Custom Move discussion: Luigi

[Ultima 3]

Neutral B
Fireball: Shoots straight. Does 6%. Medium range.
Bouncing Fireball: Lose's momentum after each bounce. Bounce height become lower after each bounce. Bounces 4 times before disappearing. Does 6%. After first bounce, does 5%. After the second, does 4%. When used in the air, bounces 3 times from short hop height and twice from heigher before disappearing. Depending on how high it's shot, does 6% from a short hop height, 5% from full jump height, 4% from double jump height. Perfect blocking makes it bounce off shield.
Iceball: Shoots straight. Does 4%. Short range. Freezes at 42%.

Side B
Green Missile: Takes 3 seconds to fully charge. Holding charge too long makes you stop. Longer the charge greater the damage, distance and knockback. Minimum 9%. Maximum 21%. KO move. Near edge at 90%, in the centre at 110%. Misfire 25%, high knockback. KO move. Near edge at 50%, in the centre at 70%.
Floating Missile: Takes 2 seconds to fully charge. Holding charge too long makes you stop. Longer the charge greater the damage, distance and knockback. Minimum 10%. Maximum 18%. KO move. Near the edge at 100%, in the centre at 120%. Misfire 23%, high knockback. KO move. Near the edge at 60%, in the centre at 70%.
Quick Missile Takes 3 seconds to fully charge. Holding charge to long makes you stop. Longer the charge greater the damage, distance and knockback. Flies extremely far. Slides across the floor if you do not hit anything. Minimum 8%. In the air, minimum of 5%. Maximum 20%. KO move. Near the edge at 110%, in the centre at 120%. Misfire 20%. KO move. Near edge at 80%, in the centre at 110%.

Up B
Super Jump Punch: Jumps straight up. Starting Hit 25%, high Knockback. KO move at 70%. Latter hit 1%.
Fiery Jump Punch: Jumps straight up. Very short distance. Starting Hit 18%. KO move at 120%. Latter hit 1%.
Burial Header: Jumps straight up. Descends very quickly. Upward hit 1%. Donwards hit 8%. Buries grounded opponents. Hits away aerial opponents. KO move. Near the edge at 190%, in the centre Sudden Death KO move.

Down B
Luigi Cyclone: Hits maximum of 5 times. Initial hit does 1%. Each hit from 2nd to 4th does 1.5%. (Even numbers hits will do 2%, odd numbers hits will do 1%). Final hit 3%. Rapidly pressing B rises you into the air a fair bit. Can move far horizontally on the ground. Doesn't move as far horizontally in the air. KO move. In the air at 130%, on the ground at 200%.
Mach Cyclone: Rapidly pressing B rises you very far into the air. Hardly any horizontal movement. Final hit does 6%, high knockback. Has a pushback effect whilst spinning. KO move. Near the edge at 100%, in the air at 130% and in the centre at 160%.
Clothesline Cyclone: Cannot rise into the air. Can move horizontally. All hits do 8%. Spinning hits, decent knockback. KO move. Near the edge at 200%, in the centre Sudden Death KO move. Final hit, high knockback. KO move at 120%.

What would be the go to customs?

 

[Yonder]

Honestly, my custom move set is just Luigi's normal moves except changing to quick missile [floating missile is ok too]. Just that the normal missile is a terrible move by itself and needs to be replaced with a custom. Quick missile has absolutely incredible recovery, matching the distance of a misfire in Melee when charged, no real drawbacks either. Absolutrly mandatory if using customs. The rest are fine. Maybe bouncing fire ball and mach tornado for recovery, but I don't like losing my tornado as an offensive approach. Don't bother with custom SJPs, they are terrible.

In conclusion.

B: Normal Fireball [Maybe bouncing fireball]
Side B: Quick missile [Maybe floating missile]
Up B: Normal SJP
Down B: Normal cyclone [maybe mach tornado for recovery]

 

[Rakurai]

My preferred load out is Iceball, Floating Missile, SJP, and Mach Cyclone.

Iceball's slower movement speed makes it better for approaches then the standard fireball.

Floating Missile actually reaches a max charge in about half a second if you smash it and you account for the fact that it reaches full power before Luigi stops drawing in energy. It's also a lot easier to connect with misfires due to the straight trajectory.

The other SJP customs just aren't good enough to warrant using them over the default.

Luigi Cyclone isn't as good of an attack as it was in Brawl due to it being a multi-hitter on the ground now, so trading it out for a drastically increased vertical recovery feels worthwhile.

 

[hey_there]

I was playing with the customs today and I like Ice Ball and Mach Cyclone. I tried out the Bouncing Fireball, but there was way too much ending lag on it for my liking and it left me wide open a lot. The Ice Ball seems to come out slower than the regular fireball, but the slow air speed makes it great for controlling space. SJP is so much better than the other two Up Bs.

I'm actually pretty torn when it comes to down B. On one hand, Mach Cyclone let's you recover after going in deep off stage, letting you really chase opponents with fairs and take some risky plays with edge guarding. One the other hand, Luigi Cyclone is a cool mix-up and gives Luigi an approach against campers and defensive players in general.

I was also torn between Floating Missile and Quick Missile, but I think I have to go with FM. Out of the three, FM seems to end the quickest, which is great because being stuck in missile mode leaves you wide open. QM will definitely get you back on stage, but the huge ending lag is the deal breaker for me. Green Missile being the strongest is nice, but FM ending the quickest clinches it for me.

Right now I like Ice Ball, Floating Missile, SJP, and probably Luigi Cyclone, but I can't deny being really tempted to go with Mach Cyclone. Honestly it would really depend on the MU.

 

[ThegreatVaporeon1]

Honestly, my custom move set is just Luigi's normal moves except changing to quick missile [floating missile is ok too]. Just that the normal missile is a terrible move by itself and needs to be replaced with a custom. Quick missile has absolutely incredible recovery, matching the distance of a misfire in Melee when charged, no real drawbacks either. Absolutrly mandatory if using customs. The rest are fine. Maybe bouncing fire ball and mach tornado for recovery, but I don't like losing my tornado as an offensive approach. Don't bother with custom SJPs, they are terrible.

In conclusion.

B: Normal Fireball [Maybe bouncing fireball]
Side B: Quick missile [Maybe floating missile]
Up B: Normal SJP
Down B: Normal cyclone [maybe mach tornado for recovery]

His quick missile gets stuck on the wall though, even if you dont have it fully charged, which is my real problem with it, but yeah its good for recovery.

Honestly, i think mach torando is better. His regular does a measly 8% and is extremely punishable. Mach cyclone can also kill off the top and has incredible height. idk, maybe its preference.

 

[hey_there]

Honestly, i think mach torando is better. His regular does a measly 8% and is extremely punishable. Mach cyclone can also kill off the top and has incredible height. idk, maybe its preference.

It's great, but my main gripe is that because you can't move forward with it at all it's easier to get zoned out.

 

[hey_there]

EDIT: OK, tested out customs a lot tonight. Here are my thoughts:

Spoiler

I have misjudged Bouncing Fireball. It's not as bad as I thought at first, and I can see it being really useful depending on the match up. Overall, I think regular Fireball is the best. It's quick, it harasses, it's easy to spam, it gets free damage, it gets decent distance. Bouncing Fireball does similar things but you can't spam it as quickly and you can't really interrupt aerial approaches. However, it's big advantage comes from harassing people recovering low. Ice Ball is just too slow -- it never seems to reach its target, and I really dislike the freezing. It doesn't cover approaches as well as Fireball imo.

Quick Missile feels way worse than the other two. It's easy to get stuck in walls, and it takes forever to end. I like Green Missile better then Floating Missile. Better damage, and better not to travel slowly along a single x-axis. The one exception is when using Fiery Jump Punch. The loss of height from Fiery Jump Punch means FM is better, since FM can travel further than GM and ends with Luigi being higher. With FJP, you need all the height you can get.

Fiery Jump Punch was OK. Landing crits really was way easier, but not being able to kill with it until like 120ish% really sucked. Huge ending lag and it's crap for recovery sucked too. Burial Header was... surprisingly good! Like, REALLY good. You can reach the ledge from just above where you'd be magnified at the bottom of the screen. The extra height is crazy awesome, and it's ending lag is really short. It's another option for edge guarding, and it's hard to edge guard against. Not having an instant KO move is a bit sad, but grounding someone means you're guaranteed an fsmash, which can easily end a stock. I strongly recommend everyone actually try out Burial Header. Practise recovering with it in training mode a bit, then get into some serious matches and you'll see how great it is. I'm actually now using Burial Header over SJP =O!

Clothesline Cyclone wasn't great. It's an OK kill move, killing at about the same percents as Fiery Jump Punch. It has the horizontal movement to chase, but it's still kinda slow, and it doesn't give you recovery. Mach Cyclone has the awesome vertical recovery and definitely gets KOs off the top, but without good horizontal movement, match ups against campers got significantly tougher (for reference, I played against a campy Robin main). Luigi Cyclone let's you combo, mix-up, evade, chase, KO AND recover. It doesn't recover as well as MC, but I find it so much more useful overall.

tl;dr Burial Header rocks.

 

[hey_there]

Darn, meant to edit my last post, not make a new one x_x.

 

[Ultima 3]

EDIT: OK, tested out customs a lot tonight. Here are my thoughts:

Spoiler

I have misjudged Bouncing Fireball. It's not as bad as I thought at first, and I can see it being really useful depending on the match up. Overall, I think regular Fireball is the best. It's quick, it harasses, it's easy to spam, it gets free damage, it gets decent distance. Bouncing Fireball does similar things but you can't spam it as quickly and you can't really interrupt aerial approaches. However, it's big advantage comes from harassing people recovering low. Ice Ball is just too slow -- it never seems to reach its target, and I really dislike the freezing. It doesn't cover approaches as well as Fireball imo.

Quick Missile feels way worse than the other two. It's easy to get stuck in walls, and it takes forever to end. I like Green Missile better then Floating Missile. Better damage, and better not to travel slowly along a single x-axis. The one exception is when using Fiery Jump Punch. The loss of height from Fiery Jump Punch means FM is better, since FM can travel further than GM and ends with Luigi being higher. With FJP, you need all the height you can get.

Fiery Jump Punch was OK. Landing crits really was way easier, but not being able to kill with it until like 120ish% really sucked. Huge ending lag and it's crap for recovery sucked too. Burial Header was... surprisingly good! Like, REALLY good. You can reach the ledge from just above where you'd be magnified at the bottom of the screen. The extra height is crazy awesome, and it's ending lag is really short. It's another option for edge guarding, and it's hard to edge guard against. Not having an instant KO move is a bit sad, but grounding someone means you're guaranteed an fsmash, which can easily end a stock. I strongly recommend everyone actually try out Burial Header. Practise recovering with it in training mode a bit, then get into some serious matches and you'll see how great it is. I'm actually now using Burial Header over SJP =O!

Clothesline Cyclone wasn't great. It's an OK kill move, killing at about the same percents as Fiery Jump Punch. It has the horizontal movement to chase, but it's still kinda slow, and it doesn't give you recovery. Mach Cyclone has the awesome vertical recovery and definitely gets KOs off the top, but without good horizontal movement, match ups against campers got significantly tougher (for reference, I played against a campy Robin main). Luigi Cyclone let's you combo, mix-up, evade, chase, KO AND recover. It doesn't recover as well as MC, but I find it so much more useful overall.

tl;dr Burial Header rocks.

Hmmm...that's interestg.

To be honest, I never considered Burial Heaer. I guess I didnt notuce the extra height it gives. Hmmm...I still kind of like Iceball but it is rather slow

 

[Yonder]

Darn, meant to edit my last post, not make a new one x_x.

I agree with everything except quick missile being the worst missile. The recovery distance is just far too amazing and also guarantees Luigi will make it back if used right. Floating is ok. I still think the original Green missile is horrible. Half the distance for a bit more damage. I'd rather use combos to rack damage then GM or reply on a 1/10 misfire.


But I never considered burial head. It looks too predictable to be of use. But with Luigi's slightly buffed F smash, it might be a nice alternative.

 

[hey_there]

I agree with everything except quick missile being the worst missile. The recovery distance is just far too amazing and also guarantees Luigi will make it back if used right. Floating is ok. I still think the original Green missile is horrible. Half the distance for a bit more damage. I'd rather use combos to rack damage then GM or reply on a 1/10 misfire.


But I never considered burial head. It looks too predictable to be of use. But with Luigi's slightly buffed F smash, it might be a nice alternative.

Like I said, try out Burial Header in training and get used to being deep underneath or way above the ledge before using it, then play some matches with it =).

Fair enough on the missiles. I'm still not a fan of QM but I guess that's just preference.

 

[Luigi#1]

Neutral B: Bouncing.
Side B: Floating.
Up B: Burial header. Dear god this one is fantastic.
Down B: Normally choose clothesline, sometimes other.

 

[Folt]

My choices:

B: All of them.
Side B: Floating Missile.
Up B: Super Jump Punch normally, but I also make use of Burial Header.
Down B: Luigi Cyclone.

I tend to make builds based on giving all these custom moves uses with each other.

 

[ThunderSt0rm]

Imo the only customs Luigi needs are Quick Missle and Mach Tornado. Default fireball and upb are already solid enough and contribute to his game.

I see some dislike for Quick Missle but people need to realize that Luigi's main weakness is recovery. He might as well be Falco offstage now because of how poor and predictable his recovery options are. Quick Missle and Mach Tornado fix this issue. With them you WILL recover from pretty much anywhere, and this is even before using your jump as Mach Tornado allows you to rise greatly without jumping.

The increased chance to get stuck in the wall with Quick Missle is slightly annoying, but I'd rather that than not even reaching the stage at all. Plus due to how insane it is as a recovery option, you should be able to still recover even if they hit you while in the wall.

Initially I used these moves solely for recovery purposes. As I played I started noticing how strong Mach Tornado was. I'd be edguarding people with it and killing extremely early. It is a very useful edgeguarding tool because you are able to go below them offstage and then rise into their general recovery path and hit with an ignorantly strong hitbox resulting in early kills.

The tradeoff for losing default downb is definitely worth it, but both moves have their benefits. It's not like you're losing a vital option when using Mach Tornado as your bnb should be dthrow anyway.