Creating The Best Team - Possible? Let's Find Out

[Marc]

Mirror Coat is pretty rare, and Suicune wouldn't suffer that much from a physical weakness either. It should just be banned imo. =]

 

[Kokichi]

He's definitely on the border of Uber. There's no real "good" counter against him except another Suicune. And if you, for some reason or other, allow him to CM more than once, it's really tough to deal with him...that's why the rare Mirror Coat works wonders ^_^

 

[I_R_Hungry]

Suicune really isn't hard to counter. All you have to do is force it to rest and then Haze/Phaze it.

 

[Marc]

That won't kill it.

 

[Shadow Nataku]

Hazing/Phazing doesn't work at all on Suicune....all it does is it delays the inevitable. In the multiple battles I've played, I find only 2 things beat a Suicune, high physical offense with high spcl.atk or luck hax.

A physical weakness for water would be nice, but which type? And Suicune has great defensive powers anyway. =p Fire should definitely get better, don't know how exactly though. As for ice, it has some decent/good Pokémon imo.

I don't really know myself but the reason why it would help despite its fantastic defense is mainly because of CM....how exactly do you bring down a 2CM'ed Suicune with special attacks?
A extra typing would help, Dark and Steel finally brought the way overpowered Psychic typing under control in GSC. It became actually possible to bring down a Mewtwo.
At least a physical weakness gives you a slight if very obscure chance to bring it down somehow, which still would be a pain thanks to Rest. Too bad they made it clear no new typings would be introduced. Another 2 extra typings would help, a special typing thats strong vs Normal so Blissey and Curselax wouldn't be laughing as much and a physical typing strong vs Water, to stop Kyogre, Suicune, Milotic.

Fire I imagine could become better if they gave better traits (only 3 traits and 1 is a chance trait and other only works vs fire...), give them more offensive support moves since its the only game they can play, or give a decent electric or grass attack to them. Or create some dual fire types that are NOT weak to water.....
Seriously who's bright idea was it to bring out Fire/Ground and Fire/Rock typings? Blaziken is about the only good thing thats happened to fire types.

And Ice does have good pokemon but I'd prefer if there was abit more diversity, the only pretty interestingly typed Ice pokemon Piloswine and Sneasel have horrendous spcl.atk plus a good pure Ice or a decent Ice dual type would make them worth using. Seriously how many use a Ice type for a Ice move vs a Water type with a Ice move?

 

[Marc]

All good points. I just think that 00bers and stuff like Suicune should be banned instead of bothering with counters, though.

I hope they power up Houndoom and Arcanine a bit, both have lots of potential. =]

 

[Kokichi]

Hopefully they'll shuffle around the weaknesses and resistances, somehow. I know that they changed some stuff to poision once rusa came out. I just hope that they really think through each pokemon and come up with multiple suitable counters to it. There shouldn't be one pokemon like Suicune that takes a whole army or luck w/ para or something to defeat.

If only they were to add new types that gave a pokemon resistance to water, or fire, or something like that. More absolute resistances would be cool, IMO; there's nothing more satisfying than switching a Tyranitar into a psychic or a Magneton into a Sludge Bomb (flying into EQ is too common IMO).

Don't forget that they should be adding a whole slew of new items pokemon can hold...perhaps one of them will negate a type against them...or something...I dunno. I still think that having connectability to rusafrlg is a bad idea, it limits DP too much.

 

[Shadow Nataku]

All good points. I just think that 00bers and stuff like Suicune should be banned instead of bothering with counters, though.

Well I wish they would, but they need to release a official format for it to have ground. Like make tourneys require it or an actual no legendary clause in the next Stadium game or Link game.

I hope they power up Houndoom and Arcanine a bit, both have lots of potential. =]

Powerup those 2? Why o_O All they'd need is a few more moves and they'd be excellent, they're already some of the better fire types.

Houndoom can damage any type decently once Sunnyday is up and Arcanine has one of the highest total stat totals in the game.
As I recall statwise its equal to Tyrannitar/Dragonite and only abit less than Entei. Only thing is it is a crappy type, plus bad movepool.

Hopefully they'll shuffle around the weaknesses and resistances, somehow. I know that they changed some stuff to poision once rusa came out.

That'd actually be a good idea....as I recall back in RBY Poison was weak to bug but now its resistant vs Bug. Also Poison was neutral to Ghost but its now ineffective vs Ghost. Plus Rock used to be neutral to fire, it was when they made Fire weak to Rock in GSC, Fire types got completely shafted.

I'd also probably make Dark super effective vs Normal...it'd be interesting to say the least or shuffle around Steel or Poison to be effective vs Water. I'd go for Poison though since it'd make sense, (polluted water = pwned), plus Poison has the worse diversity of effectiveness, weak vs Fighting, Bug, Ghost, Poison, Steel, Ground and Rock. Plus if they did, it'd make Rock/Water types actually decent since they'd be one of the only water types neutral to it

 

[Marc]

Powerup those 2? Why o_O All they'd need is a few more moves and they'd be excellent, they're already some of the better fire types.

I wast just giving two examples of Pokémon I like. Both of them lack something, especially Arcanine. Not really talking statwise, but especially in the department of moves. Arcanine's movepool is pretty bad for example, and he doesn't get STAB on a lot of things. The fire type is pretty bad anyway, they really need to rehaul it for a bit. Houndoom has about the same defensive power as Alakazam (non-existent =p), while Alakazam is much faster and does more damage. They need to make Houndoom a bit like him (more speed, maybe more special attack). I don't really count on them remaking existing Pokes though. =/

 

[Kokichi]

I wonder if in DP they can make it so it readjusts an imported pokemon's stats for a better balanced game...Well, I'm sure that they easily COULD, but chances are very slim that they would. Also, I wonder if when you catch and raise an old pokemon, like a Houndour or something, in DP, will it have close to the same stats? Or will it get a complete overhaul?

Oh, and I think that Bug needs to start being more effective against stuff and to have more resistances...right now it's like the red-headed step child of pokemon types.

 

[Shadow Nataku]

I wonder if in DP they can make it so it readjusts an imported pokemon's stats for a better balanced game...Well, I'm sure that they easily COULD, but chances are very slim that they would. Also, I wonder if when you catch and raise an old pokemon, like a Houndour or something, in DP, will it have close to the same stats? Or will it get a complete overhaul?

Its possible.....as I've already mentioned they have changed some bases around...Blissey's speed was cut by 10 base from GSC to RBY (but they raised its spcl.def another 10 ¬_¬)

And chances would be if you can trade them over, they would simply keep their current EV's and their stats would be re-adjusted to their new bases. That is if they've changed. Although in that sense its probably better to simply re-train a new one.

Oh, and I think that Bug needs to start being more effective against stuff and to have more resistances...right now it's like the red-headed step child of pokemon types.

Bug actually has very good typing, resistant to ground, poison, fighting and dark 2 of which being the most popular physical attacks in the game. Plus effectiveness vs Psychic, Dark and Swarm being an extremely common Bug trait helps them alot. Only thing the Bug's would need is access to a decent Bug attack.

Thats unlike poison types who just have the most useless effectiveness in the game. Though their resistances is good.

One other thing I'd really like is to stop making stupid novelty pokemon.....nothing annoys me more than them making unusuable pokemon or 3 stage evolutions who have non-existant stats and nothing overwhelming to compensate. Mawile, Farfetch'ed, Beedrill, Luvdisc etc.

 

[Marc]

The bugs already have Megahorn, it's just that most bug Pokémon suck... I also think you can't really avoid Nintendo making a lot of new crappy/novelty Pokémon, since they'll probably release another 100 or so of them.

 

[Kokichi]

I guess the thing with bug type pokemon is that most of them suck, either with their move pool or stats. Heracross is the only bug type I ever see used (and for good reason, too, he's **** good in the right hands); Pinsir and Scizor, sometimes. Forretress as well, but he doesn't really have anything to do with his bug type...he's just steel with bug attached. You could say Ninjask / Shedininja, but one of them is a utility and one dies without even fighting against the ever popular Tyranitar, so...yeah. Once a Dragon / Bug type comes out, or some weird combination that has good stats and decent attacks, it'll be good.

I'm split on novelty pokemon, though. Half of me likes seeing cool, different pokemon (Farfetch'd's #1! Farfetch'd's #1!), but the other half is disgusted that they do **** and limit what pokemon a person can really use in battle to be effective. I think if they need to balance it somehow so if a pokemon has weak stats he can be used effectively with a good move pool and some surprising gameplay-turning moves.

 

[Shadow Nataku]

Forretress as well, but he doesn't really have anything to do with his bug type...he's just steel with bug attached.

True but he is used for his typing and defense....Forretress has even less weakness than the more popular Skarmory and equally high defenses. Since Bug directly counters most of the Steel typing's weakness.

And well movepool won't save anyone....just look at Farfetch'ed and Murkrow, their movepools are amazing, completely fantastic but they have no stats virtually. Farfetch'ed is the most screwed up one as he's weaker than even Pikachu statwise.

The bugs already have Megahorn, it's just that most bug Pokémon suck... I also think you can't really avoid Nintendo making a lot of new crappy/novelty Pokémon, since they'll probably release another 100 or so of them.

Well I don't mind them making them, but please if they do all they have to do is raise their stats to a acceptable level? Most of those Novelty pokemon are weaker than pre-evo's and first stage pokemon.
Its nothing big either....raising their stats would not only make them useful but actually give us more choice of what to use without having to add so many more Pokemon.

And they have Megahorn but look how many Bugs learn it.....
Heracross

And non-bugs who learn it.....
Nidoking, Seaking, Rhydon

You get my point.

 

[Kokichi]

Now, do you think that if Nintendo was to put in some kind of new system that made every pokemon's stats relatively equal that would be for the better or worse? If suddenly Farfetch'd was as powerful as Salamence, just with different moves. I think it'd be awesome for gameplay battling, but realistically a player might be thinking "Huh? How'd Farfetch'd take down Salamence?" Hopefully Nintendo will look past "common sense" in a game where creatures live harmoniously with humans.

 

[Marc]

Equal stats will make the game broken in some way too, since it'll depend on movepools then. Tiers will always exist. The only thing they can do is make cheap stuff a bit less cheap, weak stuff a bit less weak and add more counters/variety.

Anyway, what happened to the ultimate team? =p

 

[Shadow Nataku]

I'm not really after ultimate stats but if we compare to Salamence.....

Base stats-

Farfetch'ed-
HP-52, Atk-65, Def-55, Spd-60, Spcl.atk-58, Sp.Def-62

Salamence-
HP-95, Atk-130, Def-80, Spd-100, Spcl.atk-110, Sp.Def-80

A slight boost so it doesn't practically double it would be nice...

Equal stats will make the game broken in some way too, since it'll depend on movepools then. Tiers will always exist. The only thing they can do is make cheap stuff a bit less cheap, weak stuff a bit less weak and add more counters/variety.

Which is exactly what I want....not kill tiers...but create less gap between the tiers.

Anyway, what happened to the ultimate team? =p

As for ultimate team, theres not really one but it'd probably most likely comprise of some of these bunch...the typical OU's.

Heracross, Regice, Jolteon, Aerodactyl, Salamence, Tyrannitar, Skarmory, Miltank, Blissey, Forretress, Gengar, Swampert, Suicune, Raikou

Although from what I've seen the deadliest teams are those with just 2 high speed and high spcl.atk special sweepers, (Jolteon, Gengar, Alakazam) plus 2 Choicebanders, a cleric/utility or physical sweeper with a powerup and 1 tank.

 

[THE RED SPARROW]

All good points. I just think that 00bers and stuff like Suicune should be banned instead of bothering with counters, though.

I hope they power up Houndoom and Arcanine a bit, both have lots of potential. =]

I hate this stupid banning. When will people realizing that banning everything cuz they don't like dealing it will only make more pokemon broken anyways. It doesn't make a difference which is why bannign is stupid IMO.

Same way banning Marth, Sheik, Fox in SSBM would be stupid cuz everyone would just be playing CF, Peach, Falco, Samus anyways.

 

[Kokichi]

Sparrow, the point of banning something is that you try to get more pokemon fighting other pokemon that are about on the same tier, the same level. That makes for a much more even and fun fight.

You can't really compare it to SSBM because the tiers difference and gameplay difference are too great. But if there was an obviously overpowered character who took 500% to knock off the stage and could C-stick anyone at 0% into an instant death, then banning it would make the game more balanced and more fun.

That's the point.

 

[Shadow Nataku]

Comparing SSBM to Pokemon is like trying to compare a monkey to a crocodile........

You simply think tiers are the same for absolutely every game? SSBM is by far one of the most balanced games with tiers, where the difference between characters is minor and easily changed due to variable gameplay.

Pokemon is a game with FIXED stats, FIXED moves and generally the tiers are so obvious you have to be either stupid or blind to not notice them. Tier 1 pokemon literally outpower everything by 200-300% and pack nearly 3 times the moves as well.

So I don't see how the game becomes more broken.

 

[Marc]

Yeah, the game's much more limited than something like SSBM.

I'm using a team of Jolteon/Dugtrio/Swampert/Gengar/Weezing/Milotic atm, works like a charm. =]

 

[Kokichi]

Standard sets on all of them?

 

[I_R_Hungry]

That won't kill it.

Yeah, yeah, I haven't been here for a while, delaying the inevitable, blah blah blah.

Don't let it ****ing set up. ._. Seriously, you deserve to get destroyed if you let the thing come out and set up on you again and again.

Suicune, Raikou, etc are not invincible or that much harder to beat than many other pokemon. Metagross is much more dangerous than both of them. For one thing, it doesn't need to set up to do something. Hazing will do nothing. If you ban the legendary trios then you should ban the high-tier pokemon, as well.

And if your team can't handle a high-tiered pokemon/legend without luck/ half of your pokemon dieing, then you need to change your team, now don't you?

 

[Marc]

Metagross is easy to beat with both Swampert and Milotic, and often takes over 50% from Jolteon as well. Raikou gets owned by Dugtrio. Suicune however, has the defenses to survive almost everything and should be banned from normal play, since a Calm Mind is almost inevitable. The Water type also doesn't have much weaknesses, as was pointed out in this topic before.

And no, I won't use stuff like Blissey/Suicune myself, ever. I also don't need to, since I do win most of my matches.

Standard sets on all of them?

Yeah, nothing really original.

 

[I_R_Hungry]

Honestly, Metagross is easily one of the most dangerous pokemon in the metagame. Sure, Milotic and Swampert can beat it, but he needs a weakness. Hell, I think HP Grass might be used on the mixed set. Not even Skarm can properly wall the thing. Jolteon? Lol.

Raikou can beat the crap out of Duggy if it gets a Sub up. Duggy has to pray that it isn't a OHKO. Also, most people run Adamant Duggy since he is a cool Celebi/Blissey counter.

Suicune dies to tons of stuff. There are plenty of good UU that are useable in the standard metagame that piss all over him, like Poliwrath. Anything with Haze. Anything that is faster and can Phaze. He can't switch into Focus Punches. Choice Banders take a huge chunk out of him.

And if you force him to rest, and phaze him, your opponent has a sleeping Suicune. ._. Hawt.

 

[Shadow Nataku]

Honestly, Metagross is easily one of the most dangerous pokemon in the metagame. Sure, Milotic and Swampert can beat it, but he needs a weakness.

He does have weaknesses.......Fire, Ground and sub-par spcl.def on a pure offensive set come to mind.......

And if you force him to rest, and phaze him, your opponent has a sleeping Suicune. ._. Hawt.

Hello there Heal Bell

 

[I_R_Hungry]

He does have weaknesses.......Fire, Ground and sub-par spcl.def on a pure offensive set come to mind.......

But it'll sweep the hell out of a team like nothing. With Agility, it's practically guaranteed to sweep your opponent's team, as long as you got rid of their physical wall.
And besides, Metagross sweeps Fires, and Grounds won't be able to KO him before he does so to them. If they have the common Rock type attached to them, he'll rip them apart, as well, and if they're slow, they're doomed.

Hello there Heal Bell

And all decent teams have to have a Heal Beller to be effective, right? Besides, much of the time you'll be allowing them to set up and sweep your ***.

 

[Falcomaster16]

To be honest there is no such thing as the best team. Because one team will beat another team, and that team will be another team, and so on and so forth.

 

[Kokichi]

God you're ********. Try reading the first post next time before you comment, instead of just reading the title. Idiot.

 

[Snakebite]

Has anyone noticed pika creeping up the line in stats and secture.

It got Volt tackle and A handy lightball equiped Pika can be one of the strongest first forms.
MY undying hate for pika and in each new game it gets better and better.

I dont mind the idea of having ubers. I just think they should be seperated into a different teir of their own. It makes sense having powerfull pokemon and weak ones. They should focus more on counters so nothing is unbeatable.

Anyway I've always wanted a higher level then a hundred that be fun. Alkthough I dont think anyone agrees here.

 

[THE RED SPARROW]

It got Volt tackle and A handy lightball equiped Pika can be one of the strongest first forms.
MY undying hate for pika and in each new game it gets better and better.

I dont mind the idea of having ubers. I just think they should be seperated into a different teir of their own. It makes sense having powerfull pokemon and weak ones. They should focus more on counters so nothing is unbeatable.

Anyway I've always wanted a higher level then a hundred that be fun. Alkthough I dont think anyone agrees here.

Why is it than only Pika/Raichu can only learn that move? Volt Tackle is basically like Explosion from them since they can't and the recoil.

 

[Finalsilence]

Eh no creating the best team isnt possible In game or Rsbot/Netbattle(Online) because even a bellydrumed poke can be stalled a tank that can take and react but since you guys are SSBM Players you can mindgame these people (Eh a crappy version)at its most basic I guess and even if you are able to out predict into immunities and into setups constant setups can be destroyed by spikes(3layers) and see if there ARE spikes set up and you are able to Set up a poke(Gyar Dragon danced/Charizard Belly drummed or a Curselax) even if it is +6 certain pokes can stall you (Maybe a skarm to Curselax) and Suicune to all of them (As long as your Ivs and Evs are set correctly) eh if you dont believe me I think start of FRLG(Or if drum was in GSC) Bellyzard was Unstoppable and the only real counter was a suicune(Your poke died switch to sui Roar out cant switch on the switch and skarm gets Flamed) so I dont really see any perfect team even if your team achieves 100% power(Netbattle power rating eh its crappy though) with ubers there are counter ubers without using ubers themselves like Shedinja(Kyogre,Rayquaza(They dont cary stabbed Hp flying unless the useris stupid)Mewtwo(Forgot if Psychic is SE against bug) Lugia and Deox all stalled by Shedinja and for ground eh theres nothing really hes the best poke there is and I guess it would require predicted f punches a good roar and I guess a shedinja into a Sword danced EQ and switch into something else I guess Gyar would work but it might cary SD EQ RS FB soooo no team is really the best and if you were to make a truly good team you must have pokes that cover eachother (IN the UU world Aggron with Xatu and Aggron with alot else bish is cool Immunity to ground and 4x Resist to F punch) =) if this all was countered in these 5 pages ) meh bad didnt read it dont have time

 

[Kokichi]

Finalsilence = yet another n00b who doesn't bother to even read the first post, only the title. Also, I think his Enter button his computer is broken. Poor guy.

 

[I_R_Hungry]

God you're ********. Try reading the first post next time before you comment, instead of just reading the title. Idiot.

Jebus, could you lay off of the friggin' insults? -.-"

 

[THE RED SPARROW]

Jebus, could you lay off of the friggin' insults? -.-"

I agree elitism galore. :embarrass

 

[I_R_Hungry]

And that was one monster of a paragraph, FinalSilence... ... Wait. There isn't even a period to be found in that monster, is there? O_o

 

[Finalsilence]

Got that right =P gramma aint my leader =P alright Minimize failure... one thing I found very stupid was ZAP AND SUI BAN ok what if you ARE in a tight spot a 6 DDED Sala what are you gonna switch in?! nothing.... Cept maybe Sui to roar em out and stuff hmmmmm Post a team meh mann and baton passing teaMS ingrain and ect are crappy can easily be hazed and all and whats your name on netbattle(I didnt really read it into detail but I will)

 

[Finalsilence]

You beat chaos's team?................................................. Sure SSMB Players have superior mind games but NO not a UU team and you must you some sort of legendary I guess it could work hmmmm but Immunity switch whoring will NOT work NVE attacks will ***** you out and you WILL die you should use donphan instead if claydon if you will rapid spin because if its a stall team or a team thats based around the trifecta
dusclops will stop your Spinning and WoW you also you must have a status absorber blissey can work but you have to use Hp water(For gar and breaking boahs sub) with around 190 special attack evs so boah cant get you or until his use dwindles but with that will come a Reversal/Flail explosion and you have to have a zappy counter and if your still going with this immunity thing Shedinja will help you greatly because the zap hardly ever carries drill peck because of natures and evs and stuff so shedinja into TB/HP GRASS ICE and Sunny day (for tar) and stuff OPs gtg

 

[THE RED SPARROW]

"You can't refuse an encore"

 

[Finalsilence]

Zap gets encore? wait what?!