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Critique My Sheik Please!

C

crate

Smash Rookie
Joined
Apr 23, 2007
Messages
18
Location
Oberlin, OH
Well first of all you have to stop killing yourself in various ways. Ledgehopping a fair against Marth is very risky and is often equivalent to suiciding. It's usually much better to wavedash onto the stage and attack from there than to ledgehop a fair. Only ledgehop attack if you're absolutely sure it will hit.

Match 1:

Fulljump needles is really dangerous against several characters but especially Marth. Shorthop them instead.

Pretty awful DI on both those forward smashes on the first stock.

The edgeguard that lost you your second stock was basically a suicide too, I'm pretty sure Marth was dead from just an edgehog.

And then another suicide on the last stock....

Match 2:

At the very start, after the uthrow, your only goal should have been to land and get your midair jump back. You instead fall through the platform and get repeatedly utilted.

First death = suicide again....

1:28-ish: in my experience it's always best to jump right away after a Marth uthrow so you don't get utilted like this. But the Marth didn't follow up all that well either.

1:55 I like light shielding when I'm on a platform above Marth since it deals with utilts nicely.

2:00 You should have been dead for ledgehop-fairing there but the Marth messed up the edgeguard pretty bad.

Second death: I always go for the stage if Marth is edgehogging, since a good Marth will stay on the edge long enough to edgehog you anyway.

2:53 Very risky attacking instead of landing, and with almost zero potential gain from it. Had that utilt hit before your dair, that could have been 60% or a stock; best you could possibly hope for is the trade you got, which is still bad for you.

3:26 You died and I shouldn't even have to say whose fault it was any more.

Third match was more of the same.

Overall you do okay onstage but then you just suicide away your stock in various ways.... I think I saw maybe two or three deaths which were not mostly you doing something ridiculously stupid and getting punished, and if you take those away you win pretty handily. Hard to say what you're doing wrong onstage when almost all of what you do there works.
 
LooksLikePit

LooksLikePit

Smash Ace
Joined
Nov 6, 2008
Messages
903
Location
Altadena, CA
Maybe I will get my friend to upload some better videos of me. Those matches were biased as **** because a lot of videos were recorded
 
soap

soap

Smash Hero
Joined
Jan 24, 2006
Messages
7,229
Location
Cleveland, Ohio
only watched the first one

besides for the rofl sd's, u run into alot of obvious fairs, do running shield more, or just dash dance grab every whiff.

no need to challenge marth down there without invincibilty frames either

i have a pretty **** edgeguard trick on marth, but im not gonna tell u
 
WHA?

WHA?

Smash Ace
Joined
Aug 5, 2008
Messages
544
Location
818
im not great or anything but i saw a couple of mistakes
-u ran toward marth when he had just come back and had his invincibility frames.......
-need more b-air
-and u seemed to not choose the best move in a situation (like using ftilt out of shield instead of nair or bair ouit of shield)
 
soap

soap

Smash Hero
Joined
Jan 24, 2006
Messages
7,229
Location
Cleveland, Ohio
elvenarrow3000 said:
Lightshield edgehog?
Click to expand...
nope thats not it. i was thinking of pulling a cactuar and keeping my tricks all to myself, but i love to share.:)

basically u do the variation of the ledgestall without the explosion, i.e. u fastfall for a split second then upb and grab the ledge with the first jump of the upb, this lets u grab the ledge way earlier on the way up. (like that thing i do on the corneria fin in that old vid i made)

Now i am not sure if this variation is completely invincible im almost positive that it isnt. when i gave it the brinstar test, i could dip into the lava unscathed, but when completely submerged i always got hit which means there is a slight vulnerability right before u regrab, but the point is that u regrab faster and thus can reset faster.

now when u get marth off and u sh needle turn and edgehog, or backthrow wavedash fastfall edgehog, u now drop off into a fastfall and 90% of marths will now fastfall to the the bottommost range of their recovery to avoid your bair then upb sweetspot to the ledge. u then just upb regrab the ledge, or if u went low enough double jump upb regrab and simply edgehog them to their deaths, ive killed marths with this at laughably low percents.

Had u followed them all the way down u get hit by his upb likely and prolly die, moral of the story dont be greedy unless they blatantly overb and leave themselves open for a bair, otherwise u use this trick to scare them and get easy kills.

u can also just keep doing the quick fastfall reset and they will be either edgehogged cuz u almost always regrab first cuz there is a slight delay for marth to regrab cuz he has to be on the way down, u grab on the way up. or they land on the stage and u dair combo, or once they realize that they have to recover onto the stage u just start ledgehopping invincible nair. this is very similar to the fox/falco firefox stall edgehog games. problem with fox is the fire saves people sometimes too.

this is much superior to the upb stall with the explosion cuz obviously the explosion can save them and that one has a larger window for them to reach the ledge before u, then u die. and i like this more than rolling into lightshield because it is more aggresive and accomplishes the same thing in more situations. if they have good DI they will not always be forced to recover low and the lightshield trick doesnt really work. but hanging from the ledge they will be scared of your bair and be forced low.

(wow alotta stuff just flowed out there, its good stuff though, promise)
 
elvenarrow3000

elvenarrow3000

Smash Master
Joined
Jul 22, 2007
Messages
3,308
Well, you have to be playing... a) against a Marth b) who's expecting the bair and c) who fastfalls to avoid attacks.
 
NeighborhoodP

NeighborhoodP

Smash Hero
Joined
Jul 24, 2006
Messages
8,199
Location
SoCal
so basically you have to be playing a good marth

honestly i think the only way around that is to fast ball and upb so you barely get the stage. i mean i play marth and that would totally **** me. normally sheiks are bad and love to bair no matter what angle you take, so you can read it and either adjust your route or go high and dodge and get the ledge.

i am pretty good with marth and i think i'm pretty decent v sheik, but honestly every time i play a sheik, i am just amazed at how hard the matchup is. even though i can beat any sheik in socal, because none of them are that good, it's still hard as ****. so stupid.
 
elvenarrow3000

elvenarrow3000

Smash Master
Joined
Jul 22, 2007
Messages
3,308
I dunno, if the Marth saw you going for the edge he might doublejump fair you to force you off it, and since you canceled the ledgegrab, you'd get hit so... eh, case by case, I guess.
 
soap

soap

Smash Hero
Joined
Jan 24, 2006
Messages
7,229
Location
Cleveland, Ohio
ur right u never said that, i just remember u saying the reason u an m2k dont record matches is cuz u like to keep strats secret until tourney

id personally love to see some new random m2k cactuar marth ditto friendlies, like i wanna see exactly how that DI down and grab marth out of his chaingrab looks and stuff like that. scar records tons of crap im sure he wouldnt mind next time u guys get together. hmm but u wouldnt fall for his normal stuff.... i dont know what i would get out those vids actually
 
soap

soap

Smash Hero
Joined
Jan 24, 2006
Messages
7,229
Location
Cleveland, Ohio
elvenarrow3000 said:
I dunno, if the Marth saw you going for the edge he might doublejump fair you to force you off it, and since you canceled the ledgegrab, you'd get hit so... eh, case by case, I guess.
Click to expand...
backthrow marth at the ledge then wavedash fastfall edgehog, like 95% of the time the marth will be to slow to hit u, then when they dj fair u just ledgehop bair through it with invincibility. ledge is broken, which is why i prefer actually getting to the edge instead of sitting their lightshielding, it puts u in more of a power position.

P is right thats what marths eventually start to do to get around, fastfall then upb barely onto the stage, but u still get a free dair/grab combo, or u can just keep getting up and backthrowing and play games with their head, or ledgehop invinc. nair right through it.

the marth edgeguard on sheik is pretty lame too but the difference is u only have to guess right once or twice as sheik for the kill, marth has to hit u like five + times without messing up.
 
soap

soap

Smash Hero
Joined
Jan 24, 2006
Messages
7,229
Location
Cleveland, Ohio
dont go out of your way to record stuff, but if someone just happens to be recording dont not record

actually ive recorded and uploaded stuff for other people, i know how long it takes to encode, cut, and upload stuff and i honestly never want to do it again.
 
soap

soap

Smash Hero
Joined
Jan 24, 2006
Messages
7,229
Location
Cleveland, Ohio
ahhhh! socal invasion

i should do a semester out in cali, id prolly get really good at this game.

i wanna go to norcal and learn how to dropzone knee
 
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