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Critique my Marth (need advice) for playing Ganon's

Lesheik

Smash Lord
Joined
Jun 23, 2006
Messages
1,163
Location
SoCal
http://www.getyourtournament.com/400586.html

I haven't played many Ganondorf players since I started playing Smash, but I thought I could take this guy. Can someone tell me what I did wrong? I only saw some of the stuff I did that messed me up, but it was only minor mistakes, I can't find anything major I did wrong.

Can someone please tell me what I did wrong? Thanks :)
 

DEHF

Smash Champion
Joined
Dec 14, 2006
Messages
2,261
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reseda CA
NNID
larrlurr
in your first video you should have tried to keep him above you by using those platforms being that you are a marth and marth ***** when characters are below him

You can get ganon to good damage with marth's f air combos and it would help you if you use the up throw to an u tilt to put damage on him

you should also improve your spacing because when ever you tryed to f air or n air you go right into his grabs

your up b recovery was horrible there were too many times where you landed directly onto the stage which gave him a free hit. You also did a good job of saving your jump until you got to the edge

Try not to forward smash unless your sure you can get a hit off of your opponent because if you miss you're giving your opponent a free hit which is not good against a ganon since ALL of his moves has great knockback

Being that you are a marth you can easily keep character off the stage when they are trying to recover especaially a ganon. I was shocked when I saw the opportunities you had to take kill him when he was off the edge and you didn't. Your best move when edgeguarding is marth's d tilt and forward smash

Hope that helps :)
 

DEHF

Smash Champion
Joined
Dec 14, 2006
Messages
2,261
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reseda CA
NNID
larrlurr
I said it in the previous post use the d tilt or forward smash and it's easier to do against a ganon because his recovery will not hurt you if he is going for the edge
 

trademark0013

Smash Champion
Joined
Jan 30, 2006
Messages
2,067
Location
South Africa, playing in the World Cup
i didnt watch the vids cuz i'm lazy, but...

marth has the best edgeguarding in the game. u have infiite options:
fsmash
counter
fair
ledgehopped bair
reverse up-b
dair



jus learn what u can do in what situations and abuse ur power

vs ganons: jus do the same thing u do vs everyone else - CGing. ganons not that hard (i'm a peach main so i wouldnt kno that for sure. but when i mained marth ganon was easy)
learn how to space cuz ur range is great
 

Miggz

Pancake Sandwiches
Joined
May 28, 2007
Messages
1,473
Location
Bermuda [We Gotz De Triangle]
Well...you gota first work on yah speed. Marth can move faster then that. I saw some dash dancing, which was good, but some of your follow ups were not that effective, but fear not...everything takes practice. Trying doing spaced SHFFL Fairs/double fairs out of a dash dance, along with grabs and dancing blade, or even a wavedash back. Mix it up a bit. To do a space fair, just jump, forward A, DI with your analog stick, flick he C-Stick Forward and then l cancel. That should prevent you from getting shield grabbed. ;)

Your lag canceling needs a bit of work. Both you and your opponent missed some which made you both a bit slower then usual. Now as for edge guarding Ganon with Marth, just use your down tilt before he can touch the stage. A tipper hit should be enough to clam his stock. Or, you can stand near the edge of the stage, wavedash off the stage and bair him, or grab the edge, jump away and bair him that way. And as mentioned above, keep Ganon in the air with your uptilts. I noticed you messed up a bit and did Up smash instead, but that is a common Marth habit that will indeed pass over time. So yeah, you and your opponent should spend alone time in training mode and practice your cancels more. I find it better to train alone in training mode instead of practicing the cancels in battle. That Ganon was not too serious in the combo area. If he canceled right your Marth would have most likely eaten a down smash to a fair or some other aerial from Ganon.

So yeah, you have an idea to some degree what to do. Just gota keep at it. Good luck.
 

Lesheik

Smash Lord
Joined
Jun 23, 2006
Messages
1,163
Location
SoCal
Well...you gota first work on yah speed. Marth can move faster then that. I saw some dash dancing, which was good, but some of your follow ups were not that effective, but fear not...everything takes practice. Trying doing spaced SHFFL Fairs/double fairs out of a dash dance, along with grabs and dancing blade, or even a wavedash back. Mix it up a bit. To do a space fair, just jump, forward A, DI with your analog stick, flick he C-Stick Forward and then l cancel. That should prevent you from getting shield grabbed. ;)

Your lag canceling needs a bit of work. Both you and your opponent missed some which made you both a bit slower then usual. Now as for edge guarding Ganon with Marth, just use your down tilt before he can touch the stage. A tipper hit should be enough to clam his stock. Or, you can stand near the edge of the stage, wavedash off the stage and bair him, or grab the edge, jump away and bair him that way. And as mentioned above, keep Ganon in the air with your uptilts. I noticed you messed up a bit and did Up smash instead, but that is a common Marth habit that will indeed pass over time. So yeah, you and your opponent should spend alone time in training mode and practice your cancels more. I find it better to train alone in training mode instead of practicing the cancels in battle. That Ganon was not too serious in the combo area. If he canceled right your Marth would have most likely eaten a down smash to a fair or some other aerial from Ganon.

So yeah, you have an idea to some degree what to do. Just gota keep at it. Good luck.
Cool, thanks. :chuckle:
 

DynamicDuo

Smash Lord
Joined
Jun 22, 2006
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Gotham City
Yo lesheik change ur name to FSK (Foward. Smash. King lol) u kept doing that all the time which is bad cuz it will become predictable, just be patient and time ur fsmashes, dairs wouldn't hurt if u catch'em in the air.
 

FrostByte

Smash Lord
Joined
Nov 15, 2006
Messages
1,075
Location
London, England
Never just throw out a fair against ganon like that. Ganon usually double jumps around it and hits you with his own fair. Stay in the air a while longer to catch him out of his double jump with a fair or uair, depending on how high he is, then get him off the edge without a jump.
 

MeloDeath

Smash Apprentice
Joined
Apr 19, 2007
Messages
77
Location
Holland
pretty decent marth.
Some very simple improvement should make you alot better.
As said before, spacing: you need to use your aerials in such a way that you either land behind your opponent, so you wont get shieldgrabbed, or to do the aerial in the last possible time, coupled with a good l-cancel. the use of the latter technique is rather vague in most circumstances. what you can do is immediately dash through the opponent, then crouchcancel an fsmash (he's facing the other way, he cant quite punish you for it), or Dash through the opp. then dash back and grab him quickly.
Dont try so many shuffle double fairs, instead mix it up with full jumped double fairs.

Use uptilts, they **** a ganon pretty bad. All it takes is an upthrow and a ganon will pack about 30 damage and hopefully a tipper.

The thing that contributed most to your loss was your playing mentality as it seemed.
You wildly threw aerials around with no apparent strategy. I suggest you use more dash towards-wavedash back mindgames.

A little secret when playing 'Dorfs: use the double edge dance, only the first one. This will lift a ganon up with hit lagg and will make you able to Fsmash away at him.
Try to dashdance into this move.

Now a combination: you approach with a late shuffled Fair, dash through your opp. dash back, and swing a single edge dance at him (pun intended) and follow it up with: grab, fsmash, utilt, reverse UpB.

Now for the killing. Ganon has a quite predictable recovery. what will a ganon do? He will space himself diagonally below the stage, trying to max out his options for a sweetspotted ledgegrab. Take advantage of this knowledge.you can quite easily run off stage, FASTfall, and Fair, Bair or Reverse upB him, dependant on your relative positions.

And if you want to get really flashy, do the thing above, but hit him with a single edge dance, then double jump above him and spike him. xD the kizzu combo

hope this is helpfull
 

Lesheik

Smash Lord
Joined
Jun 23, 2006
Messages
1,163
Location
SoCal
pretty decent marth.
Some very simple improvement should make you alot better.
As said before, spacing: you need to use your aerials in such a way that you either land behind your opponent, so you wont get shieldgrabbed, or to do the aerial in the last possible time, coupled with a good l-cancel. the use of the latter technique is rather vague in most circumstances. what you can do is immediately dash through the opponent, then crouchcancel an fsmash (he's facing the other way, he cant quite punish you for it), or Dash through the opp. then dash back and grab him quickly.
Dont try so many shuffle double fairs, instead mix it up with full jumped double fairs.

Use uptilts, they **** a ganon pretty bad. All it takes is an upthrow and a ganon will pack about 30 damage and hopefully a tipper.

The thing that contributed most to your loss was your playing mentality as it seemed.
You wildly threw aerials around with no apparent strategy. I suggest you use more dash towards-wavedash back mindgames.

A little secret when playing 'Dorfs: use the double edge dance, only the first one. This will lift a ganon up with hit lagg and will make you able to Fsmash away at him.
Try to dashdance into this move.

Now a combination: you approach with a late shuffled Fair, dash through your opp. dash back, and swing a single edge dance at him (pun intended) and follow it up with: grab, fsmash, utilt, reverse UpB.

Now for the killing. Ganon has a quite predictable recovery. what will a ganon do? He will space himself diagonally below the stage, trying to max out his options for a sweetspotted ledgegrab. Take advantage of this knowledge.you can quite easily run off stage, FASTfall, and Fair, Bair or Reverse upB him, dependant on your relative positions.

And if you want to get really flashy, do the thing above, but hit him with a single edge dance, then double jump above him and spike him. xD the kizzu combo

hope this is helpfull
Wow. This helped me a lot! Thanks a lot, man. ;)
 

edgeswipe21

Smash Journeyman
Joined
Mar 11, 2007
Messages
280
ya definetly spacing.. that all that i could notice besides the other mistakes that u said u know.
 
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