D-Games Diplomacy 2014: Revengeance Reloaded II - Game Over! Raziek wins as Turkey! BSL 2nd place!

[BSL]

people not finalizing makes me salty

 

[Raziek]

Spring 06 Orders

FRANCE
Edinburgh MOVE Norwegian Sea -> resolved
Tuscany SUPPORT Marseilles to Piedmont -> resolved
London MOVE North Sea -> resolved
Marseilles MOVE Piedmont -> resolved
Paris MOVE Burgundy -> resolved
Brest MOVE Mid-Atlantic Ocean -> resolved
Tyrrhenian Sea SUPPORT Naples to Rome -> resolved
Holland SUPPORT Belgium to Ruhr -> resolved
Spain MOVE Portugal -> Bounced
Belgium MOVE Ruhr -> resolved

ITALY
Piedmont MOVE Tuscany -> Destroyed by A Marseilles - Piedmont
Apulia MOVE Naples -> resolved
Portugal HOLD -> resolved
Rome SUPPORT Apulia to Naples -> Destroyed by F Naples - Rome

GERMANY
Denmark MOVE Kiel -> resolved
Ruhr SUPPORT Denmark to Kiel -> Dislodged by A Belgium - Ruhr
Bohemia MOVE Silesia -> Bounced

TURKEY
Sevastopol MOVE Moscow -> resolved
Albania MOVE Ionian Sea -> resolved
Rumania MOVE Ukraine -> resolved
Constantinople MOVE Aegean Sea -> resolved
Galicia MOVE Warsaw -> resolved
Ankara MOVE Sevastopol -> resolved
Trieste SUPPORT Budapest to Vienna -> resolved
Naples MOVE Rome -> resolved
Black Sea CONVOY Ankara to Sevastopol -> resolved
Adriatic Sea MOVE Venice -> resolved
Budapest MOVE Vienna -> resolved

RUSSIA
Norway HOLD -> resolved
Sweden HOLD -> resolved
Silesia HOLD -> resolved
Baltic Sea HOLD -> resolved
Berlin HOLD -> resolved
Tyrolia HOLD -> resolved

Spring Retreat

GERMANY
Ruhr RETREAT Munich -> resolved

 

[BSL]

please finalize this game will never end

 

[Raziek]

Fall 1906 Moves

FRANCE
Norwegian Sea MOVE Norway -> Bounced
Tyrrhenian Sea SUPPORT Ionian Sea to Naples -> resolved
North Sea SUPPORT Norwegian Sea to Norway -> Supported unit has failed
Tuscany MOVE Venice -> Bounced
Holland MOVE Kiel -> Bounced
Piedmont SUPPORT Tuscany to Venice -> Support cut by A Tyrolia - Piedmont
Burgundy MOVE Munich -> resolved
Mid-Atlantic Ocean MOVE Portugal -> resolved
Ruhr SUPPORT Burgundy to Munich -> resolved
Spain SUPPORT Mid-Atlantic Ocean to Portugal -> resolved

ITALY
Portugal HOLD -> Destroyed by F Mid-Atlantic Ocean - Portugal
Naples MOVE Rome -> Dislodged by F Ionian Sea - Naples

GERMANY
Kiel MOVE Denmark -> Bounced
Bohemia MOVE Galicia -> Attack broken by A Ukraine - Galicia
Munich MOVE Bohemia -> Destroyed by A Burgundy - Munich

TURKEY
Ionian Sea MOVE Naples -> resolved
Warsaw SUPPORT Ukraine to Galicia -> resolved
Ukraine MOVE Galicia -> resolved
Aegean Sea MOVE Ionian Sea -> resolved
Moscow MOVE St. Petersburg -> resolved
Sevastopol MOVE Moscow -> resolved
Trieste SUPPORT Venice to hold -> resolved
Rome SUPPORT Ionian Sea to Naples -> resolved
Black Sea HOLD -> resolved
Venice HOLD -> resolved
Vienna SUPPORT Ukraine to Galicia -> resolved

RUSSIA
Norway HOLD -> resolved
Sweden SUPPORT Norway to hold -> resolved
Silesia SUPPORT Munich to hold -> Supported order does not correspond
Baltic Sea MOVE Denmark -> Bounced
Berlin SUPPORT Kiel to hold -> Supported order does not correspond
Tyrolia MOVE Piedmont -> Bounced

Fall 1906 Builds

FRANCE
BUILD army Paris -> resolved
BUILD army Brest -> resolved

TURKEY
BUILD fleet Smyrna -> resolved
BUILD army Constantinople -> resolved
BUILD army Ankara -> resolved

RUSSIA
Norway DESTROY -> resolved
Berlin DESTROY -> resolved
Baltic Sea DESTROY -> resolved

Current Gamestate: Spring 1907

 

[Raziek]

Spring 1907 Moves

FRANCE
Norwegian Sea MOVE Norway -> Attack broken by A St. Petersburg - Norway
Holland MOVE Denmark -> resolved
North Sea CONVOY Holland to Denmark -> resolved
Tuscany MOVE Venice -> resolved
Piedmont SUPPORT Tuscany to Venice -> resolved
Munich MOVE Kiel -> resolved
Portugal MOVE Western Mediterranean -> Illegal order replaced with Hold order
Paris MOVE Burgundy -> resolved
Brest MOVE Picardy -> resolved
Tyrrhenian Sea MOVE Ionian Sea -> Dislodged by F Naples - Tyrrhenian Sea
Ruhr SUPPORT Munich to Kiel -> resolved
Spain MOVE Marseilles -> resolved

GERMANY
Kiel MOVE Berlin -> resolved
Bohemia MOVE Silesia -> resolved

TURKEY
Black Sea CONVOY Ankara to Rumania -> resolved
Trieste MOVE Venice -> Attack broken by A Tuscany - Venice
Moscow MOVE St. Petersburg -> resolved
Venice MOVE Apulia -> resolved
Smyrna MOVE Aegean Sea -> resolved
Constantinople MOVE Bulgaria -> resolved
Vienna SUPPORT Tyrolia to hold -> resolved
Ionian Sea SUPPORT Naples to Tyrrhenian Sea -> resolved
Galicia MOVE Warsaw -> resolved
St. Petersburg MOVE Norway -> resolved
Naples MOVE Tyrrhenian Sea -> resolved
Warsaw MOVE Prussia -> resolved
Rome MOVE Tuscany -> resolved
Ankara MOVE Rumania -> resolved

RUSSIA
Sweden SUPPORT St. Petersburg to Norway -> resolved
Silesia MOVE Munich -> resolved
Tyrolia SUPPORT Venice to hold -> Supported order does not correspond

 

[Raziek]

@ Handorin @ #HBC | Ryker @ BSL

The game proooobably ends this turn, so let's all try to finalize ASAP.

 

[Handorin]

Yo, kill Russia and let me three way tie.

 

[BSL]

I would be about it but that lessens my trading card reward.

 

[Handorin]

You don't have to know that. >_>

 

[Handorin]

Game over though. Good game guys.

 

[BSL]

Man I forgot 18 centers was an endgame :/

 

[rid****ulous]

Who won doe?

 

[Raziek]

Fall 1907 Moves

FRANCE
Norwegian Sea MOVE Norway -> Bounced
Denmark SUPPORT Ruhr to Kiel -> resolved
North Sea SUPPORT Norwegian Sea to Norway -> Supported unit has failed
Venice SUPPORT Piedmont to Tyrolia -> Support cut by A Trieste - Venice
Piedmont MOVE Tyrolia -> Bounced
Kiel MOVE Munich -> resolved
Portugal MOVE Spain (South Coast) -> resolved
Burgundy SUPPORT Kiel to Munich -> resolved
Picardy MOVE Belgium -> resolved
Rome HOLD -> Destroyed by F Tuscany - Rome
Ruhr MOVE Kiel -> resolved
Marseilles MOVE Piedmont -> Bounced

GERMANY
Berlin HOLD -> resolved
Silesia SUPPORT Berlin to hold -> Dislodged by A Warsaw - Silesia

TURKEY
Black Sea HOLD -> resolved
Trieste MOVE Venice -> Bounced
St. Petersburg SUPPORT Norway to hold -> resolved
Apulia MOVE Naples -> resolved
Aegean Sea MOVE Ionian Sea -> resolved
Bulgaria MOVE Greece -> resolved
Vienna HOLD -> resolved
Ionian Sea MOVE Tunis -> resolved
Warsaw MOVE Silesia -> resolved
Norway HOLD -> resolved
Tyrrhenian Sea SUPPORT Tuscany to Rome -> resolved
Prussia SUPPORT Warsaw to Silesia -> resolved
Tuscany MOVE Rome -> resolved
Rumania MOVE Galicia -> resolved

RUSSIA
Sweden SUPPORT Norway to hold -> resolved
Munich SUPPORT Tyrolia to hold -> Dislodged by A Kiel - Munich
Tyrolia SUPPORT Trieste to Venice -> Support cut by A Piedmont - Tyrolia

 

[Raziek]

Final Standings

Winner: @ Raziek as Turkey (18 centers)

2nd Place: @ BSL as France (14 centers)

3rd-place Tie: @ Handorin as Germany & @ #HBC | Ryker as Russia (1 center)

5th Place: @ Jdietz43 as Italy (Eliminated Fall 1906)

6th Place: @ #HBC | Red Ryu as England (Eliminated Fall 1905)

7th Place: @ Overswarm as Austria (Eliminated Fall 1904)

 

[#HBC | Red Ryu]

Well it's not last place? right?

 

[Raziek]

Here's my mid-game thoughts QT. I stopped using it after I snow-balled into a really definite lead around when I got 13 centers or so, but I included pretty detailed plans on the time around when I stabbed Ryker.

I'll write up a more detailed thoughts post later on.

Spoiler

Spring 1901

Negotiating DMZ with Ryker. Thinking about how to best deal with OS/Ryker combo. Probably going to end up working with Ryker. Will likely talk to JDietz at some point.

Ryker and I have decided on going with the "Ship of the Desert" play to make it look like we're fighting each other. It will be entertaining.

-------------

Feb 19th

Decided to re-think the SoD play in favor of a more overt "**** this lying Austria" play. Dietz is supposed to be stabbing OS in Trieste early, so we've gone with a play to Rumania.

--------------

March 17th - Fall 1903

Forgot about this thing! The plan to ram OS went off without a hitch, and he fortunately decided that he was going to do whatever he can to make Dietz lose, which is great for me.

Ryker and I have been co-operating to the extent that we can, which at this point is basically just bouncing. OS helped me into the Ionian Sea, which was huge, and is now acting as a buffer between Ryker and I in Budapest. This is great for me, because it protects me from a stab, but not Ryker.

I've been in extensive contact with BSL (replaced Soup) about an initiative against Italy by sea, with the intent of me betraying Ryker soon. This would see Brad and I benefiting by warring on opposite sides of the map. He in the North with Ryker, and myself in the south.

Xatres has NMR'd twice and is now being replaced, which has caused some significant swings in power. Brad is in position to pick up Liverpool for free, regardless of RR replacing in. Ryker WOULD have been able to grab Edinburgh, but now will not be able to, as I'm definitely going to tell RR to bounce him.

England will be at 2 centres, but can at least be a thorn in Ryker's side a little longer.

Ryker has fortunately been making only marginal progress against Handorin, failing to grab Denmark a few turns in a row.

The Stab

I plan to stab Ryker very soon, as he will be the next major place for me to make headway. Thanks to some conniving, I managed to talk Ryker into moving to Rumania with his fleet, and then intentionally ****ing up a move to allow me into the Black Sea. At the time, this benefited our alliance, but I've of course held onto it both to maintain appearances and facilitate the coming stab.

If I can talk Ryker into attacking Vienna, which he has no reason not to do, then OS's support will get me into Trieste. This is also possible even if Ryker does not, but it would force JDietz to guess on if it is the OS/Ryker combo attacking Vienna, or the Raz/OS combo attacking Trieste.

If the Serbia army successfully gets into Trieste, the Bulgaria army will be following into Serbia behind it, netting me two centres, bringing me up to 7.

Instead of bouncing in Sevastopol as Ryker and I have been doing, I would instead move my Black Sea fleet to Rumania, netting a 3rd centre, bringing me up to 8, and Ryker down to 6. At that point, I build a second fleet in Ankara, an army in Constantinople, and a fleet in Smyrna. Probably.

At that point I control Trieste, Serbia and Rumania, but Rumania would be with a fleet. Problem is, he could reclaim it pretty quick with aid from Galicia or OS in Budapest. That might get messier than I want it to, and could allow Dietz to break into Budapest and cause trouble.

I may have to wait for next turn, when I have better positioning and can immediately defend the stab in Rumania. Ryker won't pick up a build, so I can be assured he won't be building in Sevastopol even if he does suspect it.

The southern situation with Brad and Dietz is a real mess that's going to result in a bunch of bounces, in all likelihood.

Dietz is in Piedmont, WestMed, Naples, and Apuila. Brad is in GoL and Spain, and I am in the Ionian Sea and Greece.

The Greece fleet is going to move to Albania for positioning and supporting the newly acquired Trieste. I could try to fill into the Ionian Sea, but that seems incredibly likely to just bounce. Last turn Dietz tried to move Naples-Tyr and Apuila-Naples, so it stands to reason that the Apuila fleet will just go to Naples. Venice is safe, and neither the Adriatic nor the Ionian is a logical move.

If he tries to go to the Ionian, then I can simply retreat to the Tyrrhenian, or Tunis, whichever he did not attempt to move to. So I'm pretty much guaranteed to keep the Ionian or be somewhere more threatening, with him being down a fleet next turn.

Naples is thus not a valid choice for my Ionian fleet.

If I go to the Tyrrhenian and bounce with Naples, then neither of his fleet move anywhere, but WestMed could cover Tunis, or take Spain if Dietz has balls of steel.

If I instead attempt Tunis, then I could get bounced by WestMed, which would allow him to successfully rotate to the Tyrrhenian unless Brad ALSO bounced him.

Horrible realization. Dietz has a defensive option select, if he realizes it. If Vienna & Trieste both attack
Case 1

Ionian-Tunis
Naples-Tyrrhenian
WestMed-Tunis
Spain Holds
Piedmont - Marseilles
GoL - Marseilles

Bounce in Marseilles. Bounce in Tunis, Naples moves to Tyr, Apuila moves to Naples.

Net Centre change:

Raz - 0 (+2)
Deitz -

Fall 1904:

So, Dietz obviously didn;t see it coming, and I gained Trieste. Made good progress in the southern areas. In strong position right now.

[1:45:57 PM] DRB | Raziek: Sorry Gheb, this is the turn your country falls
[1:46:25 PM] Gabriel: it fell the moment OS laid his hands on it! <_<
[1:46:40 PM] DRB | Raziek: Yeah but I mean it's gonna be out of the game for good
[1:46:53 PM] Gabriel: oh wellz
[1:47:04 PM] DRB | Raziek: He only survives if Ryker support-holds it, which he has no reason to do
[1:47:15 PM] Gabriel: doesn't look like England or Germany will make it too much longer either
[1:47:29 PM] DRB | Raziek: Germany will probably break even this turn
[1:47:35 PM] DRB | Raziek: but yeah, he's not looking good
[1:48:08 PM] Gabriel: i noticed that ryker didn't bounce your move into sevastopol
[1:48:14 PM] Gabriel: what's up with that?
[1:48:22 PM] DRB | Raziek: Ryker didn't submit any moves, because he's a dummy
[1:48:28 PM] Gabriel: lel
[1:48:29 PM] DRB | Raziek: had a whole week, left it to the last minute
[1:48:39 PM] Gabriel: good for you
[1:48:47 PM] Gabriel: but also good for brad
[1:49:19 PM] DRB | Raziek: I'm keeping Sevastopol, prooooobably getting Budapest, and possibly also Rumania
[1:49:31 PM] DRB | Raziek: Well, I'll definitely get one or the other
[1:49:39 PM] DRB | Raziek: but I could get all 3
[1:49:51 PM] DRB | Raziek: If I can convince Ryker not to use Galicia to support-hold
[1:50:16 PM] DRB | Raziek: Probably going to try to sell him that I'm going to give him Budapest
[1:50:22 PM] DRB | Raziek: and then take it myself anyway
[1:50:58 PM] DRB | Raziek: I COULD bounce Brad out of Tunis, but that just strains tensions with an ally and gains me nothing. I'm just going to take it from Brad NEXT turn instead.
[1:51:18 PM] DRB | Raziek: Let him have it this turn, then sneak into it behind him as he leaves it next turn
[1:51:59 PM] Gabriel: well
[1:52:23 PM] Gabriel: assuming that you will face open confrontation with ryker soon
[1:52:43 PM] DRB | Raziek: I will be in open confrontation with him after this turn.
[1:53:15 PM] Gabriel: wouldn't it be wise to let Dietz do his thing or even support him somewhat?
[1:53:36 PM] Gabriel: otherwise Brad can just pick up Italy, England and Germany in the next few turns
[1:53:44 PM] Gabriel: and from then on he'd probably overpower both you and Ryker
[1:54:06 PM] DRB | Raziek: Not really. Dietz does not benefit at all from an Alliance with me or Brad, so he could only turn to Ryker to work together against me or Brad
[1:54:40 PM] Gabriel: so you're left with Hando as a potential alliance partner?
[1:54:47 PM] DRB | Raziek: Brad does not have as strong a footing as he wants vs. Dietz yet, and Hando is putting up resistance there.
[1:55:00 PM] DRB | Raziek: And yes, though it would be purely philosophical for the moment
[1:55:15 PM] DRB | Raziek: we cannot directly support each other, but me attacking Ryker takes pressure off of Hando
[1:55:40 PM] Gabriel: so with Ryker missing his turn and not foreseeing your move against him
[1:55:55 PM] Gabriel: that still leaves Brad with the best cards for the moment, right?
[1:56:10 PM] Gabriel: with you probably overpowering ryker next turn?
[1:56:31 PM] DRB | Raziek: Nah, I'm ahead of Brad right now
[1:57:01 PM] DRB | Raziek: We have the same number of centres, but my positioning is way better and I'm picking up at minimum 2 more this turn
[1:57:14 PM] Gabriel: his direct opposition is weaker though
[1:57:28 PM] DRB | Raziek: Yes, but his forces in those areas are not sufficient to overpower
[1:57:38 PM] DRB | Raziek: Ruy only has 2 units, but Brad only has the 2 fleets there
[1:57:50 PM] DRB | Raziek: Hando only has 4, but Brad only has the 2 armies there
[1:58:01 PM] DRB | Raziek: Dietz has 5, but Brad only has the army and fleet
[1:58:07 PM] DRB | Raziek: He's fighting on three fronts
[1:58:17 PM] DRB | Raziek: Where I fight only on two, Ryker & Dietz
[1:59:21 PM] Gabriel: so basically, all you have to do is make sure that Brad doesn't conquer german territory too fast and that you conquer italy before he does
[1:59:23 PM] DRB | Raziek: Once I have Sevastopol I'm going to build an Army in Ankara, and then perform a rotation where I do Sevastopol fleet -> Black Sea, Armenia -> Sevastopol. Sevastopol probably bounces, but then Black Sea supports it in.
[1:59:26 PM] DRB | Raziek: Correct!
[1:59:31 PM] Gabriel: and fight off ryker in the meantime
[2:00:11 PM] DRB | Raziek: hmm, ****. I just realized a flaw in my plan
[2:00:22 PM] DRB | Raziek: If I force Ryker out of Rumania, he goes into the Black Sea.
[2:00:45 PM] DRB | Raziek: I need to set up Fleet Constantinople to facilitate the rotation
[2:01:02 PM | Edited 2:01:06 PM] DRB | Raziek: So Aegean -> Constantinople, instead of Greece.
[2:01:15 PM] DRB | Raziek: That way I can force him out of the Black Sea.

April 7th, 1904 Retreat

Went for the triple, and succeeded. Ryker believed that I was going to help him into Galicia and moved accordingly. I have seized Sevastopol, Rumania, and Budapest, all in one fell swoop.

3 builds. Building a fleet in either Ankara or Constantinople, so I can eliminate Ryker from the Black Sea. (If he retreats to it.) Probably Fleet Ankara, Armies in Constantinople and Smyrna. Smyra will move to Armenia, Ankara will support Sevastopol into Black Sea (or vice versa), Constantinople will hold, or move to Bulgaria. Will need to make all areas contested in some manner.

Brad guessed wrong on Portugal/Spain, which means Dietz still has 5, instead of being down to 4. Not awful. Stalls Brad a bit, which is currently more important.

Ryker is likely going to reach to Dietz for help now, which could be a problem. Will see how the situation develops.

April 14th, 1905 Spring

Ryker kept the Black Sea as expected, choosing to destroy his Denmark unit for reasons unknown to me. I built as planned, with Fleet Ankara, Armies in Con/Smy. The plan for this turn is primarily repositioning.

In order to destroy the Black Sea fleet, I am executing the following set of moves:

Ankara support Sevastopol to Black Sea
Sev - Bla
Smyrna to Armenia
Constantinople to Bulgaria
Greece to Bulgaria (Deliberate bounce contests Bulgaria AND Constantinople)
Rumania support Budapest to Galicia.
Budapest to Galicia.

This means that Black Sea will have nowhere to go, and any support it tries to provide will be cut. It could only survive if it went to Rumania, but it cannot do that, as Budapest is cutting Galicia's possible support.

The variable for this turn is Dietz. Because Budapest is moving to Galicia, I must either choose to cover Budapest with Serbia, or use Serbia to support-hold Trieste from a possible Venice + Vienna attack. I am choosing to support-hold Trieste, as that would be the harder position to recover from.

I will only lose Trieste if Brad betrays me, and Dietz would have to predict that I will be leaving Budapest uncovered, which would be questionable, given how easily I could support it.

Once I've destroyed the Black Sea, I can finish rotating my forces around and prep for an assault on Moscow/Warsaw next turn.

April 17th, 2014 - Fall 1905

Spring's results are a mixed bag.

The Good - Plan to destroy Ryker's Black Sea fleet went off without a hitch. He attempted to move to Rumania, which I had accounted for and destroyed him. Dietz has successfully been further disrupted by Brad muscling into Venice, and Brad is being further disrupted by Dietz being in Portugal and Piedmont.

The Bad - Ryker for sure gets a build in Moscow at the end of this turn. Worst-case, he also gets one in Warsaw, should he retain Munich and NOT lose Denmark. Handorin has essentially been completely dismembered. After this turn, he will hold either Kiel or Munich, not both, most likely. Brad, while disrupted, has 3 potential centers he's picking up this turn. Holland (Guaranteed), Venice/Rome, and possibly London, meaning he'll be sitting at 9, maybe 10. It is possible for him to lose Marseilles or Spain, which would keep him at 8/9.

My Options

Several moves are self-explanatory.

ARM - SEV
ANK - CON
CON - RUM
BLA Convoy CON - RUM

That encompasses the previously planned-for rotation of forces.

The rest comes down to positioning on the respective fronts. I cannot push into Galicia without allowing Ryker to retreat into the currently vacant Vienna, so that's out. Can't count on Handorin attempting to move there instead of reclaiming Munich. So....

RUM - UKR.

Budapest shall move for Vienna. If successful, free build! If not, I bounced Dietz, Hando, or Ryker out of it, and covered Budapest in the process.

BUD - VIE

Dietz has no reason to go to the Adriatic, so this is my chance to rotate there. Trieste can fill in there, and Serbia moves up into Trieste.

TRI - ADR
SER - TRI

That leaves the Ionian Sea, and Greece.

Ionian has 3 main options. Attack Naples, attack Tunis, or attack the Tyrrhenian.

Attacking the Tyrrhenian will almost certainly fail due to bouncing with Brad, so that's out.

Attacking Tunis is a big red '**** you' to Brad, and I'm not quite in the position where I want to do that yet.

So I guess that leaves Naples by default.

ION - NAP

Greece can move to Albania, to set up for covering Trieste, or it can go to the Aegean for a Spring convoy into Tunis/Italy. Albania makes much more sense, I can defend 3 areas of my front from there.

GRE - ALB

Cool.

 

[BSL]

I told you Ryker you big idiot

 

[Jdietz43]

My only regret is Ryker. We could have definitely had Raz if he was on top of it and didn't NMR on several occassions.

I'll spare everyone my inner monologue lol, it's... so so long.

 

[Raziek]

Alright, so here are my player-specific thoughts and comments on play/misplay:

@ #HBC | Ryker : You let me have the Black Sea. I don't care how much you trusted me, I don't care how turbo-bro we were, you let me have the Black Sea. That facilitated my entire mid-game advantage over you and forcing your fleet to remain in Rumania was the entire reason I was able to stab you but not be stabbed back. With OS in Budapest, I was completely protected in Bulgaria/Serbia and was able to expand without fear.

That was really your only major misplay, as it's what led directly to me being able to stab you. Otherwise, you played well in convincing Xatres and Handorin to let you walk into Scandanavia essentially for free.

@ Handorin : I don't think Germany should EVER let Russia into Sweden in 1901. There's no possible benefit to Germany as a result. He can't use Sweden to help you into anywhere else (as you have to expose Denmark to be able to attack Norway) and it just lets Russia gets to his mid-game (where he attacks Germany) even faster.

If a unit is going to Hold, have it support-hold something else if possible. It's functionally the same, but makes it even harder to break a defensive line.

There were also a number of confusing plays, like Kiel holding in Spring 1902 instead of moving to Holland to cover it, and repeatedly attempting to move to the North Sea when Ryker was the larger threat. (That's what allowed him to rotate into Sweden in Fall 1902)

@ Overswarm : Honestly, I feel like you knew what you were doing in general. But I feel like you assumed that Ryker, Dietz and I would buy the sweet-talk simply as a result of inexperience. The grand majority of what you said to me in private was either deliberately misleading or an outright lie:

"Italy will be moving to Greece". Almost never. He has no support unless he gets it from you, I can effortlessly bounce from Bulgaria, and that means he abandons a guaranteed build in Tunis. This is only ever seen as a Lepanto, and is distinctly something Turkey does not want to see happen. It requires a great detail of trust between Austria and Italy, and with you telling him to move West, clearly this was not your plan.

"Italy will be approaching France." While possible, he would've made absolutely no progress thanks to the Piedmont bottleneck, since his fleet was apparently going to Greece. At BEST what he does is stall France by making him (guess on) covering Marseilles.

I could dissect every lie, but you basically let a fountain of poop flow out of your mouth and then tried to make me sniff it by telling me, "If you've played Diplomacy before you know this."

I'd love to hear exactly what your plan was. I assume it involved one of us actually buying what you were selling, and then taking the gains for yourself. Instead, you got blown up because we talked to each other and Dietz was short-sighted.

@ Jdietz43 : I know why you did it, but a Turn 1 stab on Austria doesn't often work in Italy's favor. While you make immediate profits, you facilitate Turkey and Russia growing exceptionally fast. Austria is their major competitor in the Balkans, and if he's out of the picture early, it makes a Juggernaut (Russia/Turkey) very attractive to both countries. As Italy, I don't think it is wise to attack Austria until mid-game (1903/1904) simply because you need aid to pick up centers in the early game.

As Turkey, once OS was out of the way, I had nowhere to go but West into you, so you made a mistake in prioritizing immediate gain without looking at long-term consequences. If I come to any specific misplays, I'll point them out, but that was the problem with your overall strategy.

@ BSL : I don't really have that much to comment on here. You played it fine after replacing in, you just trusted me a little farther than you should have, but I know you realized that already.

@Xatres / @ #HBC | Red Ryu :

Xatres: It's hard for me to say for sure what your plans were early game, but a move to the English Channel is considered effectively a declaration of war on France, if you had agreed to a DMZ. If you hadn't, it's still a very aggressive move. The main problem with it is that it means you are not guaranteed Norway if Russia opens with Mos-StP, which Ryker did. This is one of the contributing factors to Ryker getting huge so early.

Red Ryu, you did fine after replacing in, given the position you were in. You had no chance of winning, all you could do was affect who grew between France and Russia.

 

[BSL]

@ BSL : I don't really have that much to comment on here. You played it fine after replacing in, you just trusted me a little farther than you should have, but I know you realized that already.

To be honest I don't think I trusted you any more than I should've. By the time I "trusted you too much" there wasn't anything I could do to win aside from you just giving me the tie. I was powerless to your growth, and the dietz/Ryker throw your way sealed it, trust or not.

 

[Overswarm]

@@Overswarm : Honestly, I feel like you knew what you were doing in general. But I feel like you assumed that Ryker, Dietz and I would buy the sweet-talk simply as a result of inexperience. The grand majority of what you said to me in private was either deliberately misleading or an outright lie:

"Italy will be moving to Greece". Almost never. He has no support unless he gets it from you, I can effortlessly bounce from Bulgaria, and that means he abandons a guaranteed build in Tunis. This is only ever seen as a Lepanto, and is distinctly something Turkey does not want to see happen. It requires a great detail of trust between Austria and Italy, and with you telling him to move West, clearly this was not your plan.

"Italy will be approaching France." While possible, he would've made absolutely no progress thanks to the Piedmont bottleneck, since his fleet was apparently going to Greece. At BEST what he does is stall France by making him (guess on) covering Marseilles.

I could dissect every lie, but you basically let a fountain of poop flow out of your mouth and then tried to make me sniff it by telling me, "If you've played Diplomacy before you know this."

I'd love to hear exactly what your plan was. I assume it involved one of us actually buying what you were selling, and then taking the gains for yourself. Instead, you got blown up because we talked to each other and Dietz was short-sighted.

It was to figure out who was actually going to listen to me and who was not going to do so. I wasn't lying about Italy moving into Greece, either; it's a pretty big boon for Italy that allows them to have slower growth in the beginning but larger growth in the long term. Since Italy's start puts them at near maximum-threat to Austria, it does absolutely nothing to Austria to have a "bigger Italy". Austria's threat comes from people touching on all sides, you either die fast or win fast. If you give Italy a boost guaranteed, you don't need to protect your left because only suicidal Italy players would attack Austria instead of France when they CAN attack France.

By allowing Germany and Italy to both move left (Germany because he can, Italy because I gave him an extra long-term build in Greece that I do not take) I essentially have no direct threat to my existence except from unified Russia/Turkey. From there I just pick one of those two to attack, and having Italy in Greece means that Turkey moving forward typically attacks Italy to take Greece, which Italy would likely defend.

Austria is always die early or gamble heavily on one person being on their side; most of the time its a race between Germany and Austria, with Austria moving east and Germany West.

 

[Jdietz43]

@ Raziek : My decision was made with the idea Ryker would be on my side with the positional advantage, and I believe had he not NMRd on key turns he probably would have actually followed through. At one point I had a set of moves laid out where Turkey would be dead in 3 years without any guessing games but instead Ryker was forced to deal with a Turkey he allowed to grow too big and take the other side of the conflict after letting his troops sit idle.

 

[~ Gheb ~]

I bet @ #HBC | ZoZo is delighted to see Dutchland having become french teritory!

 

[BSL]

No one deserves that, gabe.

 

[#HBC | ZoZo]

wow i got tagged in for this?

 

[#HBC | Ryker]

@ Raziek : My decision was made with the idea Ryker would be on my side with the positional advantage, and I believe had he not NMRd on key turns he probably would have actually followed through. At one point I had a set of moves laid out where Turkey would be dead in 3 years without any guessing games but instead Ryker was forced to deal with a Turkey he allowed to grow too big and take the other side of the conflict after letting his troops sit idle.

You were dead in the water bro, I was gonna stab you.

 

[#HBC | Ryker]

But I would really like to work with you in the future. I'm just mad about the NMR. It's my fault. Will play again on shorter deadlines.

 

[Overswarm]

best part about this game

is that at all times for everyone other than Raziek

if the people had listened to me they would have been in a better position

and the only person who actually listened to me and followed along was Raziek

until he had a solid chance to do otherwise due to Ryker missing a move

and then he took the chance and won


moral of the story: Listen to Overswarm until you get a golden opportunity

 

[Handorin]

If England didn't help France attack me like I told them, things would've gone so much differently.

 

[Raziek]

OS, the **** are you talking about?

You told me to open to Armenia, and I totally disregarded your opinion.

And then it was ME asking YOU to do stuff like bouncing/supporting me into the Ionian Sea/Trieste.

About the only case where that was true was you suggesting you be used as a DMZ between Ryker and I.

Don't try to credit yourself for my play. >_>

 

[Overswarm]

Not in the beginning, no one listened then.

After when I was DMZ and you helped me take stuff from Italy

 

[Handorin]

For what it's worth, I have notes in German through Spring 1902, then it just became too much for me to keep writing all my notes and playing. Got busy.
https://docs.google.com/document/d/11hOuCJxRs8lFRS78bVafL5xXRRuwlKf3JbD7G2kjDvg/edit?usp=sharing

@ ~ Gheb ~ feel free to critique. I wasn't always sure what terms were appropriate. I never talked about war much. haha

 

[Raziek]

Can we get an English translation? I wanna read it, and I'm sure Google translate would just mangle it.

 

[~ Gheb ~]

@ Handorin

Die richtige Übersetzung von "fleet" wäre Flotte und statt Panzer wäre Armee das richtige Wort gewesen. Das sind aber nur Kleinigkeiten. Im Grunde musst du nur auf den Genus von bestimmten Wörtern aufpassen [Südgrenze ist zum Beispiel feminin!] und dir abgewöhnen, gewisse Satzkonstruktionen aus dem Englischen eins zu eins ins Deutsche zu übernehmen - ein Satz wie "Ich habe nicht." ergibt auf deutsch einfach keinen Sinn, auch wenn es grammatikalisch fehlerfrei erscheint. Ansonsten sieht das ganze schon ziemlich gut aus. Gute Scheiße!

 

[Handorin]

@ Handorin

Die richtige Übersetzung von "fleet" wäre Flotte und statt Panzer wäre Armee das richtige Wort gewesen. Das sind aber nur Kleinigkeiten. Im Grunde musst du nur auf den Genus von bestimmten Wörtern aufpassen [Südgrenze ist zum Beispiel feminin!] und dir abgewöhnen, gewisse Satzkonstruktionen aus dem Englischen eins zu eins ins Deutsche zu übernehmen - ein Satz wie "Ich habe nicht." ergibt auf deutsch einfach keinen Sinn, auch wenn es grammatikalisch fehlerfrei erscheint. Ansonsten sieht das ganze schon ziemlich gut aus. Gute Scheiße!

In diesem Fall haette ich sagen sollen: "Ich habe nichts gehoert."? (statt Jdietz will auch wissen ob ich etwas von England gehört habe. Ich habe nicht.)
Aber naja, ausserdem vergesse ich ab und zumal den Genus eines Worts.

Es ist schon vor 2 Jahre dass ich in Deutschland war. Mann verlernt eine fremdsprache schnell wenn er sie nicht haeufig nutzt.

@ Raziek I'll work on it soon. haha

 

[#HBC | Gorf]

I humbly disagree

 

[BSL]

no wonder the game didn't show up in my finished games section...

it put soup back in the spot :[ ************ stealing my rankings

 

[Jdietz43]

You were dead in the water bro, I was gonna stab you.

But I would really like to work with you in the future. I'm just mad about the NMR. It's my fault. Will play again on shorter deadlines.

Well that's your misplay then, picked the wrong bro to back lol. We could have realistically had Raz if you had actually wanted it given a few years slog. Instead he got the better end of both deals. Shiz happens though.

Also ITT: OS lives in his own world where everything's made up and the points don't matter.

 

[Raziek]

no wonder the game didn't show up in my finished games section...

it put soup back in the spot :[ mother****er stealing my rankings

It was a 'Friends' game anyway, so it wouldn't actually affect your rankings in any way.

And that's a good thing, because you'd only have gone down. You only get points if you draw or win, IIRC.

Edit: Also, @ ~ Gheb ~ : Cards? :3c

 

[Handorin]

I got myself a soup card. Mmmmm