Cut Veterans: Who do you think WON'T make it?

[NintenRob]

One thing that could hurt Snake is how they are making everything look less and less like real weapons, just look at mines and ray gun, even the super scope looks more like a toy now if you look at it closely (I honestly think R.O.B. will get an updated design similar to it)

 

[Morbi]

One thing that could hurt Snake is how they are making everything look less and less like real weapons, just look at mines and ray gun, even the super scope looks more like a toy now if you look at it closely (I honestly think R.O.B. will get an updated design similar to it)

It doesn't necessarily have a correlation with his chance in Smash 4. Even if it did, it would influence his moves, not him.

 

[Jerry Applesauce]

Don't forget Captain Falcon's pistol and Sheik's grenades.

 

[Cpt.]

He was adjusted, and never used bullets though. Sheik now has a grenade, and many characters have all kinds of bombs. Really the only things sakurai has made clear arent part of his vision are real guns (as in pistols/bullet based weapons) and knives. Rocket launchers, mines, and everything else seems to be fair game within the games. I dont think being in a realistic setting hurts him in any way, especially, now heres the big one, HE WAS IN BRAWL!

Until there is anything sakurai himself states about nintendo loyalty, out of place designs, or anything else, there is no basis for what you and some others have claimed against him within the smash bros universe. I dont mean to come off as harsh, but ive seen this so many times its really tiresome when there is nothing going on here against him other then personal preference and fan console loyalty.

Yeah that's fine. It's weird to think that swords and 'nades are allowed, but not knives.

 

[HylianHeroBigBoss]

Yeah that's fine. It's weird to think that swords and 'nades are allowed, but not knives.

I think it has more to do with weapons used in crimes and violence, or at least ones children could get a hold of.

 

[Cpt.]

I think it has more to do with weapons used in crimes and violence, or at least ones children could get a hold of.

Yeah that second part makes a lot of sense. Laser guns are fine because you know, they don't exist. Its the whole T rating things that just throws Snake for a loop when I look at it, but Sakurai adding him in as one of the first third party reps does say something.

 

[pupNapoleon]

Wow; original twelve, clones, forbidden seven, third parties..... this thread is hitting on every one of the most contentious Smash topics.

Too late, i take offense

First off his past games being on other systems didnt matter before, it shouldnt matter now, hell mgs4 released the same year as brawl. And we of course just got a mgs game for the 3DS with a bundle in 2012. He fit just fine as well, in fact his contrast added some variety to the cast, but even then if you are going to say hes to realistic or out of place among other characters hes not the only one this can be used against since the likes of marth and megaman dont visually work together either just based on proportions, and marths very anime styled design

There is far too much bias against snake, and its a shame because he is up there with the pantheon of the best video game characters.

You, sir, just seem but hurt. You state that Snake does fit in fine, and then state he is a good contrast, meaning, stands out.
You list Marth and Megaman as characters who do not fit in, yet say they are anime and have strange proportions, which IS what fits in.
The idea that Snake doesn't fit in is because he doesnt; he is a real weapons of modern warfare character, that is absurdly out of place.
He never did fit in, even with MG4 coming out prior; if third parties had been decided before him, it would have been clear he doesn't fit the criteria later determined FOR third parties.
If you take offense, I think you need to face these facts head on, because his chances of returning seem more scarce than Squirtle, Ivysaur, and Pokemon Trainer.

So if any "clone" is going to be cut, it is implausible that Wolf is on that list. It is impossible actually. That justification does not apply to Wolf, nor will it ever.

Dude... if we are getting nitpicky, then no one in the game is a clone, they are all digital data, and have no DNA.
However, such is not the point. The point is that to an objective observer, they look to fight similarly, they APPEAR to be a pallate swap. When you first play as each character in the game, if you do not realize how similar they feel at first, you must not be playing as them.
As for Lucas being an upgraded character... no, never the intention. That does not even make sense; no character is supposed to be a flat out version of another, they each are supposed to have strengths and weaknesses of their own. What balance could be achieved if one is just the prototype failure of another? That completely invalidates his use.

To be objective, though, they have really only shown a few custom moves and nobody really knows the depth of the feature. Like, we've seen the Fireball Shuriken, Fireball shots, a fiery Jump Punch, a horizontally sliding Shield Breaker, Pit's arrow with an altered trajectory, Kirby breathing ice, and a DK headbutt with super armor. But that's all we know. Altering the speed/power of these attacks is a possibility but to be objective they haven't shown anything further beyond what has been demonstrated so far.

thank you for sharing your opinion on alt character costumes now.
Though, as for custom movesets; to be 'objective,' you state how incredibly varied these customizations are. In short, they are incredibly custom, huge changes. Changes that make Mario and custom Mario much more different than Falco and Fox. This is the objective. Subjective would be to assume other customizations are not as unique, because nothing would indicate that at this time.

As an advocate of Pokemon Trainer's removal, it was based on a technical justification. His detrimental mechanics, his development time, the notion that Charizard could easily replace him. I was correct. As such, it is apparent that Sakurai is cutting characters based on technical limitations or justification. Not their move-sets and not their prominence. So if he can't get Ice Climbers to work, they are gone. Snake is a justifiable cut as he is 3rd party. After that, I do not anticipate any cuts.

Ice Climbers are less complicated than Rosalina and Luma... why are people still discussing this?

If we are using the clone logic, Toon Link should have been the first to go as he is the most reminiscent of his counter-part.

Eh... Toon Link is also arguably the most important character to his series, a series which needs a healthy number of reps and has few very legitimate options (well, to Sakurai, maybe).

He was adjusted, and never used bullets though. Sheik now has a grenade, and many characters have all kinds of bombs. Really the only things sakurai has made clear arent part of his vision are real guns (as in pistols/bullet based weapons) and knives. Rocket launchers, mines, and everything else seems to be fair game within the games. I dont think being in a realistic setting hurts him in any way, especially, now heres the big one, HE WAS IN BRAWL!

Until there is anything sakurai himself states about nintendo loyalty, out of place designs, or anything else, there is no basis for what you and some others have claimed against him within the smash bros universe. I dont mean to come off as harsh, but ive seen this so many times its really tiresome when there is nothing going on here against him other then personal preference and fan console loyalty.

Well stated; though, we have seen that Nintendo, or at least Gamefreak, has a lot of pull when it comes to who they want represented. Other points, yes, are a bit inferred. Such as, why aren't real-guns and knives allowed? I would bet you and I agree on this, despite wording, that it has something to do with the type of street fighting and underhanded techniques it glorifies, for a kids game, also bumping up the game rating dramatically. We know why Snake was in Brawl, how he was the first third party, asked to be in, and that since- a lot has happened. His game got a rep in Playstation All Stars Battle Royale, has proven to be even less of a Nintendo console game, the other points stated above.
Has Sakurai flat out stated he is not in? No... but all of these points hold quite a level of valid grounding.

 

[Morbi]

Wow; original twelve, clones, forbidden seven, third parties..... this thread is hitting on every one of the most contentious Smash topics.



You, sir, just seem but hurt. You state that Snake does fit in fine, and then state he is a good contrast, meaning, stands out.
You list Marth and Megaman as characters who do not fit in, yet say they are anime and have strange proportions, which IS what fits in.
The idea that Snake doesn't fit in is because he doesnt; he is a real weapons of modern warfare character, that is absurdly out of place.
He never did fit in, even with MG4 coming out prior; if third parties had been decided before him, it would have been clear he doesn't fit the criteria later determined FOR third parties.
If you take offense, I think you need to face these facts head on, because his chances of returning seem more scarce than Squirtle, Ivysaur, and Pokemon Trainer.



Dude... if we are getting nitpicky, then no one in the game is a clone, they are all digital data, and have no DNA.
However, such is not the point. The point is that to an objective observer, they look to fight similarly, they APPEAR to be a pallate swap. When you first play as each character in the game, if you do not realize how similar they feel at first, you must not be playing as them.
As for Lucas being an upgraded character... no, never the intention. That does not even make sense; no character is supposed to be a flat out version of another, they each are supposed to have strengths and weaknesses of their own. What balance could be achieved if one is just the prototype failure of another? That completely invalidates his use.


thank you for sharing your opinion on alt character costumes now.
Though, as for custom movesets; to be 'objective,' you state how incredibly varied these customizations are. In short, they are incredibly custom, huge changes. Changes that make Mario and custom Mario much more different than Falco and Fox. This is the objective. Subjective would be to assume other customizations are not as unique, because nothing would indicate that at this time.

Ice Climbers are less complicated than Rosalina and Luma... why are people still discussing this?


Eh... Toon Link is also arguably the most important character to his series, a series which needs a healthy number of reps and has few very legitimate options (well, to Sakurai, maybe).


Well stated; though, we have seen that Nintendo, or at least Gamefreak, has a lot of pull when it comes to who they want represented. Other points, yes, are a bit inferred. Such as, why aren't real-guns and knives allowed? I would bet you and I agree on this, despite wording, that it has something to do with the type of street fighting and underhanded techniques it glorifies, for a kids game, also bumping up the game rating dramatically. We know why Snake was in Brawl, how he was the first third party, asked to be in, and that since- a lot has happened. His game got a rep in Playstation All Stars Battle Royale, has proven to be even less of a Nintendo console game, the other points stated above.
Has Sakurai flat out stated he is not in? No... but all of these points hold quite a level of valid grounding.

Maybe if you attempted to comprehend what I was asserting I wouldn't have to address any of these points. Nevertheless, I am used to such incompetence, here we go, some elaboration as it was deemed necessary.

No one is talking about biological matter, we are talking about Smash Brothers characters, read the original post. The context altered the definition of the word to be specific to Smash. I am not being overly literal just because I use absolute fact to demonstrate my perspective. I am not sure how that was misconstrued. The aesthetics of the characters moves are irrelevant to their play-style, obviously. This is what I was alluding to, this is what is relevant to the subject at hand. Lucas was intended to be a clone character, that is objectively accurate. Just like Toon Link was intended to be a clone character. Just like Falco was intended to be a clone character. Just as any clone character is intended to be a clone character.

So I am not playing them, as I am able to discern their differences? Self-referential incoherence at its finest.

I never insinuated that Rosalina is less complicated than the Ice Climbers. I wasn't conveying anything pertinent to that subject matter. That topic was in relation to justifiable cuts, cuts applicable to the development of the game, cuts not relating to a characters move-set. However, I am going to demand that you give me a source to prove your baseless claim.

Please. Underline where I insinuated anything antithetical to that belief. Toon Link is the perfect example to demonstrate that clone-status is immaterial to inclusion into Smash 4.

Again, read what I say, or do not respond to me. I do not appreciate this by any stretch of the imagination.

 

[Jerry Applesauce]

thank you for sharing your opinion on alt character costumes now.
Though, as for custom movesets; to be 'objective,' you state how incredibly varied these customizations are. In short, they are incredibly custom, huge changes. Changes that make Mario and custom Mario much more different than Falco and Fox. This is the objective. Subjective would be to assume other customizations are not as unique, because nothing would indicate that at this time.

Do you not know what I was saying? I was saying "to be objective" as in "factually," these are the custom moves Sakurai presented. If anything was subjective in what I said it would have been my opinion on alt characters. Yeah, I'm also getting the vibe you aren't really reading what we're saying...I hate to rail on you but honestly you aren't making any sense, grammitically, conceptually, logically...maybe read slower?

 

[pupNapoleon]

Maybe if you attempted to comprehend what I was asserting I wouldn't have to address any of these points. Nevertheless, I am used to such incompetence, here we go, some elaboration as it was deemed necessary.

No one is talking about biological matter, we are talking about Smash Brothers characters, read the original post. The context altered the definition of the word to be specific to Smash. I am not being overly literal just because I use absolute fact to demonstrate my perspective. I am not sure how that was misconstrued. The aesthetics of the characters moves are irrelevant to their play-style, obviously. This is what I was alluding to, this is what is relevant to the subject at hand. Lucas was intended to be a clone character, that is objectively accurate. Just like Toon Link was intended to be a clone character. Just like Falco was intended to be a clone character. Just as any clone character is intended to be a clone character.

So I am not playing them, as I am able to discern their differences? Self-referential incoherence at its finest.

I never insinuated that Rosalina is less complicated than the Ice Climbers. I wasn't conveying anything pertinent to that subject matter. That topic was in relation to justifiable cuts, cuts applicable to the development of the game, cuts not relating to a characters move-set. However, I am going to demand that you give me a source to prove your baseless claim.

Please. Underline where I insinuated anything antithetical to that belief. Toon Link is the perfect example to demonstrate that clone-status is immaterial to inclusion into Smash 4.

Again, read what I say, or do not respond to me. I do not appreciate this by any stretch of the imagination.

Considering the entire first paragraph of this is extremely inappropriate aggression based upon one point you later overlook entirely even when stating, I did not read the full argument. Perhaps if you learned to speak with respect his wouldn't be the case.
It is a video game, aesthetic matters heavily. Ignore the fact all you want, it is an extremel important factor, constantly acknowledged by Sakurai (how many of his PotD say something to the effect of 'look how stunning she looks?) in development, and even more important to casual gamers, which make up a far greater number in sales than the die had fans on these boards.
The fact that their is any controversy, much less such extreme controversy on the matter, is rather indicative that the answer is not nearly as cut and dry. It wouldnt even matter if your argument were legitimate, the perception of the masses becomes truth enough.

Do you not know what I was saying? I was saying "to be objective" as in "factually," these are the custom moves Sakurai presented. If anything was subjective in what I said it would have been my opinion on alt characters. Yeah, I'm also getting the vibe you aren't really reading what we're saying...I hate to rail on you but honestly you aren't making any sense, grammitically, conceptually, logically...maybe read slower?

You are aware you just agreed with what I said, correct? That your statements on the customization is the subjective part- it is in my post. Grammar, seriously? Seriously? Let us not even engage on that subject, captain. Much less logic, or the definitions of words.

Edit:
You are claiming I do not read your posts, both of you, yet each point I make is contended with a belief, or just ignored, such as my statement that Toon Link is arguably the most important clone in his respected series. Do I think he is necessary? No. Yet he is the main character, a recurring form of such, of the third top selling Nintendo franchise. Lucas, Falco, Wolf, Pichu, Roy... only perhaps the original Luigi himself, could prove more important.
Or even worse, 'baseless claim,' in regards to my comment on the Ice Climbers. You want a reference? I wasn't the one who referred to technical limitations, you were! Do you want a reference to Rosalina being included? Or do you just not see that two characters who use different moves are harder to program than two characters that fight purely in tandem? There is nothing to reference here! One word guys, etiquette. The irony of your claims is nothing compared to the lack of dignity you've represented by the hapless name calling.

 

[Morbi]

Considering the entire first paragraph of this is extremely inappropriate aggression based upon one point you later overlook entirely even when stating, I did not read the full argument. Perhaps if you learned to speak with respect his wouldn't be the case.
It is a video game, aesthetic matters heavily. Ignore the fact all you want, it is an extremel important factor, constantly acknowledged by Sakurai (how many of his PotD say something to the effect of 'look how stunning she looks?) in development, and even more important to casual gamers, which make up a far greater number in sales than the die had fans on these boards.
The fact that their is any controversy, much less such extreme controversy on the matter, is rather indicative that the answer is not nearly as cut and dry. It wouldnt even matter if your argument were legitimate, the perception of the masses becomes truth enough.


You are aware you just agreed with what I said, correct? That your statements on the customization is the subjective part- it is in my post. Grammar, seriously? Seriously? Let us not even engage on that subject, captain. Much less logic, or the definitions of words.

So now I am the one with the fallacious argument because I was offended that you didn't bother to read my post (which by extension means that I didn't extend my unconditional respect to you)? I am not going to assert that Wolf is a clone because casual players do not understand the fundamentals of the game. I apologize, it isn't going to happen.

 

[Jerry Applesauce]

You are aware you just agreed with what I said, correct? That your statements on the customization is the subjective part- it is in my post. Grammar, seriously? Seriously? Let us not even engage on that subject, captain. Much less logic, or the definitions of words.

Dude, really? I agreed with nothing but the reality of the words I myself had posted. And no, you said that "Subjective would be to assume other customizations are not as unique, because nothing would indicate that at this time," in regards to the custom movesets you were talking about prior. You really could work on reasoning, as well as reading. Try reading slower, or aloud, it really does work in comprehending what people say.

I'm not writing you off as a person, or a user, I'm just done arguing with you because you can't understand what others are saying! I don't know if you're really not able to comprehend the words other people speak or you're just trolling/joking around. Either way, I'm not wasting anymore time discussing this with you. Unless you can really give a real response to specifically what I and others have written.

 

[pupNapoleon]

So now I am the one with the fallacious argument because I was offended that you didn't bother to read my post (which by extension means that I didn't extend my unconditional respect to you)? I am not going to assert that Wolf is a clone because casual players do not understand the fundamentals of the game. I apologize, it isn't going to happen.

You can ignore how the masses view the game all you want, but it doesn't change the reality of the situation.
And, as I said, the first post you made was one I fully read. The second, the one before this one I am replying to now, is the one I said I am not going to bother reading in full, because of your disrespectful nature in response, that half of he post was directly just bashing my character, not even my argument. In the art of communication, if you start of shouting you will likely not be heard. A charging rhino is not confronted.

 

[pupNapoleon]

"Subjective would be to assume other customizations are not as unique, because nothing would indicate that at this time"

Let me use synonyms to define this for ya; Subjective (the skewed version of the fact based on your personal experiences) IS the direct assertation that you made

You know the Starfox characters could share some custom moves. Like for the Blaster:Falco and Wolf could have a Blaster that has a high firing rate like Fox's, and Fox could have a Blaster that shoots with knockback. Let's say that's all they get in regards to the Blaster. Now say they all get a custom moveset option for a Missile Launcher. Maybe the speed of the shot would differ ever slightly depending on the character. Stuff like that. To be objective, though, they have really only shown a few custom moves and nobody really knows the depth of the feature. Like, we've seen the Fireball Shuriken, Fireball shots, a fiery Jump Punch, a horizontally sliding Shield Breaker, Pit's arrow with an altered trajectory, Kirby breathing ice, and a DK headbutt with super armor. But that's all we know. Altering the speed/power of these attacks is a possibility but to be objective they haven't shown anything further beyond what has been demonstrated so far.

Your opinion is that the depth of the feature could very well be contrary to what is shown, that it is not nearly as encompassing as every example you listed, and that it may just affect speed and strength of the moveset most of the time. Your bias view is that there is any reason to believe all of the other customizable options are much less unique than every example we have seen.

 

[Morbi]

You can ignore how the masses view the game all you want, but it doesn't change the reality of the situation.
And, as I said, the first post you made was one I fully read. The second, the one before this one I am replying to now, is the one I said I am not going to bother reading in full, because of your disrespectful nature in response, that half of he post was directly just bashing my character, not even my argument. In the art of communication, if you start of shouting you will likely not be heard. A charging rhino is not confronted.

Okay, I don't necessarily care. If you want to talk about Smash or cut veterans, we can. I am not going to comment any further in regards to my communication. It was wrong, and I should not have done that; however, I didn't appreciate the implications of the post.

I am not necessarily disregarding the masses interpretation of the game, I just feel as though it is immaterial. Sakurai isn't going to ascertain the same misconception, maybe he will alter the properties of Wolf's moves to offer some aesthetic diversity, just as he has with veterans. That was not objectively the primary concern of my argument though, I was asserting that he will not be omitted from Smash 4 based on his clone-status as he does not have a clone-status. You are correct, he has a perceived clone-status. Which again, is irrelevant. The creative director of the game comprehends that Wolf is not a clone. That is what is pertinent to Wolf's move-set and that is what will influence his decision.

 

[Jerry Applesauce]

Let me use synonyms to define this for ya; Subjective (the skewed version of the fact based on your personal experiences) IS the direct assertation that you made

Your opinion is that the depth of the feature could very well be contrary to what is shown, that it is not nearly as encompassing as every example you list, and that it may just affect speed and strength of the moveset most of the time. Your bias view is that there is any reason to believe all of the other customizable options are much less unique than every example we have seen.

I am not biased regarding anything here. You are putting words into my mouth. I am merely suggesting that adding in the feature to alter the speed and strenght of the moves could be a possiblity. I am not suggesting the custom moves would not be much less unique than ever example we have seen. Rather, I am suggesting the possibility of the option to alter those properties of the custom moves COULD exist.

In general, it is not the greatest idea to make assumptions, or take things out of context...if you insinuated that from my post then that is your insinuation based on my statement. My statement is my statement.

 

[pupNapoleon]

Appreciated, @ Morbi
The ironic thing is that, despite my dislike for certain 'clone' characters, I'm merely standing up for the colloquialisms of the words, and the merit of them in the smash community. Obviously Sakurai includes and likes them, they keep coming back.

I am not biased regarding anything here. You are putting words into my mouth. I am merely suggesting that adding in the feature to alter the speed and strenght of the moves could be a possiblity. I am not suggesting the custom moves would not be much less unique than ever example we have seen. Rather, I am suggesting the possibility of the option to alter those properties of the custom moves COULD exist.

Everyone is bias. Your statement about what you feel is inherently bias. No wonder we are not communicating effectively.

This has entirely turned into a personal discussion, PM me if you would like to have it, but this thread is not the place for it.

 

[Jerry Applesauce]

Opinion/viewpoints/perspectives are INHERENTLY subjective and based on personal bias. Note that I said those features (altering strength/speed of custom moves) are a POSSIBILITY, not an inevitability or a fact. A possibility is something that COULD happen. Could. Not something that WILL happen. But could. Maybe. Maybe not. Something that could possibly happen is something that may or may not happen. Saying something is possible leaves it out in the open.

God, I'm done...don't take it personally, okay? You just seem as if you aren't understanding what we're saying, or just making insinuations about what you believe we saying. Really, it's not that difficult to read slower and gain understanding of people's words...

My bad for being involved in dragging this out.

 

[praline]

Ah ok. So dope that he planned Toon Zelda, Dixie, and Toon Zelda/Tetra. Even though I'm against their inclusion in SSB4 it would have been sick just to see them in Brawl.

That really makes no sense.

 

[Morbi]

That really makes no sense.

Why does it not make any sense? I read it; it seemingly made sense to me, but perhaps I am missing something?

 

[praline]

Why does it not make any sense? I read it; it seemingly made sense to me, but perhaps I am missing something?

I dunno... maybe it's just cause I'm dizzy from exhaustion. lol

 

[Xigger]

Spoiler

On a more serious note, they DID start by importing Brawl to the Wii U... every Brawl character was on the Wii U at that point

Sauce on that spoiler?

I can't find the quote for the life of me. I recall it was along the lines of "We started by importing Brawl assets to the Wii U", some mention of using special tools to do so...

Even without proof, I think any Smash fan would agree that this true, based solely off of Diddy and Lucario's Brawl icons in the April Direct, and perhaps similar cases.

 

[Jerry Applesauce]

Not to dismiss how they had Diddy and Lucario's Brawl icons in the Direct, but I thought that they designed the characters from scratch evertim...

http://www.polygon.com/2013/6/17/4438642/super-smash-bros-director-masahiro-sakurai-character-selection

Ctrl+F "scratch"

or, here's some direct quotes:

"We really start from scratch, every time."

"The Smash Bros. developer takes the same care and considerations when redesigning returning characters, like Mario, Donkey Kong and Samus Aran from Metroid. They start from scratch with every character, Sakurai said, first determining how those characters should be graphically represented on new hardware. How characters look, in terms of color, precision and resolution, must be considered before they're designed. That's a challenge for the new Smash Bros., which will have two different levels of visual fidelity and graphical styles across the Wii U and 3Ds versions of the game."

 

[Swift Fox]

I can't find the quote for the life of me. I recall it was along the lines of "We started by importing Brawl assets to the Wii U", some mention of using special tools to do so...

Even without proof, I think any Smash fan would agree that this true, based solely off of Diddy and Lucario's Brawl icons in the April Direct, and perhaps similar cases.

I think you recalled the Brawl hack tool ("BrawlBox") which was used to inject existing models from other games into Brawl.

And I agree, they seemed to start off with Brawl models rather than starting from scratch and Fox and Link proved that.

 

[HylianHeroBigBoss]

You, sir, just seem but hurt. You state that Snake does fit in fine, and then state he is a good contrast, meaning, stands out.
You list Marth and Megaman as characters who do not fit in, yet say they are anime and have strange proportions, which IS what fits in.
The idea that Snake doesn't fit in is because he doesnt; he is a real weapons of modern warfare character, that is absurdly out of place.
He never did fit in, even with MG4 coming out prior; if third parties had been decided before him, it would have been clear he doesn't fit the criteria later determined FOR third parties.
If you take offense, I think you need to face these facts head on, because his chances of returning seem more scarce than Squirtle, Ivysaur, and Pokemon Trainer.

Look out we got a bad ass here lol. The only reason i used marth as an example is because in a ton of ways he looks very different when compared to a cartoon proportioned character like megaman, and by that same token snake looks different to them as well. It works in both ways and to greater extents, but he fit just fine and players loved him. His tech being from our world only makes it out of place if your seeing it as only fantasy tools are what makes sense, when each character is only using what is from their respective worlds which in snakes case is from our own. And what would be the criteria later determined for third parties? All we know is that they had to be on nintendo consoles at least once, and as sakurai has said this time not just any character can join the battle. Snake did, there was obviously great thought put into that decision regardless of any stigma about brand loyalty.

Well stated; though, we have seen that Nintendo, or at least Gamefreak, has a lot of pull when it comes to who they want represented. Other points, yes, are a bit inferred. Such as, why aren't real-guns and knives allowed? I would bet you and I agree on this, despite wording, that it has something to do with the type of street fighting and underhanded techniques it glorifies, for a kids game, also bumping up the game rating dramatically. We know why Snake was in Brawl, how he was the first third party, asked to be in, and that since- a lot has happened. His game got a rep in Playstation All Stars Battle Royale, has proven to be even less of a Nintendo console game, the other points stated above.
Has Sakurai flat out stated he is not in? No... but all of these points hold quite a level of valid grounding.

A spin off series got a rep in PSABR, they couldnt even get snake himself. Not that it means much since that really doesnt have anything to do with the choices in this game either way. Sakurai himself already stated that console wars mean nothing to him and his methods, even going as far as to praise the ps4. Many seem to think that snake not having his major console titles on nintendo consoles at this moment is a reason for his absence, when really there is nothing to prove that it would ever be the case unless sakurai flat out states it. Yes im fully open to the possibility that he might be removed, but i doubt its for the all reasons some people like to think it would be, especially those with a nintendo purist mentality or those who just dont like his character or how he is a contrast to others. Sakurai is not going to have a board meeting to discuss snakes relevance to nintendo, or how many titles hes had, its just ridiculous.

 

[NintenRob]

Where do people even get the idea R.O.B. will be cut? He is an important part of Nintendos history and had an important role in Brawl.

He also has a unique moveset and is pretty much wearing the same shoes as Mr Game & Watch was wearing in Melee.

 

[Jerry Applesauce]

Because many people (including myself) want him cut. He's no big video game character despite his importance to the game industry, as well as his cameos in Mario Kart, F-Zero, Kirby and such. Sure he had a role in the Subspace Emissary but that was back in Brawl. I'd rather have game characters that I'm a big fan of make it in instead of R.O.B., in my perspective.

 

[NintenRob]

Thats not a reason to think of him as a good possibility of being cut, thats just plain selfishness. And I wouldn't call his appearance in Mario Kart a cameo.

You may as well start thinking of Mr Game & Watch, Ice Climbers and any other retro characters not very likely to be added.

 

[Morbi]

Thats not a reason to think of him as a good possibility, thats just plain selfishness. And I wouldn't call his appearance in Mario Kart a cameo.

You may as well start thinking of Mr Game & Watch, Ice Climbers and any other retro characters not very likely to be added.

It isn't necessarily that we believe that R.O.B will be cut, it is that we want him to be cut. There are no objective reasons to support that claim, as you asserted. I just feel as though he would fit in better as an assist trophy. He doesn't necessarily have to be represented as a playable character.

 

[Jerry Applesauce]

It isn't selfishness, it's an opinion and a desire. I am not in charge of creating the game, but I do have my own opinions about it. I could argue that wanting a certain character to be in is selfish, but really that's a personal want.

And yes, some people including myself want him to be cut as MorbidAltruism said. We don't believe he will but we want him to be and we have reasons to support our claims/opinions/desires.

 

[NintenRob]

Saying he should be an assist trophy is the worst idea I have ever heard -.-

Seriously, downgrading a character like that would be a horrible idea and would be the biggest slap in face to his fans like myself. I'm glad people on game forums aren't in charge of this game.

You may have controlled Prof. Hector in the games but R.O.B. was the star and was what got people interested in Gyromite. He might not be in the games physically but he is still a Video Game character, just an external one.

 

[Jerry Applesauce]

See, your opinion? Your want for him not to be an Assist Trophy? Not selfish. Just an opinion. A perspective. As much as an opinion as my opinion that he should be cut and demoted. We aren't in charge of the game!

Yes, he's an external peripheral, who's also made appearances in other games as an actual character onscreen. For me personally, I don't think that a game peripheral that had an important role in gaming history (a super important one, by the way) and made a few special appearances in other games exactly deserves playable status. Maybe it was cool for Brawl but this time around he should be an Assist. I mean, look at Color TV-Game 15 being an Assist. That's a part of Nintendo history. How about R.O.B. be an Assist too?

 

[Speculator]

Yes, he's an external peripheral, who's also made appearances in other games as an actual character onscreen. For me personally, I don't think that a game peripheral that had an important role in gaming history (a super important one, by the way) and made a few special appearances in other games exactly deserves playable status. Maybe it was cool for Brawl but this time around he should be an Assist. I mean, look at Color TV-Game 15 being an Assist. That's a part of Nintendo history. How about R.O.B. be an Assist too?

You're failing to take into account his status as an established SSB character, which makes him every bit as legitimate as the characters you like. Every character has their fans, which is something Sakurai referred to in this interview. I think suggesting he should be dropped or demoted to assist trophy without taking this into account is pretty selfish.

 

[pupNapoleon]

but he fit just fine and players loved him.

Well, the fitting is the debatable part, and if 'players loved him' is a reason, then, 'players first cut' is another reason.

His tech being from our world only makes it out of place if your seeing it as only fantasy tools are what makes sense, when each character is only using what is from their respective worlds which in snakes case is from our own.

Exactly, his world doesn't fit well with Smash. It was in SSBB, yes, but it did not fit.

And what would be the criteria later determined for third parties? All we know is that they had to be on nintendo consoles at least once, and as sakurai has said this time not just any character can join the battle. Snake did, there was obviously great thought put into that decision regardless of any stigma about brand loyalty.

Actually, we have been told time and time again it was a favor to a friend. A third party is supposed to be significant to Nintendo, it is no easy feat. Perhaps this is slightly personal preference, but if you truly think players see him and think Nintendo in any way, I really do not know what to say to you at this time.

Many seem to think that snake not having his major console titles on nintendo consoles at this moment is a reason for his absence, when really there is nothing to prove that it would ever be the case unless sakurai flat out states it.

I'm by no means a Nintendo purist: I want more third parties than most people, I would have 10 if it were my way. These ten just happen to be extremely relevanto Nintendo- Bomberman, Banjo Kazooie, Cooking Mama, Professor Layton, Scribblenaut-- and exhibit the kid delight and charm which make them fit into the world.
And no, he isnt going to have a board meeting to discuss it, I agre. The reason it is ridiculous is because it is inherent knowledge and need not be discussed, putting this whole conversation into a somewhat moot point.
Reread what you said though. 'Many seem to think the fact that this characer's games fully supporting Nintendo's competition and having almost nothing to do with Nintendo at this point is important.' Yeah... we do think it is important. It is important.

Either way, the realistic-aggressive nature is the ultimate kick in the balls fo Snake; there is a huge different between shooting a space dragon and shooting a human guardsman in a wartime setting. The genre just evolved out from where it started to the point that it need be realistic in that way, it isnt Snake's fault, but it makes him a poor choice for the game. The rating factor would go up another notch to actually represent him. Yet, one of his moves is with Sheik, and another is an item. Sure, he could still be in, but those things dont help.

 

[smashingDoug]

any who
falco or wolf im more for cutting falco because wolf was going to be in melee
snake he gone noting you make me thing otherwise

and to Jerry Applesauce about rob not being a big video game character you can say that about half the roster

 

[Capybara Gaming]

and to Jerry Applesauce about rob not being a big video game character you can say that about half the roster

What are you talking about?

 

[smashingDoug]

What are you talking about?

okay a small cult falling what may be next to none if you not mario zelda or pokemon

 

[Capybara Gaming]

okay a small cult falling what may be next to none if you not mario zelda or pokemon

Every series in Smash debuted as a game or in R.O.B.'s case an important part of Nintendo's gaming history. Everyone BUT R.O.B. appeared ina game FIRST.

 

[pupNapoleon]

falco or wolf im more for cutting falco because wolf was going to be in melee

Hm, is that so? I would want Wolf over Falco immediately, but this seems strange to read from ya.

 

[smashingDoug]

Every series in Smash debuted as a game or in R.O.B.'s case an important part of Nintendo's gaming history. Everyone BUT R.O.B. appeared ina game FIRST.

and?

Hm, is that so? I would want Wolf over Falco immediately, but this seems strange to read from ya.

i know it does if i can find where i read it i will send you a link