIT: And for anyone that is curious, Sheik cannot DACUS in Project M, as her Jump Startup time is 3 frames.

 

[Jade_Rock55]

I hate that Mewtwo can't dacus...what's his jump startup time?

 

[Thane of Blue Flames]

I hate that Mewtwo can't dacus...what's his jump startup time?

You're telling me, I had to hear about Samus after already making the thread. Ice DACUS would be so awesome ...

 

[Jade_Rock55]

I feel like changing everyone's jump startup time to 4 frames.

So I checked PSA and found that Mewtwo has a jump startup of 5 frames...maybe I read it wrong?

 

[Thane of Blue Flames]

I feel like changing everyone's jump startup time to 4 frames.

Uh

Fox

 

[Jade_Rock55]

Ok maybe not everyone...I changed samus's to 4 going to go try it.

 

[MonkUnit]

Here is everyone's JumpStart and empty landing. Empty landing is simply just jumping and then landing. You can disregard that as it does not relate to DACUS.

-------------------------------------
Character       |  JumpStart . Empty 
-------------------------------------
Bowser..........|     8      .   6   
Captain Falcon..|     4      .   4   
Charizard.......|     4      .   5   
Diddy Kong......|     4      .   4   
Donkey Kong.....|     5      .   5   
Falco...........|     5      .   4   
Fox.............|     3      .   4   
Ganondorf.......|     6      .   5   
Giga Bowser.....|     6      .   11  
Ice Climbers....|     3      .   4  
Ike.............|     5      .   4   
Ivysaur.........|     5      .   4   
Jigglypuff......|     5      .   4   
King Dedede.....|     6      .   6  
Kirby...........|     3      .   4   
Link............|     6      .   4   
Lucario.........|     3      .   4   
Lucas...........|     4      .   4   
Luigi...........|     4      .   4   
Mario...........|     4      .   4   
Marth...........|     4      .   4   
Meta Knight.....|     3      .   4   
Mewtwo..........|     5      .   5   
Mr. Game & Watch|     4      .   4   
Ness............|     4      .   4   
Olimar..........|     4      .   4   
Peach...........|     5      .   4   
Pikachu.........|     3      .   4   
Pit.............|     5      .   4   
R.O.B...........|     6      .   4   
Roy.............|     4      .   4   
Samus...........|     3      .   4   
Sheik...........|     3      .   4   
Snake...........|     5      .   4   
Sonic...........|     3      .   4   
Squirtle........|     4      .   4   
Toon Link.......|     3      .   4   
Wario...........|     5      .   4   
Wolf............|     4      .   4   
Yoshi...........|     5      .   4   
Zelda...........|     5      .   4   
Zero Suit Samus.|     4      .   4

 

[Daftatt]

I feel like squirtle's dacus is totally inferior to the hydroplaning forward u-smash, you go way further way faster.

 

[Jade_Rock55]

Thanks for that!

I thought anyone with a jumpstart of at least 4 can dacus...did anybody figure out Mewtwo's?I can do it with Snake who has 5,but not Mewtwo.

 

[ItsRainingGravy]

I thought anyone with a jumpstart of at least 4 can dacus...did anybody figure out Mewtwo's?I can do it with Snake who has 5,but not Mewtwo.

Jump Start is only half the part of DACUS smashes. The second part is dash attack momentum. Some characters dash attacks will give you a lot of momentum, and others don't. Mewtwo's doesn't (sadly ).

Also Samus can't do a DACUS, because she only has 3 Jump Start frames.

EDIT @ Daftatt: Actually, I listed Squirtle's hydroplane smash instead of his actual DACUS...since I figured it was close enough to one anyways. I just changed his input information for performing it compared to the other characters, lol

 

[ItsRainingGravy]

*snip*

Added this information to the first post. Thanks, MonkUnit!

I also find it hilarious how Giga Bowser only has 6 Jump Start frames, compared to Bowser's 8. lol

 

[Thane of Blue Flames]

Is the light press issue also a problem with the Classic Controller or Classic Controller Pro? How do you fix that if so?

 

[Falco R]

I tried getting this to work with Snake for an hour. Apparently I just can't do it. :/

 

[Fusiongt]

I tried getting this to work with Snake for an hour. Apparently I just can't do it. :/

I would say do it on an easier person first so you get the mechanics down... someone like Ganondorf, then when you know you an do it with one character you can try it again with Snake.

On a separate note, I think if Sheik got her DACUS back it would a really good thing

 

[ItsRainingGravy]

I tried getting this to work with Snake for an hour. Apparently I just can't do it. :/

Have you tried changing your controls to accommodate for DACUS? One common way you can do this is setting your L, R, or Z button to Attack...as that gives you one more frame in order to time your DACUS. Snake's DACUS is still relatively easy to do, although I do believe that the timing is slightly stricter than it was in regular Brawl (due to a Jump Start reduction most likely). Also if you have problems with immediately doing your DACUS, you can still perform a DACUS after running for a little bit. Just make sure to remember these tips:

1) It is usually better to rotate the control stick Up after mashing C-Stick down.
2) Rotating the control stick Up, as opposed to just mashing Up, yields more results.
3) Make sure that a VERY BRIEF amount of time is in between mashing C-Stick down, and mashing attack. Since this sometimes causes errors with a character's DACUS coming out.
4) Despite what note #3 says, DACUS smashes must be performed with split-second timing (even when using Attack instead of Grab). It takes a pretty long time to get adjusted to for each character, and it is still easy to make mistakes with them due to their split-second nature. DACUS smashes have to be performed at a bullet-like, yet steady and fluid pace in order to work.

My recommendation is to try DACUS smashing with these characters first, as they "feel" as though they have the easiest DACUS smashes to perform:

1) Jigglypuff
2) Lucas
3) ROB
4) Ganondorf, Ike
5) Falco, Snake
6) Wario, Link
7) Peach, Squirtle
8) G&W, Wolf, Roy, Marth

The list above is just something I quickly put together, and is subject to change. But yeah, despite what the frame data is for specific characters, some characters just feel naturally easier to perforrm their DACUS smashes with. I assume it has to do with how quick said character's dash attack comes out (plus other factors). Either way though, I would say to start practicing DACUS with Jigglypuff, and then work your way down until you can perform it with the other characters. I won't blame you if you can't do it with characters in #8 though, because those characters still give me trouble as well, lol.

If you still need help, I'll do the best I can to assist you by going into training mode with Snake, and writing a more detailed response with my findings. I hope this helps!

On a separate note, I think if Sheik got her DACUS back it would a really good thing

This would be both good and bad. Good because she gets the furthest sliding DACUS in the game back, as well as one of the strongest DACUS smashes in the game. Though it would also be bad because her Jump Start would have to increase from 3 to 4...meaning that her jumping animations comes out a frame later. This would mess up people's timings with her aerials, SHFFLs, as well as just the general fluidity and swiftness that is associated with Sheik. Sure, it is a very small change, though I would prefer Sheik to have the fluidity that she had in Melee as opposed to her having a DACUS.

Not to mention her DACUS was one of the meanest in the game...and because she's already a really solid character, she doesn't really need it. lol. She still has Boost Grabbing shenanigans though, which is a very nice alternative.

 

[SpiderMad]

I wouldn't say Squirtle's instant hydroplane Up-smash is harder than performing Ike's DACUS

 

[Falco R]

Okay.. sweet deal. Got it on my 3rd try. I was just mashing Up instead of rotating, and that made all the difference. Thanks~ :o

 

[Darkshooter]

Sweet deal indeed.

 

[Crezyte]

Finally an answer to why I wasn't previously able to DACUS with GnW lol... I'm rlly sad that this is how it was to be cuz I am not incredibly willing to change control setup but I also really want to DACUS with him (((

 

[ItsRainingGravy]

Finally an answer to why I wasn't previously able to DACUS with GnW lol... I'm rlly sad that this is how it was to be cuz I am not incredibly willing to change control setup but I also really want to DACUS with him (((

Yeah. Unfortunately, G&W is one of the hardest characters to DACUS with. Even I have problems DACUSing with him, and sometimes I wish that performing his DACUS would be easier. But, alas, that would come at the cost of slower jumps. At the very least, G&W has a Gatling Combo, which allows him to cancel the initial frames of his Dash Attack into an Up Smash.

Gatling Combo is explained here: http://www.ssbwiki.com/Dash_attack_canceled_up_smash

Okay.. sweet deal. Got it on my 3rd try. I was just mashing Up instead of rotating, and that made all the difference. Thanks~ :o

You are very welcome!

In response to this post, I changed the term "M-Up" (Move Up) to "R-Up" (Rotate Up) for better clarity on how to perform a DACUS.

I could add data for Gatling Combos for this topic on my second post, if anyone is interested.

 

[Prince Longstrok]

As a Ganon player, i am incredibly happy that I can practice and try to master his DACUS.
Still not good enough at it to use in a real match, but I spose hours of just doing it in training is the way to get god with it.

 

[ItsRainingGravy]

As a small note for Ganon/Peach players, the millisecond pause mentions I put down on their DACUS inputs is what I personally found to be the most effective way in order to perform their DACUS Smashes, as opposed to most other characters that can DACUS. But unlike most notes in the first post, those mentions are mostly just my opinion. If their DACUS Smashes are still hard to time for you, you can try to forgo the millisecond pause mentions, and experiment until you find the best method that works for you to consistently DACUS with them. Good luck to all players who are practicing/learning DACUS Smashes!

 

[Hulter]

Very nice post, gravy rain, but it's "perform", not "preform". I'm sorry, but it was bothering me a great deal.

 

[SpiderMad]

SB and Metroid need to do record their hands of how they so quickly go into Claw and back to perform it using A

 

[Chesstiger2612]

You forgot to mention Giga Bowsers dacus

 

[ItsRainingGravy]

Very nice post, gravy rain, but it's "perform", not "preform". I'm sorry, but it was bothering me a great deal.

Apologies on the spelling errors. This error has been fixed on all posts, lol

You forgot to mention Giga Bowsers dacus

I'll take a look at it when I get back from work, and I'll add it if it is significant enough. lol

 

[Chesstiger2612]

I seem to get different DACUS slide lengths sometimes with the same character. Am I doing something wrong or does it happen if you cancel the dash attack at different frames into the up-smash because the slide is produced from the dash attacks momentum. If this is the issue, on which frames do you get the biggest slides (pretty obvious for 4-frame jumpers, but not that much for 5- or 6-frame jumpers)

 

[9bit]

This thread is great

But I'm actually relieved none of my characters can DACUS... I really don't need another tactic floating around in the back of my brain, needing to be able to be pulled out and used at any moment. PM IS TOO DEEP, deepest game ever, too much for human brain aaaaaaaaaaaaah

 

[Chesstiger2612]

Maybe it is just me but I always like if my characters are able to pull off hard techniques. It will first appear negative because its harder to master the character but then it becomes a good thing because there is still something to learn. Deep games are best!

 

[MonkUnit]

max distance on character's who can dacus would be to dacus on the frame where your dash attack moves you the farthest (this gives it a good momentum)

 

[Spralwers]

Learn to switch to claw style if you don't wanna change controller schemes. It's a little awkward, but literally all you have to is curl your index finger over the A button and move your thumb to the C stick. You can keep the rest of the way your hands/fingers are positioned exactly the same. Then when you're done, just move your thumb and index finger back to their regular positions. Again, it's a little awkward, but nothing you can't get the hang of messing around in practice mode, versus the cpu, and friendlies. Now learning to play claw style in order to get frame perfect aerials out of jump more consistently, that's tricky.

 

[Prince Longstrok]

Since it seems relevant, to any of you Ganons in training, if you are having trouble with DACUSing, try to be more smooth and non- spastic with it!

Dont slame the c-stick jnto up+attack as fast as you can, try doing it calmingly and tender- almost as if you are making sweet love to it.

As you dot it more, you will eventually get your muscles trained to the exact right time that works for you.

 

[AcousticAdrian]

The C-Stick doesn't have to be reset to the neutral position. You can just push and hold the c-stick down and still perform a DACUS, as long as you press/hold A at the right time.

 

[DiZZ]

sonic has a frame 2 dacus

 

[Jackson]

So to do Falco's DACUS I have to hold up and A? Going from cstick down to a is akward, but i guess ill have to get used to it. I wish it was like Snake's DACUS in brawl where you could use Z, but control stick up + z results in a grab in PM, not a charged Usmash.