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Creativity, Options, and Reaction

Myztek

Smash Ace
Joined
Sep 20, 2005
Messages
936
Location
Southaven, Mississippi
When you watch a good combo video or a match of a great player, you're likely to see a lot of amazing things. Probably things you've never seen before. Probably things that have never really crossed your mind as being possible or viable in a situation. Sometimes you may even surprise yourself when you're playing. Amazing and intelligent decisions usually happen a lot more often in high level play. I, and probably most people, enjoy watching the matches of the highest calibur players, because I know I'll see insane combos and crazy mindgames.

The reason for this is actually kind've obvious. The best and most influential players are the ones that are the most creative, consistent, and have superb decision-making abilities. Even now we see things in Melee that we haven't seen before. It's because some people really focus and push themselves. They see more options more often. Not only options for themselves, but they know their opponent's options.

Some players are perfectly content with where they are in terms of skill, so they stagnate and keep playing the same and never push themselves. Some people don't realize that some options even exist, so they don't try them. Then you have the players that people look up to and rely on for new ideas; these are the good, creative players. This isn't to say that good players are always creative or vice versa. You can have a creative player who makes off-the-wall decisions that turn out really well, but not consistently. You can also have a good player who makes pretty basic decision, but is very consistent. And you can also have someone who makes consistent, amazing decisions.

I don't keep up with the Peach metagame, but I'm sure Armada's Peach pioneered many new ideas. And I have no doubt that Mango's characters have paved the road for "how they should be played." There's a problem with thinking "this is how X should be played", however. The problem is that it creates a boundary for your creative potential. There is no rule that you have to do Y move in Z situation, but a lot of players have limited themselves in this way. Instead, I believe it's best to keep your options open. New opportunities will present themselves, and you may even come up with a technique that helps define the future metagame.

I'm sure you've had the experience of watching a video and saying to yourself "Oh, man! He totally should have done <insert action> there!" It's a lot easier to see when you're observing a video. When you're playing a match, often times you're not watching the game like you would a video. So you miss opportunites. You get caught up in "tunnel vision", trying to use a specific move, trying to get a grab, and so on. But, if you view the game as a video, so to speak, you will capture more opportunities. For instance, if I were to present a still-image of a match... let's say Fox vs Marth on Yoshi's Story. Marth is standing on the right side under the platform, and Fox is standing on the top-middle platform. Let's assume that both characters are standing with no action (no shield, no move happening). If I asked you to tell me everything that each player could do at this point in time, then you would probably be able to. Even if you couldn't list every single option, you could probably come up with quite a long list. Now, we can narrow this down to something even more specific. Say Fox is now shining Marth's shield in the middle of the stage. In this situation, you could also list off the possible actions of each character. This is how you should view the game. Know your options and know your opponent's options. If you know the options, then you can watch for an action to take place, then react appropriately. Obviously, a scenario where less options are available to each player is much easier to handle. If Fox has missed a tech on the platform to the left after an up-throw by Marth, and Marth is standing just beneath him, then Fox's options are very limited. He can only do a get up attack, roll left or right, stand up, or just keep lying there. Marth, on the other hand, has a lot more and better options in this situation. It's very easy for the Marth to just stand and wait for Fox to choose what he wants to do. whether he rolls, stands up, or does a get up attack, Marth has an answer for every single option. If you watch and focus intently enough, it's very easy to capitalize on any of them.

Okay, so some of that may have been a little obvious, but hopefully it all makes sense so far. When you're playing, view the game in a manner that allows you to react as quickly as possible. Usually, you want to be watching your opponent's character. If you're staring at your own character doing wavedashes, and making sure you hit that waveland, then you're wasting precious time that you could be watching your opponent. You should have enough control over your character that you don't even need to watch what you're doing, really. You view the game as an image of possibilites, let your mind make the decision, and your hands will respond accordingly. And if you keep your mind open, you'll probably come up with some things you've never thought of before.

One more thing I'll add for the time being: To be really good at this, you do have to be very focused on the game. The more focused you are, the more opportunities you will see and be able to react to.
 

Myztek

Smash Ace
Joined
Sep 20, 2005
Messages
936
Location
Southaven, Mississippi
Just because you have increased focus due to drug usage doesn't mean that you'll be focusing on the correct thing(s). So, no, I don't mean basically those. Nor are they required.
 

Varist

Smash Lord
Joined
Feb 7, 2011
Messages
1,603
Location
Austin
So you've never taken one of these before. It's like you're trapped in the game, and there's nothing else.
L-canceling isn't required either, but it helps. A lot.
 

Mr.Jackpot

Smash Lord
Joined
Mar 30, 2011
Messages
1,727
Location
WA
So you've never taken one of these before. It's like you're trapped in the game, and there's nothing else.
L-canceling isn't required either, but it helps. A lot.
By that logic, recovering isn't required either (
Sakurai don't hurt me
).
 

Kal

Smash Champion
Joined
Dec 21, 2004
Messages
2,973
Super constructive post there, crush. Also, it should be "these kinds of threads." Way to go.

And "this kind of threads" is grammatically correct, albeit awkward.
 

Kal

Smash Champion
Joined
Dec 21, 2004
Messages
2,973
No, "this" modifies the singular "kind" not the word "threads," which is in the instrumental case. Sorry, it's either "this kind" or "these kinds." The "of" + "noun" doesn't have to do with the "this" or "these."

And to provide a source:

http://public.wsu.edu/~brians/errors/these.html
 

wezai

Smash Journeyman
Joined
Sep 27, 2007
Messages
311
Location
Mogi-Guaçu / Brazil
People are limited to their actions depending on the current "trend" due to top-tier lists that tend to change from time to time. While the creative players who are the true masterminds behind decision-making factors change their thinking methods pretty much every different match.

I like innovative ways to deal with "X" factor against "Y" character, and for that I'm always trying new things, watching new videos and all that stuff. <3

Would love to see anything new for C. Falcon as I'm training with him right now. I got a little sick of my Falco. xD
 

Pi

Smash Hero
Joined
Feb 5, 2008
Messages
6,038
Location
Lake Mary, Florida
damn this thread probably didn't go the way OP expected

adderal & similar drugs don't enhance anything
in my experience (albeit limited) they only prolong your ability to focus
but don't give you anything you can't access otherwise

besides they're mad addictive and i could see people easily falling into the 'i can't do it without the drug' mindset, which is terrible to fall into cause adderal is expensive lol

but yea, being totally focused on the game, and more specifically you're opponents character and what he's up to (in or out of hitstun) really opens your mind to what's possible in the game

melee becomes almost euphoric when you're that focused
assuming you're also technically consistent as well

it's pretty sick
 

Massive

Smash Champion
Joined
Aug 11, 2006
Messages
2,833
Location
Kansas City, MO
adderal & similar drugs don't enhance anything
in my experience (albeit limited) they only prolong your ability to focus
but don't give you anything you can't access otherwise
You would agree then that if someone's biggest problem is not performing the tactics themselves but performing them consistently (maintaining focus), Adderal would basically be the best option to increase performance with little effort? It would basically be a magic pill in that case.

There's a reason why people abuse the hell out of it in most competitive gaming circles.
 

Myztek

Smash Ace
Joined
Sep 20, 2005
Messages
936
Location
Southaven, Mississippi
It's unfortunate that this thread isn't generating more intelligent discussion! :p

But yeah, adderall and its alternatives do what they are supposed to and you can definitely tell there's an effect. However, you can learn to access this affect easily without the aid of drugs. It just takes work and practice. Daily practice. I've been practicing meditation and focusing exercises since I wrote the other article on focus and concentration. I can tell every day that it becomes easier to get into that mental state. It's a matter of familiarizing yourself with it, practicing it, and learning how to get into it at will.
 

wezai

Smash Journeyman
Joined
Sep 27, 2007
Messages
311
Location
Mogi-Guaçu / Brazil
Ha. X-Factor.
It's unfortunate that this thread isn't generating more intelligent discussion! :p

But yeah, adderall and its alternatives do what they are supposed to and you can definitely tell there's an effect. However, you can learn to access this affect easily without the aid of drugs. It just takes work and practice. Daily practice. I've been practicing meditation and focusing exercises since I wrote the other article on focus and concentration. I can tell every day that it becomes easier to get into that mental state. It's a matter of familiarizing yourself with it, practicing it, and learning how to get into it at will.
For me, it's extremely easy to get all this attention spam and have a huge amount of focus. Unfortunately my hand reactions take a long time to execute my commands, takes almost 30 minutes for me to "warm up".

And I agree that drugs instead of being beneficiary they just will make you too much dependent on them when in fact you could have superb reflexes and attention just by a lot of hard training.

One thing that seemed to help me with focus is training and fighting with friends while we talk about other things non-related to SSBM and listen to all sorts of background music. Then when we suddenly turn the songs off and stop talking and just focus on the game itself, it feels like it's we have total control over our reactions.

Another thing that I used to do with one of my friends is playing the game at a faster speed, like say 1.5 times or was it 2 times faster than normal? We would play hours and hours at faster speed than when we switched back to the normal speed the game itself felt so slow and "easy" in a way. I don't know if that was only a mind illusion but I sure felt like my capacity to see FPS increased a lot. Too bad I didn't do that for too long to really be able to tell if it's effective or not. But that's just a funny "illusion" I think. :c

On shorter and small maps like Yoshi's island you can just stare at the center of the map if you are playing a character with a good map-control. And play the whole game without moving your eyes that much. For this same map, when playing matches with a timer I was trying to find patterns for that moving-cloud just by the timer itself, I remember when I was thrown to the sides and had to make a recover and the camera is not showing well whether if we will be able to land on that cloud or not, I would just stare the timer and precisely know if I can safely land on that fluffy cloud. xD A lot of times I could use my 2nd jump without risking too much desperately trying to grab the ledge or something.

Does anyone here could give me some tips too and how do you have your mind-set, any kind of pro tip would be appreciated. :embarrass:
 

JoFTWin

Smash Apprentice
Joined
Aug 6, 2011
Messages
96
Location
Where the wild things are, by way of Georgia.
For me, it's extremely easy to get all this attention spam and have a huge amount of focus. Unfortunately my hand reactions take a long time to execute my commands, takes almost 30 minutes for me to "warm up".

And I agree that drugs instead of being beneficiary they just will make you too much dependent on them when in fact you could have superb reflexes and attention just by a lot of hard training.

One thing that seemed to help me with focus is training and fighting with friends while we talk about other things non-related to SSBM and listen to all sorts of background music. Then when we suddenly turn the songs off and stop talking and just focus on the game itself, it feels like it's we have total control over our reactions.

Another thing that I used to do with one of my friends is playing the game at a faster speed, like say 1.5 times or was it 2 times faster than normal? We would play hours and hours at faster speed than when we switched back to the normal speed the game itself felt so slow and "easy" in a way. I don't know if that was only a mind illusion but I sure felt like my capacity to see FPS increased a lot. Too bad I didn't do that for too long to really be able to tell if it's effective or not. But that's just a funny "illusion" I think. :c

On shorter and small maps like Yoshi's island you can just stare at the center of the map if you are playing a character with a good map-control. And play the whole game without moving your eyes that much. For this same map, when playing matches with a timer I was trying to find patterns for that moving-cloud just by the timer itself, I remember when I was thrown to the sides and had to make a recover and the camera is not showing well whether if we will be able to land on that cloud or not, I would just stare the timer and precisely know if I can safely land on that fluffy cloud. xD A lot of times I could use my 2nd jump without risking too much desperately trying to grab the ledge or something.

Does anyone here could give me some tips too and how do you have your mind-set, any kind of pro tip would be appreciated. :embarrass:
Wow these are some hyperbolic time chamber-esque training techniques. Timer watching? Lol. That's way too hardcore for me haha. But I might try the increased speed thing.
 

wezai

Smash Journeyman
Joined
Sep 27, 2007
Messages
311
Location
Mogi-Guaçu / Brazil
Wow these are some hyperbolic time chamber-esque training techniques. Timer watching? Lol. That's way too hardcore for me haha. But I might try the increased speed thing.
Haha I tried to not be hyperbolic in my sentences. The timer watching sounds like it is hard at first, but doesn't take too long before you memorize the complete cloud path. xD

Edit: I mean, I tried to not over emphasize on how these methods worked for me, they look like they are a hyperbolic way to train but it's not too extreme compared to what I've seen. :D
 

Pi

Smash Hero
Joined
Feb 5, 2008
Messages
6,038
Location
Lake Mary, Florida
You would agree then that if someone's biggest problem is not performing the tactics themselves but performing them consistently (maintaining focus), Adderal would basically be the best option to increase performance with little effort? It would basically be a magic pill in that case.

There's a reason why people abuse the hell out of it in most competitive gaming circles.
well obv.
but not being able to focus and perform the way you 'should' in tournament is a hurdle that you can overcome w/ practice and the right mindset otherwise

i'd never reccomend drugs, prescription or otherwise, to enhance/aid smash abilities

learn that ish yourself, it'll help you immensely in the long run
 

Massive

Smash Champion
Joined
Aug 11, 2006
Messages
2,833
Location
Kansas City, MO
well obv.
but not being able to focus and perform the way you 'should' in tournament is a hurdle that you can overcome w/ practice and the right mindset otherwise

i'd never reccomend drugs, prescription or otherwise, to enhance/aid smash abilities

learn that ish yourself, it'll help you immensely in the long run
Practice will not prevent inevitable fatigue. You can increase the length of time you will be at your best, but there is a limit to how long you can perform at your peak before you start to waiver.

l'm in the camp of people who lose focus after about an hour of rigorous play (far too short a time to do well in most tournament settings). Adderal would probably help substantially with that, but I'm also a big fan of not being addicted to amphetamines.

For the OP:

An interesting exercise for smash is to play out a match on paper or in your head.
There are ethereal decision trees everyone uses based on their accumulated knowledge of tactics and game mechanics. Starting with nearly limitless approach options, any movement is diminishes the list of possible events to very small subset of the original options.

Try making an decision tree for your character vs another character. Imagine what their options will be in each circumstance, approaching, retreating, recovering, shieldgame, ledgegame, groundgame/techs and come up with a contingency for each one. Come up with contingencies for getting hit with the most common tactics/approaches. Consider recovery options and what is the best to do in whatever situation.

These are things that very good players know inherently, they have created these heuristics in their minds either intentionally or subconsciously, you can do the same thing.
A lot of what appears to be "mind reading" is just experience and knowledge of the set of options the opponent has.
 

Pi

Smash Hero
Joined
Feb 5, 2008
Messages
6,038
Location
Lake Mary, Florida
matches are only at most 5 minutes long and usually 3 games long

you should be able to will yourself to focus on a match to match basis

playing seriouslies for hours on end is another story entirely

but i see no reason why a person can't keep their head in the game for a set once every 15 minutes or so

personally i can't (i say can't, meaning it becomes increasingly difficult) play serious tryhard mode for more than maybe 10 matches in a row
past that i no longer edgeguard the way i know i should or approach/counter approach the way i should
but no matter the state of my mind, as long as i'm sober and not been awake for 24+ hours i can always will myself to take a set seriously when it calls for it
 

weslo

Smash Apprentice
Joined
Sep 14, 2008
Messages
113
Location
kingsporn tennesse
i feel like if i played in the meta-game people would be more likely to know what i'm going to do. but then if you know me well enough you'll know the stuff i do in place of it anyway.
 

Zodiac

Smash Master
Joined
Aug 10, 2005
Messages
3,557
But yeah, adderall and its alternatives do what they are supposed to and you can definitely tell there's an effect. However, you can learn to access this affect easily without the aid of drugs. It just takes work and practice. Daily practice.
I have ADD, and for a long time I was on prescription ritalin. The effects are basically the same as adderall, but work in very different ways so don't use ritalin as a substitute. Anyway yes these drugs DO increase your ability to concentrate, and i'm speaking from personal experience, you can concentrate that well without them. and maybe its just me but I would rather win when im not on ritalin.

Practice will not prevent inevitable fatigue. You can increase the length of time you will be at your best, but there is a limit to how long you can perform at your peak before you start to waiver..
Mental fatigue has a lot of factors playing into it, namely your mental endurance, and that endurance CAN be increased if regularly exercise your brain and take care of your body. Eating right, exercise etc..., Also, fyi, the way adderall works is by making your brain go on psycho overdrive and releasing dopamine and nor-epinephrine in ungodly huge proportions and essentially forces you concentrate on whatever your doing. that's why when it were's off there's a crash. its kind of like jet lag, you aren't supposed to be going that fast.

personally i can't (i say can't, meaning it becomes increasingly difficult) play serious tryhard mode for more than maybe 10 matches in a row.
but no matter the state of my mind, as long as i'm sober and not been awake for 24+ hours i can always will myself to take a set seriously when it calls for it
The sleep thing is something a lot of people ignore, even though it does effect your game heavily since its a gradual decline, you sometimes don't notice if you become tired while playing. But this goes into what I was saying earlier, taking care of your body gives you extended mental endurance and better concentration, not to mention if you have stress than that will take up part of your thoughts, no matter how little and decrease your concentration.

However, I've said a lot of stuff about the way I look at thing, but enough about drugs...here's something relevant to the op.

I think the truly creative players are creative because they found a way to look at the game that makes perfect sense...to them, I have ways of looking at the game and piecing together a counter strategy that none of you would understand, because your not me and you don't see things like I do. Just like I wouldn't understand the way you look at the intricacies of the game because im not you. I believe that everyone's uniqueness requires them to look at the game a different way from everyone else. and while the bulk of the community is having flow charts and advance techniques shoved down their throat the creative players look at the game how they see it. not how someone else see's it.
 

choknater

Smash Obsessed
Joined
Dec 25, 2002
Messages
27,296
Location
Modesto, CA
NNID
choknater
when it comes to tournaments, there are a few things i've learned to focus on

- proper amount of sleep
- good diet the day before and the day of the tournament
- reflection on possible matchups during the tournament, both characters and players
- realistic confidence in achieving goals (i.e. "i don't know if i can beat zhu at this point, but i can do much better than the last couple times"... or "i'll beat ranked players and make top 5 at this tournament")
- strong warmup with players close to or slightly below my level within the past week

when i'm gonna go to a smashfest or just play a lot of seriouslies with people

- focus on matchups
- innovate and try new things
- have fun

usually the warmups and good health decisions before tournaments will keep my execution on point. still though, we always have bad days
 
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