Data Crescent Valley : Umbra Witch Data & Research Repository

[pikazz]

you should add 4 Types of Witch Twist.

First Time Witch Twist (Fastest IASA and lower damage and that opponent launches to the side)

First Time Witch Twist Bullet Art (Slower IASA than first but more damage - this happens if you holding B during Start up)

Second Witch Twist (Faster IASA and opponent pop up right infront of you

Second Witch Twist Bullet Art (Slower IASA but more damage - This happens if you holding B Durin Start up)

 

[Ffamran]

BJN39 , should "uncharged, tapped, rapid-fire" Bullet Climax and "charged, held" Bullet Climax be called / separated as Bullet Climax and Charge Bullet like in Bayonetta 2: http://bayonetta.wikia.com/wiki/Charge_Bullet?

 

[Darklink2nd]

Just to plug in some missing data:
Testing on Wii U (Omega Umbra Clock Tower)

Dash Attack:
Damage for Late hitbox - 8%
Move Clanks but animation halts

Back air:
KO Potential - 135% (Sweetspot and Middle of Stage) & 175% (Sourpot and Middle of Stage)

FThrow: First hit - 7%
Second hit - 3%
Max - 10%
KO Potential - Too late to care (Tested near edge with proper DI and Mario's living till like 195%)
(Similar results for all other throws)

DThrow: First hit - 3%
Second hit - 5%
Max - 8%

BThrow: First hit - 3%
Second hit - 4%
Max - 7%

UpThrow: First Hit - 3%
Second hit - 4%
Max - 7%

 

[BJN39]

Just to plug in some missing data:
Testing on Wii U (Omega Umbra Clock Tower)

Dash Attack:
Damage for Late hitbox - 8%
Move Clanks but animation halts

Back air:
KO Potential - 135% (Sweetspot and Middle of Stage) & 175% (Sourpot and Middle of Stage)

FThrow: First hit - 7%
Second hit - 3%
Max - 10%
KO Potential - Too late to care (Tested near edge with proper DI and Mario's living till like 195%)
(Similar results for all other throws)

DThrow: First hit - 3%
Second hit - 5%
Max - 8%

BThrow: First hit - 3%
Second hit - 4%
Max - 7%

UpThrow: First Hit - 3%
Second hit - 4%
Max - 7%

Were those KO numbers all tested center of FD, Mario, proper DI? (BAir) I could've sworn some preliminary testing for those numbers I was doing showed they should be a bit later. Also, I usually record KO numbers for attacks if they can killbefore 250% with proper DI, so I might go check Fthrow myself as well because I forgot about it.

Also, Uthrow is technically 3, 4.5 damage. I actually have a lot of the data thanks to Aerodrome, I've just been doing it in pieces, mostly waiting until the BnBs can be mostly complete.

But lol did I really forget late dash attack %? Ty for bringing that up, I appreciate it when people can help spot small errors.

 

[Darklink2nd]

It was tested with Mario and DI. (Or at least the best DI I can manage quickly switching between my pro controller and my Gamepad, lol. It seemed to work.) The stage was Omega'd Umbran Clock Tower so I'm not too certain if that counts as FD but I assumed.

I may be giving FThrow too much **** tho so yeah should probably check.

 

[Ffamran]

Were those KO numbers all tested center of FD, Mario, proper DI? (BAir) I could've sworn some preliminary testing for those numbers I was doing showed they should be a bit later. Also, I usually record KO numbers for attacks if they can killbefore 250% with proper DI, so I might go check Fthrow myself as well because I forgot about it.

Also, Uthrow is technically 3, 4.5 damage. I actually have a lot of the data thanks to Aerodrome, I've just been doing it in pieces, mostly waiting until the BnBs can be mostly complete.

But lol did I really forget late dash attack %? Ty for bringing that up, I appreciate it when people can help spot small errors.

*plop* sixriver's got most of her data up, so if you need throw hit frames and some of her Specials data, they're there: https://docs.google.com/spreadsheet...KbjykYdHlxjqBTA8pY14g/edit?pref=2&pli=1#gid=0.

 

[Squiiidzoid]

Love the work you've done here! Please get the data for shield damage and block advantage, including if it's an aerial hitting the frame before you land

 

[TheReflexWonder]

Not sure why this doesn't exist already, but I did some research on Bat Within:

When it's activated, it starts a whole new animation, rather than continuing the frame data of the roll/spotdodge/airdodge/Down-B cooldown. They have different animation lengths between them. Bayonetta and the opponent triggering Bat Within do not experience hitlag, and the opponent does not transition (if a Jab1 loops normally, holding A will not give them Jab2).

Bat Within causes slowdown on the opponent for most of the animation. While the animation length is long-ish, the opponent's slowdown gives it much better frame data than that would suggest.

Spotdodge BW basically has a FAF of 17. Forward/Back Roll BW FAF is 25. Airdodge BW FAF is 22. Down-B BW FAF is 29.

This means that her Frame 1 BW spotdodge gives her +13 extra frame advantage compared to her normal animation (or +9 if you compare it to the first true invincibility frame, which is Frame 5). Bat Within seems truly outrageous.

 

[Squiiidzoid]

Btw if you didn't know, every bullet art has 2 hitboxes. One, the bullet, that deals damage and no knockback. But the other one is the explosion on the gun, which does deal knockback and hitstun. Also at 999% these explosions do kill, so they do scale with damage. At lower %s though it mostly just pushes back the opponent. I tested them all extensively and they each have different angles. Some send them straight up(uptilt), some send them straight down(fair 3 downward hits), most send them diagonally(jabs) and some send them horizontally(dash attack)(perfect for jab locks and prattacks). Please get the data for both of these bullet arts hitboxes. Also from my testing it seems like bullet arts do loads of extra shield damage, because they completely eat through shields(if you do the full jab combo with a little bit of bullet arts between the first 3 hits it breaks a full shield)

 

[Sonicninja115]

Not sure why this doesn't exist already, but I did some research on Bat Within:

When it's activated, it starts a whole new animation, rather than continuing the frame data of the roll/spotdodge/airdodge/Down-B cooldown. They have different animation lengths between them. Bayonetta and the opponent triggering Bat Within do not experience hitlag, and the opponent does not transition (if a Jab1 loops normally, holding A will not give them Jab2).

Bat Within causes slowdown on the opponent for most of the animation. While the animation length is long-ish, the opponent's slowdown gives it much better frame data than that would suggest.

Spotdodge BW basically has a FAF of 17. Forward/Back Roll BW FAF is 25. Airdodge BW FAF is 22. Down-B BW FAF is 29.

This means that her Frame 1 BW spotdodge gives her +13 extra frame advantage compared to her normal animation (or +9 if you compare it to the first true invincibility frame, which is Frame 5). Bat Within seems truly outrageous.

So as long as someone isn't using a multihit move or the opponent isn't as fast as Shiek, then Bayo should be able to punish with Dtilt or something? What are the practical applications? In other words, how much can you get out of Bat within?

 

[Shadow the Past]

Btw if you didn't know, every bullet art has 2 hitboxes. One, the bullet, that deals damage and no knockback. But the other one is the explosion on the gun, which does deal knockback and hitstun. Also at 999% these explosions do kill, so they do scale with damage. At lower %s though it mostly just pushes back the opponent. I tested them all extensively and they each have different angles. Some send them straight up(uptilt), some send them straight down(fair 3 downward hits), most send them diagonally(jabs) and some send them horizontally(dash attack)(perfect for jab locks and prattacks). Please get the data for both of these bullet arts hitboxes. Also from my testing it seems like bullet arts do loads of extra shield damage, because they completely eat through shields(if you do the full jab combo with a little bit of bullet arts between the first 3 hits it breaks a full shield)

How much cooldown is there between each hitbox?

 

[Mario & Sonic Guy]

I don't know if this has been mentioned yet, buy when I was checking up on the air speed rankings, it appears that Bayonetta has the same air speed as Olimar; 0.82. Who would've thought that there would be another fighter whose air speed is worse than Charizard's air speed?

 

[KuroganeHammer]

It's actually the same as Wii Fit.

 

[Mario & Sonic Guy]

It's actually the same as Wii Fit.

Then I wonder why someone thought that it was 0.82. Probably didn't look at the air speed comparisons more closely.

 

[Ffamran]

Is it "Data & Research" or "Research & Data"? Minor typo? Also, should we refer to Bayonetta as "Bayonetta" or the "Umbra Witch"?

 

[BJN39]

I probably noticed that D&R/R&D difference between my threads like, the day I made it.

But why not it stay I mean, it does both anyways

I'll probably change it sometime.


Also Umbra Witch because I say so

Mind yew if @Spritzee hadn'T come along the title would've been even more tragic smh.

 

[Deleted member 269706]

BJN39 Hey couple questions...When you recorded the death percents, what stage/character/position was it tested on? Also were the smash attacks charged or uncharged in the KO potential boxes? And lastly, what percent does Dsmash start spiking at? I did my best to read through the OP but didn't see any answers to these questions so I hope they aren't stupid haha.

 

[BJN39]

BJN39 Hey couple questions...When you recorded the death percents, what stage/character/position was it tested on? Also were the smash attacks charged or uncharged in the KO potential boxes? And lastly, what percent does Dsmash start spiking at? I did my best to read through the OP but didn't see any answers to these questions so I hope they aren't stupid haha.

Not stupid questions at all!

In the Info section at the top, under the BnB table info, there was a description for KO potential. I'll copy it here:

"A rough number to estimate KO timings around, used by taking Mario's earliest percent on an omega stage at which he was KO'ed by the move even with correct survival DI or Vectoring. The heaviest characters will cap at about 20% higher, while the lightest characters can be KO'ed around 20-30% earlier. I eventually cut off some moves with "N/A" if they couldn't KO by around the mid 200s. Red coloring means 3DS %, aqua coloring means WiiU %."

It doesn't say it there, but for horizontal KO moves, I test it at the very center of the stage. That's relevant for some moves like FAir/BAir/NAir because they are sometimes landed much closer to the side blastzones. Especially NAir bullet art extension edgeguards.

Smash attack KO timings are uncharged, because generally charged smashes are not used in competitive smash. However Bayonetta would be a potential exception due to witch time. I might record them later.

Unfortunately I don't remember exactly what percent Dsmash starts doing the knockdown meteoring. (I'll go find that as well.) I did mess around and find it once. On Mario I think it's around 39% with the uncharged, 16% meteor hitbox. It would be a little bit later forthe 15% hitbox.

I don't think I added them yet, but I do have the remaining numbers for her other moves that KO at relatively relevant percents now too. Except for throws...oop.

I may find the number for miss-DI'ed Dthrow as well because of the Fthrow/Dthrow DI KO mixup.

 

[Deleted member 269706]

Not stupid questions at all!

In the Info section at the top, under the BnB table info, there was a description for KO potential. I'll copy it here:

"A rough number to estimate KO timings around, used by taking Mario's earliest percent on an omega stage at which he was KO'ed by the move even with correct survival DI or Vectoring. The heaviest characters will cap at about 20% higher, while the lightest characters can be KO'ed around 20-30% earlier. I eventually cut off some moves with "N/A" if they couldn't KO by around the mid 200s. Red coloring means 3DS %, aqua coloring means WiiU %."

It doesn't say it there, but for horizontal KO moves, I test it at the very center of the stage. That's relevant for some moves like FAir/BAir/NAir because they are sometimes landed much closer to the side blastzones. Especially NAir bullet art extension edgeguards.

Smash attack KO timings are uncharged, because generally charged smashes are not used in competitive smash. However Bayonetta would be a potential exception due to witch time. I might record them later.

Unfortunately I don't remember exactly what percent Dsmash starts doing the knockdown meteoring. (I'll go find that as well.) I did mess around and find it once. On Mario I think it's around 39% with the uncharged, 16% meteor hitbox. It would be a little bit later forthe 15% hitbox.

I don't think I added them yet, but I do have the remaining numbers for her other moves that KO at relatively relevant percents now too. Except for throws...oop.

I may find the number for miss-DI'ed Dthrow as well because of the Fthrow/Dthrow DI KO mixup.

Thank you so much for the reply! You're doing a great job here, keep it up!

 

[Lavani]

hiya BJN39 gorl

Here's bayo's bonus shield damage numbers

Spoiler

Dash Attack +1
Knockdown/Trip getup attacks +8
Ledge getup attack +1

Spoiler

...that's it. Nothing on bullet arts/climax, aerials, smashes, anything else. Only thing I didn't check was final smash. eaux wait bayo's final smash isn't even something that would hit shields lol

 

[SuperScope]

I'm trying to understand the amount of frames between jab3 and rapid jab. Does this table say it's 5 frames apart?

 

[BJN39]

I'm trying to understand the amount of frames between jab3 and rapid jab. Does this table say it's 5 frames apart?

Not quite. At the time before Furil's hitbox visualizations, no one had the data for rapid jab or its hitframes, etc. Rapid jab's first hit comes out frame 4 of the animation, and you can cancel jab 3 into Rapid Jab f17.

It would hit 9F after Jab 3 at the soonest input of rapid jab.

I guess I ought to add that rapid jab info, oops

 

[Lavani]

BJN sisT if you neededT rapid jab data all yew had to do was ask

Asynchronous_Timer(Frames=4)
External_Subroutine(0x5B146C1)
Asynchronous_Timer(Frames=11)
External_Subroutine(0x5B146C1)
Asynchronous_Timer(Frames=18)
External_Subroutine(0x5B146C1)
Asynchronous_Timer(Frames=26)
External_Subroutine(0x5B146C1)
Unknown_522()
Set_bit(0x21000016)
Set_bit(0x21000021)
Subroutine(Hash=1220043614)
Script_End()

End subroutine just loops back into rapid jab again.

External subroutine for the hits:

Extended_Special_Hitbox(0x0, 0x0, 0x0, 0.3, 0x8, 0x64, 0x7, 0x0, 6.7, 0, 9, 9, 0x0, 0, 1, 0.6, 0x1, 0x1, 0x0, 0x0, 0x2, 0x3, 0x1, 0x4, 0x3F, 0x0, 0xF, 0x0, 0x1, 0x0, 0x0, 0x0, 0x0, 0x0, 0x3, 0x0, 0x0, 0x0, 0x0, 0x0, 0, 9, 9)
Extended_Special_Hitbox(0x1, 0x0, 0x0, 0.3, 0xAC, 0x64, 0x7, 0x0, 6.7, 0, 9, 18, 0x0, 0, 1, 0.6, 0x1, 0x1, 0x0, 0x0, 0x2, 0x3, 0x1, 0x4, 0x3F, 0x0, 0xF, 0x0, 0x1, 0x0, 0x0, 0x0, 0x0, 0x0, 0x3, 0x0, 0x0, 0x0, 0x0, 0x0, 0, 9, 9)
Synchronous_Timer(Frames=1)
Remove_All_Hitboxes()
Set_bit(0x21000016)
Script_End()

 

[BJN39]

BJN sisT if you neededT rapid jab data all yew had to do was ask

Asynchronous_Timer(Frames=4)
External_Subroutine(0x5B146C1)
Asynchronous_Timer(Frames=11)
External_Subroutine(0x5B146C1)
Asynchronous_Timer(Frames=18)
External_Subroutine(0x5B146C1)
Asynchronous_Timer(Frames=26)
External_Subroutine(0x5B146C1)
Unknown_522()
Set_bit(0x21000016)
Set_bit(0x21000021)
Subroutine(Hash=1220043614)
Script_End()

End subroutine just loops back into rapid jab again.

External subroutine for the hits:

Extended_Special_Hitbox(0x0, 0x0, 0x0, 0.3, 0x8, 0x64, 0x7, 0x0, 6.7, 0, 9, 9, 0x0, 0, 1, 0.6, 0x1, 0x1, 0x0, 0x0, 0x2, 0x3, 0x1, 0x4, 0x3F, 0x0, 0xF, 0x0, 0x1, 0x0, 0x0, 0x0, 0x0, 0x0, 0x3, 0x0, 0x0, 0x0, 0x0, 0x0, 0, 9, 9)
Extended_Special_Hitbox(0x1, 0x0, 0x0, 0.3, 0xAC, 0x64, 0x7, 0x0, 6.7, 0, 9, 18, 0x0, 0, 1, 0.6, 0x1, 0x1, 0x0, 0x0, 0x2, 0x3, 0x1, 0x4, 0x3F, 0x0, 0xF, 0x0, 0x1, 0x0, 0x0, 0x0, 0x0, 0x0, 0x3, 0x0, 0x0, 0x0, 0x0, 0x0, 0, 9, 9)
Synchronous_Timer(Frames=1)
Remove_All_Hitboxes()
Set_bit(0x21000016)
Script_End()

Y'know, that reminds me. Can I geT ha data from yew? I remember you saying I missed out on it sitting in your sig a while back. I may actually have time over the summer to implement it here.


Edit: Setting this here to implement at some point...

I think this would be the most appropriate place (Outside eventually Crescent Valley of course)

Not really finished and stuff, but obviously knowing how guaranteed (Or if guaranteed) an attack is is nice data.

Bayonetta has a ton of data that is relatively complex, sso read this stuff to understand how the table is formatted and why there are multiples of certain attacks.

Right off the bat:
- Top row of percents are various percents...which should be obvious. They're the victim percents.
- The four numbers in each box refer to: ##F/##F -> the number of frames of hitstun induced (Bowser's weight/Jigglypuff's weight). +##/+## -> The frame advantage Bayonetta has upon FAF of her move in question. (Again, using Bowser/Jiggs)
- Due to how hitstun works, any hitstun of 40F or higher can be cancelled with airdodge, (Cancelled on frame 41, as though it had a FAF of 41 but only for airdodges) thus, the "+##" cap off at every move once they reach 40F of hitstun. HOWEVER, you cannot jump out of htistun until "Hitstun ends" thus the "##F/##F" still counts up. By doing a little maths you can figure out when the attacks can be cancelled with jumps at higher percents.
- ALL NUMBERS CONSIDER ONLY THE FIRST HITFRAME OF THE MOVES CONCERNED. But doing the math to get the hit advantage on the second third etc frame is not difficult. Just add +1 to the advantage for every frame later of a hitbox.
- For application: know how many frames it takes to use x/y/z attack and figure out if it is an applicable followup (ALso considering if a move does not knock too far by the time it works!)

Move stuffs:
- Ftilt1 "65/25"/"45/25"/"50/15" refer to three different hitboxes on Ftilt1 which all have to be considered. 50/15 is the only relevant hitbox versus aerial targets. 65/25 and 45/25 are the inner and outer spacing-wise hitboxes versus grounded targets. As you can see, only one of them guarantees a grab followup. fyi the numbers refer to each hitbox's base kb and kb growth.
- Dtilt has negligible hitstun differences between the two different damages.
- FAir1 has three different hitboxes, with different levels of hitstun. The innermost and lower one (Refer to Furil's hitbox visuals work) has the highest htistun, while the outermost reaching one has far less hitstun.
- It looks like there is a narrow percent area where non-correctly-DI'd Ftilt 3 should JUST lead into guaranteed Witch Twist. Looks really tight, however...

|000%|025%|050%|075%|100%|125%|150%
Ftilt1 62/25|25F/25F +6/+6|26F/26F +7/+7|27F/28F +8/+9|28F/29F +9/+10|29F/30F +10/+11|29F/31F +10/+12|30F/32F +11/+13
Ftilt1 45/25|18F/18F -1/-1 |19F/20F 0/+1|20F/21F +1/+2|21F/22F +2/+3|22F/23F +3/+4|23F/24F +4/+5|23F/25F +4/+6
Ftilt1 50/15 |20F/20F +1/+1|20F/20F +1/+1|21F/21F +2/+2|21F/22F +2/+3|22F/22F +3/+3|22F/23F +3/+4|23F/24F +4/+5
Ftilt3|32F/33F +4/+5|36F/38F +8/+10|40F/43F +12/+12|44F/48F +12/+12|47F/54F +12/+12|51F/59F +12/+12|55F/64F +12/+12
Dtilt 6%|31F/31F +12/+12|33F/34F +14/+15|36F/38F +17/+19|38F/41F +19/+21|40F/44F +21/+21|43F/48F +21/+21|45F/51F +21/+21
Dtilt 7%|31F/31F +12/+12|34F/35F +15/+16|36F/39F +17/+20|39F/42F +20/+21|42F/46F +21/+21|45F/50F +21/+21|47F/54F +21/+21
Utilt hit1|34F/34F +15/+15|35F/36F +16/+17|37F/39F +18/+20|39F/41F +20/+21|41F/43F +21/+21|42F/46F +21/+21|44F/48F +21/+21
Utilt hit2|28F/28F +13/+13|30F/32F +15/+17|33F/36F +18/+21|36F/40F +21/+25|39F/44F +24/+25|42F/48F +25/+25|45F/52F +25/+25
FAir1 80bkb|31F/31F +12/+12|32F/32F +13/+13|32F/32F +13/+13|32F/33F +13/+14|32F/33F +13/+14|33F/33F +14/+14|33F/34F +14/+15
FAir1 70bkb|27F/27F +8/+8|28F/28F +9/+9|28F/28F +9/+9|28F/29F +9/+10|28F/29F +9/+10|29F/29F +10/+10|29F/30F +10/+11
FAir1 65bkb|25F/25F +6/+6|26F/26F +7/+7|26F/26F +7/+7|26F/27F +7/+8|26F/27F +7/+8|27F/27F +8/+8|27F/28F +8/+9

Please ask questions because I can forget to mention things that may need to be known.


Also get off of discord how am I supposed to discuss data with the witches when they aren't even populating their homeland.