D3 Vs. Link matchup?

[protomanfan25]

Hi guys, D3 main. I'm not the most competitive player, but I do play with no items, neutral stages etc.
Overall, I like to think i'm decent at the game, and play relatively well against most characters (my -49 skill ranking on nintendo dojo aside). But there is one match up I always struggle with. Link on FD.
Usually, I approach with a gordo (direction varies based on how i'm feeling at the moment of side b) then with an attack (normally f-tilt or jab). But Link has multiple reflect options! Not only does his boomerang and arrows deflect gordos, but his smashes and jabs do too!
Of course, the answer is to stop gordos right? Doesn't work for me. Usually, links are very "Spam-ey", but not in a punishable way. They will throw out every projectile they got, (most of which hitting D3 due to his large hit box), and roll out of any follow up I've got. Right after their roll, before I can hit them, the side smash come out and kills me hard.
Am I just approaching badly? Or is there another option i'm missing?

 

[toadster101]

It's a really, really, REALLY bad matchup. Obviously it's still possible to win, but you have to play very patiently or you WILL lose. Your best bet is to lure him to the edge of the stage and try gimping him. Link's recovery is pretty awful, and his aerials are slow. You can nail him with a few surprise short hop back airs while he spams his projectiles, but otherwise approach with caution. I know this isn't necessarily the advice you wanted to hear, but I too have been struggling against Link since October.

 

[KeithTheGeek]

On the issue with rolling, and I'm assuming you're playing on For Glory because you specifically mentioned FD, it's definitely tricky to deal with thanks to the input delay. You can catch most characters out of a roll with Dedede's down smash, but obviously you have to predict the roll and it really only works if they roll into you.

For Link in particular, there's not much you can do about the projectiles. You probably want to keep in your shield a lot while working your way through the pressure. If you get close and expect them to roll, maybe you can wait it out and catch them out of the roll. The thing with Link's fmash is that it has two hits, so you'll need to deal with both hits- don't drop your shield after the first one if you block it or you WILL get hit by the second swing.

Just as an FYI, Gordo in general is really easy to reflect. Link in particular is amazing at it, but really you shouldn't be relying on it so much for approaching or creating pressure. It's an easy trap to fall into, as it's a mistake I definitely make all the time, but it's more of a punish tool/edge-guarding option than anything else.

 

[drumhead]

Honestly Link is one of my better matchups for whatever reason. I usually do a direct gordo hit if they try to bow in my approach (aerial gordo) that def opens them up to be punished. If they don't bow, then its not that hard to approach him. The general FG link game play that you are describing is projectile span. then punish predictable approach with forward smash/dash attack/grab, rinse repeat. I would 1st recommend to not roll towards link. Rolling is very easy to predict, and its very easy for link to punish you out of a roll. so stop that. short hoping/shielding/spotdodging much safer. then once you are in a comfy distance from him, you can punish projectiles and react to his attacks safely.


To me it sounds like as a DDD player, you might be overdepending on gordo in general. Be careful with that.

 

[Fatmanonice]

Hi guys, D3 main. I'm not the most competitive player, but I do play with no items, neutral stages etc.
Overall, I like to think i'm decent at the game, and play relatively well against most characters (my -49 skill ranking on nintendo dojo aside). But there is one match up I always struggle with. Link on FD.
Usually, I approach with a gordo (direction varies based on how i'm feeling at the moment of side b) then with an attack (normally f-tilt or jab). But Link has multiple reflect options! Not only does his boomerang and arrows deflect gordos, but his smashes and jabs do too!
Of course, the answer is to stop gordos right? Doesn't work for me. Usually, links are very "Spam-ey", but not in a punishable way. They will throw out every projectile they got, (most of which hitting D3 due to his large hit box), and roll out of any follow up I've got. Right after their roll, before I can hit them, the side smash come out and kills me hard.
Am I just approaching badly? Or is there another option i'm missing?

Gordos for Dedede are a terrible approach option. If anything, they should be used defensively or for the sake of stage control. For example, a common tactic is to throw out a slow bouncing one (pull back on the control stick just before you hit the gordo) when they are on the edge and then laying in wait with a fsmash or ftilt because it covers most of their options and will usually result in a KO if they get up on the stage or try a get up attack as a knee jerk reaction. For gordos, keep in mind that Dedede can regrab them and/or reflect them back. I find the easiest way to do this is by using his dtilt but be aware that it can be volleyed back and forth until it disappears.

As for Link, it is a match up about patience, especially with his reach and projectiles. Trying baiting grabs and jabs from him and then come in with grabs of your own. Dthrow leads to a lot of great options and throwing out a uthrow every once in awhile will give you can idea of how Link will act when he's up in the air. As already mentioned, gordos are a terrible offensive option in this matchup and Link has some of the most reliable moves for deflecting them. The boomerang, arrows, jab, and ftilt can easily reflect them with little practice compared to most moves so it's best to save it when he's trying to come back to the stage. Off stage, Dedede has the advantage. His fair and bair have decent range and Link's still relatively weak recovery give him only a small margin of error when trying to come back to the stage so take full advantage of this. As for Link's fmash, it's easy to punish as Dedede. Either shield grab them out of it or ftilt after they've done the second swipe.

 

[Banjo-Kazooie]

My short tips considering my brother mains Link:
1. Never throw a Gordo from the ground. Link's projectile barrage will never let one through. Attempt to full jump and Gordo over him while he is charging an arrow if anything.
2. Aerial assault is particulary hard against him because his Usmash, Utilt and Bombs cover his air space really well. Best approach is run to him while blocking all the projectiles and look for a missed dash attack or Fsmash to Ftilt or grab him and get your preferred follow up (just careful with his Dair when he is above you, make sure your Uair hammer gets to him first).

 

[ndayday]

All smart Links will abuse projectiles against Dedede, getting in extra damage, keeping you away, and then following up. Like everyone else said gordos are not going to work from a neutral standpoint or while there are 20 things out there.
My goal in this matchup is to shield the projectiles, jump over them, and work my way towards Link. If you can grab onto the bombs, more power to you. I would definitely say that in general, stay grounded when approaching because you're an incoming blimp. If you do get an aerial opening fast fall nair is pretty great and can lead into uair.

Once you're in range of Link, expect grabs to keep you away. Probably the best tool you have for breaking a camping Link out of his shell is ftilt and dtilt, it'll pop them up and once they're in the air you can punish their landing with whatever is appropriate. If you can get them offstage, that's a great position. Watch what they do when you get close...in the case of a rolling Link, just dsmash. And if they fsmash after that, you can shield the first hit and grab them before the second comes out, or at least shield and roll behind them for a free grab. Shielding the entire thing is wasted potential imo.
Always watch the boomerang, as sometimes it can actually help you. Purposely fall into it on its way back and you can get a sliding ftilt, uair, dsmash, whatever.

I've hardly played a single playstyle Link, some are very aggressive and use projectiles as a way to get some extra damage, while some will just camp the entire game and use projectiles to lead into things. The more the "spam" slider goes to full-on-barrage-of-stuff the more I stay on the ground, walk, roll, and hit with ftilt. This is a 100% worse against Toon Link imo.

And to finish, gordos are good for following up them being hit to the ground, recovering, anti-recovery, and if there are OPENINGS. Going as far to say that you should never use them against a projectile character is too much, just be cautious with them and remember that you can hit them back/shield them if you misjudge. Try short bouncing them near the ledge when they're getting back up and watch to see how they recover when you do. If they wait there for it to disappear, they are no longer invincible and can get hit with dtilt, ftilt, etc. If they roll back, keep that in mind because that's a free dsmash. if they jump, freaking hit them. normal getup is a grab. getup attack is a shield and then grab (and is actually probably the best option because it will likely hit the gordo).

 

[Oblivion129]

I have experience against several Link players from the boards here.

About gordos: You're going to want to jump and aim it so it hits without bouncing. They'll be charging an arrow or blocking, but really hard for them to reflect it.
I also normally go for gordos when the Link is offstage. Either to have it bounce near the ledge or to hit their recovery.

On-stage: Link has good range. You'll want to bait out an attack and hit him there with whatever you can punish with. Remember your options: Dtilt, Grab, Ftilt, Dsmash, etc.

In the air: DDD is one of the few characters that can beat Link's Dair, so you can go ahead and use Uair on it and go for the juggle. Other aerials? I'm not sure. I don't really go for them because of how unsafe they are unless it's for a follow-up or gimping. You can punish Link's landing easier, so you don't need to over-commit with an aerial.

Try short bouncing them near the ledge when they're getting back up and watch to see how they recover when you do. If they wait there for it to disappear, they are no longer invincible and can get hit with dtilt, ftilt, etc. If they roll back, keep that in mind because that's a free dsmash. if they jump, freaking hit them. normal getup is a grab. getup attack is a shield and then grab (and is actually probably the best option because it will likely hit the gordo).

Yes this is really good against most characters. With a Gordo bouncing on the ledge, you have a lot of options. I've pulled Dash Attack on so many players. Even charging Fsmash works because they'll sometimes wait for the gordo to disappear.

Dsmash punish and reading what they'll do on the ledge is how I get most of my KOs on Link.

I don't have a capture card but I'd like to pull up a few replays somehow. Maybe later.