Critique my Olimar - Tourney finals

[DGMavn]

Hey y'all,

My college just had a smallish (~32 player) tourney and I have vids of my Olimar against my friend's Lucas/MK in the finals. We're looking for some critiques on both sides, so...do it! Thanks in advance.

Finals 1 DGMavn (Olimar) vs. Arc (Lucas) http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FPQNEwKcBHU
Finals 2 DGMavn (Olimar) vs. Arc (MK) http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tXKRKvpxT5o

Break my bad habits, please.

-DGM

Edit: Second video up, first video disappeared. If the second one goes away, let me know and I'll try hosting it on rapidshare or some such. First vid should be back up.

 

[Zombie Lucille Ball]

video unavailable

 

[DGMavn]

Grr. It was working a few minutes ago.

 

[Newtwarrior]

+1 For jersey brawlers

Keansburg Represent yo

Can't wait to see

 

[keeper]

The Lucas one doesn't work, but the MK one does.

From watching, I'd say you need to be less ground bound. When you know him up in the air, instead always going for the Usmash, try going for a Uair, especially at a lower percent. I'd just say try more aerials.

 

[scalpel]

You know, I think you handled that battle with Meta Knight very well. I mean, you did everything that I would do, in your situation. You kept your distance. You used a lot of forward-smashes to get past Meta Knight's disjointed hit box. I thought your decisions were very appropriate. I can't really give any more constructive criticism, besides punishing Meta Knight's special attacks. You can grab Meta Knight while he is using his neutral-B special.

 

[DGMavn]

From watching, I'd say you need to be less ground bound. When you know him up in the air, instead always going for the Usmash, try going for a Uair, especially at a lower percent. I'd just say try more aerials.

I find that hyphen-usmashing is easier/quicker at low percentages - I usually bust out my uairs at mid to high percentages when I'm not guaranteed a usmash chase. Plus, it mindgames better into uair chases and then up-B chasing at high %s. I do need to investigate how to land more aerials, though - my main problem right now is that I use my smashes so much that they decay to ~70% effectiveness by the time I get anyone to potential killing percentages. Plus, a lot of my kills come from fairs with red/yellow pikmin.

You know, I think you handled that battle with Meta Knight very well. I mean, you did everything that I would do, in your situation. You kept your distance. You used a lot of forward-smashes to get past Meta Knight's disjointed hit box. I thought your decisions were very appropriate. I can't really give any more constructive criticism, besides punishing Meta Knight's special attacks. You can grab Meta Knight while he is using his neutral-B special.

Well, I made my feelings on his neutral B known during the match. =P Thanks for the tip, though - I particularly despise Mach Tornado since it's impossible to DI out of.

 

[Delere]

I find that hyphen-usmashing is easier/quicker at low percentages - I usually bust out my uairs at mid to high percentages when I'm not guaranteed a usmash chase. Plus, it mindgames better into uair chases and then up-B chasing at high %s. I do need to investigate how to land more aerials, though - my main problem right now is that I use my smashes so much that they decay to ~70% effectiveness by the time I get anyone to potential killing percentages. Plus, a lot of my kills come from fairs with red/yellow pikmin.



Well, I made my feelings on his neutral B known during the match. =P Thanks for the tip, though - I particularly despise Mach Tornado since it's impossible to DI out of.

From what I can see, you're a very good Olimar player. I only watched the Lucas video however, don't have time for the second so I have to write a speedy reply.

The two things that I can see your problems are go hand in hand. You don't use enough aerials and you overuse your smash attacks. Short hop -> any of Oli's aerials is a good combo.

Just use a lot more aerials and you'll be a lot better off. I usually KO opponents at ~100%, because I use so many aerials and dthrow combos to rack up damage instead of smashes. I only use fsmash or usmash if I'm being pressured a lot and need some space or time to pluck pikmin. 75% of the time my first usmash will be with a purple/blue going for the kill.

 

[scalpel]

Okay I just finished watching your battle with Lucas. First of all, that was not a very good Lucas. I'm sorry, but that Lucas was mediocre, at best. He used way too many PK Thunders, and not enough PK Fires.

Also, I noticed you DI'd above Lucas a lot. Don't do this... because Lucas has an extremely powerful up-smash. You're probably aware of this already, seeing that you lost a stock or two because of Lucas's up-smash.

 

[Arc-Impulse]

Okay I just finished watching your battle with Lucas. First of all, that was not a very good Lucas. I'm sorry, but that Lucas was mediocre, at best. He used way too many PK Thunders, and not enough PK Fires.

I was the Lucas that played against him; if you don't mind, could you elaborate on what I did wrong? PK Fires *appear* to be too slow, and he often dodges and counters almost every time. I'm always looking for criticism to improve.

 

[keeper]

I was the Lucas that played against him; if you don't mind, could you elaborate on what I did wrong? PK Fires *appear* to be too slow, and he often dodges and counters almost every time. I'm always looking for criticism to improve.

While I haven't watched the video, I will say that Lucas's PK Fire is a great move to spam as it moves fast and pushes you back slightly so you can better keep your spacing. They kill Pikmin too and leave you less open than a missed PK Thunder.

 

[shanus]

i watched it for a short time and already saw some problems with your play. Overall, your wayyyyy too stationary and repetitive with your attacks to the point where its predictable after even watching one match. Additionally, you roll WAYYYY too much. Overall, add more variety in your approaches, especially when fighting lucas as keeping the pressure on lucas is key to getting the kill. Against MK, its cool to be campy, but still, your wayyy too smash dependent. Try and get your game more aerial based and then add variety into your pikmin over+b spams by mixing in f/d-smashes to punish their approaches.

Hope this helps.

 

[scalpel]

I was the Lucas that played against him; if you don't mind, could you elaborate on what I did wrong? PK Fires *appear* to be too slow, and he often dodges and counters almost every time. I'm always looking for criticism to improve.

Well, a good way to get around the cool-down lag of Lucas's PK fire is to short-hop and PK fire in the air. You can also be a bit more defensive by performing short-hopped PK fires and pulling back, at the same time. With this strategy, you can pull off a decent ranged battle with Olimar. This will also force most Olimars to play defensively, as well, but it's good to add variety to your fighting.

Also, I recommend not over-using PK thunder, as a clever opponent can easily punish Lucas while he's completely immobile during the PK thunder animation.

 

[Arc-Impulse]

Awesome, thanks for the advice, I'll see if I can work more PK fires into the mix. To be honest, I was incredibly nervous for my Lucas fight against him. We play against each other all the time and he beats me about 90% of the time.. Making it to the finals in a tournament without losing only to play him was a bit nerve racking. That probably explains my over use of pk thunders to do a kind of 'hit and run' game with him.

 

[DGMavn]

i watched it for a short time and already saw some problems with your play. Overall, your wayyyyy too stationary and repetitive with your attacks to the point where its predictable after even watching one match. Additionally, you roll WAYYYY too much. Overall, add more variety in your approaches, especially when fighting lucas as keeping the pressure on lucas is key to getting the kill. Against MK, its cool to be campy, but still, your wayyy too smash dependent. Try and get your game more aerial based and then add variety into your pikmin over+b spams by mixing in f/d-smashes to punish their approaches.

Hope this helps.

What aerials do you suggest I approach with? I'm not a huge fan of the fair or the bair due to their range, and I like the nair as an approach, but it's got very little knockback.

Also, how do I reduce the lag on the sideB? Oftentimes in the middle of my sideB spam, my pikmin will get knocked away and I'll get hit during the cooldown.

 

[scalpel]

Also, how do I reduce the lag on the sideB? Oftentimes in the middle of my sideB spam, my pikmin will get knocked away and I'll get hit during the cooldown.

Hi there, mate! When you mention lag on Olimar's Pikmin Throw, do you mean the time it takes for the Pikmin to return to Olimar? Or, do you mean the actual animation lag when Olimar is throwing Pikmin? I have a feeling you're talking about the latter. This shouldn't be much of an issue, because the cool-down lag is so small. If there is adequate space between you and your opponent, you should have plenty of time to punish your opponent when he approaches you after a Pikmin Throw. The only possibility, that I see, of getting attacked while throwing Pikmin is from being too close to your opponent.

 

[shanus]

What aerials do you suggest I approach with? I'm not a huge fan of the fair or the bair due to their range, and I like the nair as an approach, but it's got very little knockback.

Also, how do I reduce the lag on the sideB? Oftentimes in the middle of my sideB spam, my pikmin will get knocked away and I'll get hit during the cooldown.

fair and bair are great for punishing off an approach. The key is to not just go straight into their shield, but wait for a small move while you approach and punish with it. Fair and bair are fantastic, don't be afraid to use it. Just don't overuse it like I do hahaha

 

[scalpel]

fair and bair are great for punishing off an approach. The key is to not just go straight into their shield, but wait for a small move while you approach and punish with it. Fair and bair are fantastic, don't be afraid to use it. Just don't overuse it like I do hahaha

Shanus gives a great suggestion. You could even try latching a Pikmin onto your opponent first, then approach with a forward-air. The goal is to distract your opponent by throwing Pikmin, in order to make your approach safer.

 

[Psyflame]

Hmm. A couple things, after watching the Lucas match. First of all, you need to be aware of each character's capabilities - know that you need to dodge the PK Thunder boost, the upsmash, et cetera. Also, vary up your play style some more and keep him guessing - I amused myself for a little while calling out what moves you would use before you used them. Not that you're a bad player; you handled both matches well. However, against more skilled opponents, you'll definitely be punished for predictability.

 

[DGMavn]

I amused myself for a little while calling out what moves you would use before you used them.

Yikes. O.o Like I said, we know each other's matchup pretty well, but yeah, habits and predictability are pretty bad, and that seems to be the general sense that I'm getting.

Next mission: watch NC-Echo vids and compile a list of viable approaches to mix that up, at least.

 

[Psyflame]

Well, don't take it that badly; I was really just calling out what I would have thought first in your situation. Just saying that if your opponent knows Olimar well it would pay to mix your game up.

 

[lonelytraveler8]

I saw that you mentioned the lag on the Pikmin Throw. There's very little, so that shouldn't be an issue unless you're too close to the opponent (like someone mentioned above).

Also, it's personal preference, but I like to SH my Pikmin Throws and move around to keep my opponent guessing. Often times, between my moving around while throwing and the Pikmin that latch on, the opponent makes mistakes, which are easy to Punish with one of his aerials or smashes.

 

[fkacyan]

This is a Ness / Lucas specific tip, but if you latch a Pikmin onto them they can't use their PK Thunder recover.

Aside from that, in the Lucas battle you did relatively well, but as has been mentioned, that wasn't that good of a Lucas. One of the things I noticed was that you were very timid at the edge, which is reasonable most of the time, but in this case you could have KO'd him several times while he was trying to PK-Thunder tackle you. I liked that last spike, though.

Also, I'm not sure if you know about the Pikmin color specialties, but you want to Smash with Red or Purple, Grab with blue, and build damage with White. It appears Yellow may be the best air attackers, but I haven't tested it that much yet. Olimar's Blue backthrow is one of the stronger ones in the game - It can KO a Zelda, Peach, and ZSS at roughly 90%.

Another general tip is to keep using his Pikmin Throw at pretty much all times. This will absorb a lot of hits, and keep racking up damage. Plus, any Pikmin they kill are easily replaced quickly, so it's not a big deal. Don't apply this to MK, he has way too many ways to eat through Pikmin.

 

[Zombie Lucille Ball]

just watched the metaknight vid... you have the basics down of olimar... camp like a mofo, C STICK LOTS, take advantage of his priority, shield grab ect. One thing I noticed is you didn't downthrow combo very much... for example, only backthrow if your opponent is really high % or you have a gimping opportunity (not very likely with metaknight), If you grab them any other time, downthrow to running upsmash or Fair is a great thing.

 

[dmauro]

You roll too much. I know because I do the same thing.

Pay attention to what Pikmin is one deck. You were constantly using your reds and yellows to back throw, and tossing your blues. You'll get better mileage from your reds and yellows if you down throw and when you need to KO, just grab and back throw with your blue pikmin (you had a real hard time getting KOs, even when you were racking up damage easily).

Also, don't be so afraid to edge guard. You could have gimped MK when he used his drill attack and went off the ledge. Run to the edge and up b for a quick grab.

Oh, and watch out for MK's gliding attack. It has surprising range is good knockback. Up b to hit him first if you have to.

 

[hardcore]

As others might've stated, that Lucas wasn't playing top-notch and pressuring you like one would.
As for your playstyle, it's pretty much been covered, utilize your aerials more, don't repeat attacks too often.

You did good.

 

[yule4]

For the Olimar:
Very repetitive play, get away from the constant d- and f-smash.. too predictable.. instead use more aerial game with f-air b-air while approaching. instead of the constant rolling use more shield grab and take advantage of the ridiculous range on oli's grab. another thing, when your connecting with attacks, keep the pressure on, throw off the rhythm of your oppenent. oh and when you do roll, mix up wih u-smash and d-smash, cause a connected up-smash can be deadly .. well played though, and nice spike!

Lucas:
Short hop - PK fire.. you'll notice a huge difference.. and same with olimar, you just love rolling around right into his smashs.. could try spot dodging here and lay down a viciosu f-smash.. and approach with short hop PK fire, i'm telling you! haha too bad with the spike..

 

[DGMavn]

Thanks everyone for the advice.

I'll be uploading more vids soon enough. I've found approaching Arc to be much more difficult now that he's SHPKFing, though he's reluctant to try b-sticking.

Mixing in aerial approaches and dash grabs has helped a lot too in terms of predictability - and I realized the problem with spacing my sideb was just my spacing (Lucas' nair approach allows him to basically eat through my zoning, so I have to make sure I'm at the correct range so as to not get naired after throwing Pikmin.)

 

[Zombie Lucille Ball]

FYI don't listen TOO much to the people saying "too repetitive", "too many smashes", because the c stick is pretty much the core of Olimar's game.

 

[fkacyan]

What Cog said. That move is less predictable than one would think due to variable ranges and hitboxes.

Also, they're so fast that you're almost never going to get punished either.

 

[scalpel]

I've found approaching Arc to be much more difficult now that he's SHPKFing, though he's reluctant to try b-sticking.

Maybe I shouldn't have given him that bit of advice...

Just kidding.

 

[Zombie Lucille Ball]

what the super smash brothers melee fox falco marth

 

[zelazon]

okay, here's a bit of advice that you should use (read this when the words change back)

In the match against lucas, I noticed that you proceeded excellently with the Fsmashes and the Fair... but that's all your game was capable of. I didn't see any Dsmashes, nor combo's out of the Dthrow, which is olimar's tool for combo central.

It's vital to learn some of olimar combos in order to kill them at those percentages. I gurantee you if you had started with the textbook combo (or other combo, as mentioned in my guide), then that one time where he got caught in your smash attack, you would have had his life in you hands.

if you want to see what I'm talking about, view a couple of my vids.

www.youtube.com/zelazon

 

[knight41]

try grabing then throwing down and following with an aerial attack more. i agree with keeper use more aerials