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critiques pleaseee

MexicanBJ

Smash Journeyman
Joined
Nov 24, 2008
Messages
211
trust me, you don't, and if you really do, go to the "i'm pissed" thread in the "melee discussion" section
 

elvenarrow3000

Smash Master
Joined
Jul 22, 2007
Messages
3,308
Okay, I'm watching the first match.

You roll a lot... you don't really get punished that much for it at the moment, but it's just something to watch for.

If they're on the ground, it's fine to run over to them, but... at least face them. If your back is to them, you can't shield grab the get up attack. I guess you could shield it, wavedash out of shield and then grab, but why waste the effort?

Use your invincibility frames to ledge hop attacks. I can't emphasize this enough. When you ledge hop, you're using up your double jump, so you REALLY don't want to get hit out of it. Ledge stall or something first, make sure you have you invincibility frames, THEN ledge hop.

Also, as cool and useful as the ledge hop nair is, keep in mind that there's other stuff you can ledge hop that works better in other situations. Like your first one probably should've been a uair. And for reaching further into the stage, I like fairs. But that's my preference. Uair advice still stands, by the way.

Good jab against the Illusion, and good thinking with the Counter, but you should really either drop and hit him with a fair while he's charging the Fire Fox or grab the edge and hit him with a dair/bair when he comes back up. Then you won't have to deal with ledge techs and such.

Wow. Good reaction against the second Illusion. But still, he shoulda been dead already =P

Um. lolwut? Either way, you should try to go for something like a ledge dash grab or just get up grab. Nair won't help you much, since it won't send him off the other side of the stage, and really, just tacks on a little more damage whereas you could be edge guarding.

Stop killing yourself.

After hitting with a fair at low/medium percentages, you should be able to grab. Grabs against Fox are good.

Yeah, that's how you edge guard Fox. Stick it to him! Just don't get hit next time =P You don't have to go out that far, just put yourself in a position where he can't get past you. You have a sword, use it!

You play a little too defensively. Shield less, roll less and put on more pressure. Dash dance where you're shielding/rolling and you'll be much more in control of the match.

Wavedashes are cool, but Marth has a pretty long dash dance. So just dash dance grab. It's faster at the distances you're using it at and it's more adaptable.

Good try with the tech read, but even if he had rolled in the right way... he's at twelve. You're not going to kill him with an fsmash, fully charged, tippered, whatever. Dash dance around and try to get another grab him. Tech chasing is fairly easy near the ledge.

Looks like you got nervous on that last stock. Don't. Just play it like you did the whole game (minus the suicides) and don't look for the kill earlier than you can get it.
 

MexicanBJ

Smash Journeyman
Joined
Nov 24, 2008
Messages
211
ok most of that advice sounds really good and useful

a couple of points i dont quite understand.

for example, what are you saying with the ledge invincibility? what am i doing wrong?

and what are you talking about with the "ledge dash grad or just get up grab"?

thanks a lot for the advice.

edit: also, for when you say i should run off and fair instead of fsmash cuz of teching.......wasn't he kind low for that?
 

elvenarrow3000

Smash Master
Joined
Jul 22, 2007
Messages
3,308
Well when you grab the ledge, you get invincibility for thirty-one frames. I believe grabbing the edge makes it so you can't do anything for... seven frames, or something like that. If you're fast enough (which isn't hard, considering you have like a twenty-four frame window, you can ledge hop an attack while still invincible, which covers you much better.

The instance I was talking about, which, in retrospect, I shoulda cited a time... it's like 1:17, the Fox had Illusioned over you onto the stage and you tried to ledge hop a nair but screwed up and died. There I woulda recommended that you either stand up (I think you were below a hundred) and grabbed him, or ledge hopped into a waveland to grab, because even if you had connected with the nair, he was only at 108. Which isn't going to kill him/send him off the other side, so essentially, you just get a little damage out of it, whereas if you had grabbed, you coulda put him into an edge guardable position.

Don't underestimate Marth's recovery. You can make it back from a lot. Just drop down, double jump and fair, then Dolphin Slash back. You can make it a long ways. Anyway, if you really do think he's too far down, at least go from the ledge and ledge hop dair spike him. Most Foxes and Falcos these days can/should be able to ledge tech. Alternately, you could dtilt instead of fsmashing, which is harder to tech and will put you in a good position to fair him to death.
 
Joined
Sep 6, 2005
Messages
1,715
Location
Rexburg, Idaho
Yea...stop rolling. PLEASE. Your spacing needs work. A Marth that spaces well is sexy. It's also one of the hardest things in the game to get around, since he has more range than most characters. Yea, spacing needs a lot of work. Once you get that down, you'll be twice as good just from that. And don't be so predictable. Mix it up a bit.
 

MexicanBJ

Smash Journeyman
Joined
Nov 24, 2008
Messages
211
how do i work on spacing?

and can you please elaborate on the being too predictable stuff (i know im too predictable when coming back from the edge)

also, elven: so basically for the ledge drop attack, do it faster than i am??
 

Heart Break Kid

Smash Lord
Joined
Mar 15, 2006
Messages
1,461
Location
Maplewood,NJ
As far as too predictable stuff I can only think people are talking about your approaoch. Most of the time you always approach with nair. (I only watched the first match though)

Basically Marth doesnt kill horizontally, especially against Fox. If your able to control the space around you then you'll be able to work your opoponent off the stage. Thats where its easiest to kill fox, but you probably know that.

Like I think you wouldve won the match but around 2:56 of the first match instead of wrking the Fox towards the ledge you predicted his tech and fsmashed him back towards the middle of the stage.

One technique thats useful wen you had the grab is to dthrow then turn around dtilt. Basically you cover all of Fox's tech options. He could go off the stage in which you could follow into an edgeguard but if he techs in place or doesnt tech at all the dtilt will hit him off the stage. The only other thing Fox could do is to tech back towards mid stage, which allows you to re-grab him cuz Marth's dtilt has those stupid frames which I forget at the moment. Just something to try nxt time.

The only way I can think to practice your spacing is too just play more people. Eventually your going to get punished for not spacing well enough.

One last thing I can think of is Marth has the most priority above and in front of him IIRC. So basically on smaller levels like FoD and Yoshis I like to SFFHL up airs in place and occasionally up tilt when you feel like the fox is going to approach you from above. If you catch him you can follow up with basic combos and sometimes you catch them out of there second jump which is a bonus.

Lol as far as the 5th match goes well yea a secondary is a must because Marth sucks onstages that aren't nuetral.
 

elvenarrow3000

Smash Master
Joined
Jul 22, 2007
Messages
3,308
Spacing just know the very extent of your range on like... fairs, jabs, dtilts, fsmashes, utilts, uairs... those are probably the big ones. Nair would be good to learn too.

Well what you're doing for the ledge hop right now is grabbing the ledge, waiting a bit, then ledge hopping the nair. What you need to do is grab the ledge then get go immediately and double jump into your attack to make sure you're invincible during as much of it as possible.

EDIT: Wow, ninja'd by Heart Break Kid. Anyway, what he's talking about on the dtilt are the IASA frames. That's Interruptable As Soon As. I'm pretty sure you can do basically anything out of the dtilt on frame twenty and it hits seven to nine. Basically, you can dtilt after a throw and still be able to react, even if the dtilt didn't connect.
 

elvenarrow3000

Smash Master
Joined
Jul 22, 2007
Messages
3,308
If you were me and I were you, you'd think that I was a girl too. Circumstances, circumstances.
 

DtJ Jungle

Check out my character in #GranblueFantasy
BRoomer
Joined
Jul 29, 2008
Messages
24,020
Location
Grancypher
wait LOL so even since Brainjack and i had those spam wars...this whole time you thought iw as a girl?

wow.
 

elvenarrow3000

Smash Master
Joined
Jul 22, 2007
Messages
3,308
I don't think I thought of it that much back then. Probably just after you got the pink name.
 

DtJ Jungle

Check out my character in #GranblueFantasy
BRoomer
Joined
Jul 29, 2008
Messages
24,020
Location
Grancypher
:(

owh...i dont really know what you mean by 'types liek a girl' tho :/

if its the pink name...oh wellz :)
 

elvenarrow3000

Smash Master
Joined
Jul 22, 2007
Messages
3,308
All the smiley/sad faces don't really help your case...

It's not that bad though. At least I know you're a guy now and I didn't hit on your or anything. Man, that woulda been awkward. Also, we should stop spamming these boards.
 

DtJ Jungle

Check out my character in #GranblueFantasy
BRoomer
Joined
Jul 29, 2008
Messages
24,020
Location
Grancypher
lolol very trufax about the smiley sad faces

agreed. we've had conversations about illinois, my gender, and lot of other rand(x) stuff.

thank you for not hitting on me
 
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