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Critique my Marth. Me vs Steel2nd

Shade Strike

Smash Rookie
Joined
Jun 18, 2008
Messages
4
I have to say your Marth was exceptionaly good. But there were some things like you playing a little bit too much defense. I'm not saying that is a bad thing but you could try to break that habit a little and have balance of offensive and defensive skills. I really don't know your techniques, but I too play Marth. So try to switch between them. Thanks for your time.
 

Steel

Where's my Jameson?
BRoomer
Joined
Mar 30, 2008
Messages
7,587
Location
Los Angeles, CA
Feel free to critique me as well (again), ill try and analyze one of these vids later.
 

DireklianCliff

Smash Cadet
Joined
Jun 18, 2008
Messages
40
Location
Woodbridge, VA
Alright. I think I've got a feel for you after the first two vids.

Both of you had a strange playstyle. There were several times when your foe would be on the left side of the stage, and you would randomly SH and BAir to the right. This made little sense. The sporatic attacks at times even made it look like many of your actual strikes were more due to luck than intentional blows. I don't know how this came about, but many more experienced players will punish reckless play like this. And speaking of punish, there were plenty of times where it seemed Steel2nd's mistakes are what let you survive as long as you did.

First of all, I think your friend has a better grip of the basics than you do. There were several instances where Steel2nd reached the 100%+ range, which really shouldn't happen when you're playing as Marth. There were so many smashes that you didn't land that could have ended the game. And worse of all, you were punished for the worst of your mistakes. All in all, I think (when you were on top of your game) you did a good job racking up damage, but have a difficult time finishing your opponent. And that could also be a problem with the basics like spacing. You missed attacks, you were punished for not giving enough room, etc etc. I think if you watch Steel, you'll see how he used proper spacing to defeat you, particularly at 2:49 (first vid) where he downed you with 49%.

Considering how often you both used shields, I was amazed that I did not see more surprise Shield Breakers. Also, with what seems to be anticipated attacks (you dodged them afterall!), there were not as many Counters as I would have expected. Choice Counters would have easily thrown the match in your favor. Also, you really like to spam the Dancing Blade with the D-finish (for the multi-hits), but why not try and mix it up with the U-finish then follow with the UTilt? If the foe has higher damage, you could even Dancing Blade with the U-finish then follow up with a USmash to knock him way into the air. A few good FAirs and you could have him all the way to the edge and gimped to death.

Also, you can use the Dolphin Slash for punishing your foe for getting too close. I saw lots of shielding the Dancing Blade and such, and if you're close enough to grab, you're close enough to Dolphin Slash out of the shield. Doing this with high damage might even kill your opponent outright ... if nothing else will get him out of your face. Now granted, don't use this move unless you know you'll hit, because you can get punished if it misses.

Key points I want you to think on:
- More combos. Use the Forward-B to combo into tilts and smashes. Do something. Don't always let it be a single-strike-then-retreat scenario.
- Mix up your gameplay with a surprise Shield Breaker every now and then. If you get even one good Shield Breaker off when your opponent isn't expecting it, it can shatter their shield and give you a free KO. Beware overusing!
- Counter is a good way to reverse your fortunes. Beware overusing!
- Work on your basics! Your biggest problem is spacing and always dashing in. By improving your spacing, you'll get hit less often, be able to punish your foes more easily, and land more hits.
- Don't always dash in! Walking/running allows for a more varied assault and better reaction to whatever your foe throws at you. I'd save the dashes for when you need it.
- Don't attack in the opposite direction from your enemy. Vets will simply pound you for throwing out random attacks.

You're a moderate Marth player, but the basics are hindering you and keeping you from being a vet.
 

crazn137

Smash Journeyman
Joined
May 3, 2008
Messages
441
Location
Chicago, IL
Thanks, I looked back at the matches and noticed the problem with my basics. Started working on that about an hour ago ^^
 

Steel

Where's my Jameson?
BRoomer
Joined
Mar 30, 2008
Messages
7,587
Location
Los Angeles, CA
I was very sloppy in these vids, like Direklian stated I didn't really use walking at all. My normally patient approach would sometimes disappear in our fights. Oh well - anyway..

I punished you a lot more than you punished me. And I made a LOT of mistakes in these matches. So did you though, and most of the time I was there to retaliate (however there were times i failed to do so). Let me know if you want me to analyze one of these vids so you can get an in depth look at it.

Direklian: Was the majority of that post aimed at me as well? If not i'd like to know what you think of mine. I'm aware of my lack of counter and dolphin slash, but anything besides that.
 

DireklianCliff

Smash Cadet
Joined
Jun 18, 2008
Messages
40
Location
Woodbridge, VA
Actually, Steel2nd, I was barely giving you a second thought outside of the excellent spacing you utilized at the 2:49 I mentioned - no offense intended. I was really focusing on Zero. If you would like, I will also watch the videos again for you and give you a critique as well.
 

Steel

Where's my Jameson?
BRoomer
Joined
Mar 30, 2008
Messages
7,587
Location
Los Angeles, CA
K, I'll try and look over the last vid since Dire pretty much covered the first two..

:18.. you mis-space your DB and get an ftilt to the face. You proceed to jump right back into me and get an fsmash to the face, just like that im up 68% to nothing.

:30-:32.. i make a few mistakes and you land two up smashes on me. You have the momentum now, but you do another up smash completely missing which resets the fight back to neutral.

:37.. your ftilt whiffs and I punish with DB.

:42.. good idea countering here, putting my pressure to a halt.

:45.. you try another hyphen up smash and completely miss, was a very risky thing to do and I punished you for it.

:52.. you miss again with a fair and I punish with DB. Starting to see a pattern?

1:15.. i make a mistake and you punish, good job.

1:18.. lol?

1:29.. i whiffed on a dash attack and you failed to punish, if you landed a tipper here my first stock would have been taken off.

1:45.. nice edge guarding.

2:00.. i make a mistake and blindly rush in, you instinctively shield my approach but still failed to punish me for it.

2:10.. you shield my fsmash but then just roll away giving me an opportunity to recover.. Marth's smashes arent safe at all on block, should have gotten in a dancing blade here.

2:27.. you whiff your dash attack and i punish with a dtilt > dancing blade.

2:42.. good ftilt here to keep me out

2:52.. i fail to punish for your missed fsmash. we both messed up here

3:04.. poor spacing on the edge here and get hit by an obvious dolphin slash.

3:05.. you dash back in but again poor spacing and you get hit by a ledge hopped fair.

3:17.. you make a big mistake and use your neutral b to recover.. you were already going to recover high so why did you bother using this? You lag as you land and i end it with an uair.

I'm still new at this, but i hope that critique gave you a better idea of what you need to work on. We both made mistakes, but I was able to punish you a lot more than you did me. I think sometimes you were trying to play it TOO safe and instead of punishing just reset the fight back to neutral.

Another thing is your spacing like mentioned before, you missed and got hit by a lot of things that you probably shouldn't have. This will probably just come with practice and experience.

Anything else just ask, good luck.
 

crazn137

Smash Journeyman
Joined
May 3, 2008
Messages
441
Location
Chicago, IL
Thanks for the critiques/comments. I'm starting to get my spacing down a little better. Hopefully I'll have improved by the next time we play.
 

BananaTrooper

Smash Journeyman
Joined
Feb 19, 2008
Messages
420
Location
U of T
Feel free to critique me as well (again), ill try and analyze one of these vids later.
I'm not really up to doing one of those full-vid critiques, but I have some thoughts youre interested.

Steel, I think you roll too much. There are times in matches vs. EL and here where youre in a perfect position for anything you wish, but then end up rolling away and resetting.

Also, dont take this the wrong way lol, but I dont think this "defensive" style suits you. I don't know how you play in non-dittoes, but I often find that when we play, you'll actually refuse to make an attempt to approach me lol. Also, the times you do approach (it's usually after walking towards me as I'm falling), its clear you're gonna throw out a hit - it makes you easy fodder for countering I think.

marth dittos are different from other matchups to be sure, but I still don't think standing still and walking away to turn around and DB is your best bet. (I might be biased here though lol, I can't stand not moving in a match).

Steel (and EL if you're still up for it), I finish my last exam tomorrow. I'll be ready to ditto / any other match you want anyday after tomorrow, so hit me up on AIM.
 

Steel

Where's my Jameson?
BRoomer
Joined
Mar 30, 2008
Messages
7,587
Location
Los Angeles, CA
I'm not really up to doing one of those full-vid critiques, but I have some thoughts youre interested.

Steel, I think you roll too much. There are times in matches vs. EL and here where youre in a perfect position for anything you wish, but then end up rolling away and resetting.

Also, dont take this the wrong way lol, but I dont think this "defensive" style suits you. I don't know how you play in non-dittoes, but I often find that when we play, you'll actually refuse to make an attempt to approach me lol. Also, the times you do approach (it's usually after walking towards me as I'm falling), its clear you're gonna throw out a hit - it makes you easy fodder for countering I think.

marth dittos are different from other matchups to be sure, but I still don't think standing still and walking away to turn around and DB is your best bet. (I might be biased here though lol, I can't stand not moving in a match).

Steel (and EL if you're still up for it), I finish my last exam tomorrow. I'll be ready to ditto / any other match you want anyday after tomorrow, so hit me up on AIM.
Yes, we need to play again.
 

¯\_S.(ツ).L.I.D._/¯

Smash Legend
Joined
Apr 27, 2008
Messages
12,115
Location
Chicago, IL
Good fight all around I would have to say. Ya like Banana Trooper said to you Steel, I don't like you and this defensive oriented scheme. You are good, but I think when you are open, you should attack, especially against good players where there might not be many times that you can attack.

At crazn: well, I don't understand your random attacks in the wrong direction, and at the beginning you should have waited it out more before you just dashed in and got smashed... work on basics and combos, and once I get wi-fi, I would love to ditto battle you, I think we are at about the smae skill level now, although as recently asa last week you could have pwned me.
 
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