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Countering with Yoshi--A comprehensive guide created for the people by the people

Chaco

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Alright so here is the just of this soon to be massive project. I want to make a guide to countering all types of spam, OU moves, techs, etc. But to do this it's going to take massive experience in that area, against that character. I mean you would have to know the character inside out to know how to face the more melee styles, spammable style, or the odd styles. To successfully when your matches when brought at hand you must now what to do when each attack against you is initiated.

So questions, comments, concerns?

We'll start soon. Starting with the majorly diverse characters, and the most spammable characters. How to counter, when to counter, and adjusting.
 

Shiri

Smash Chump
Joined
Nov 7, 2004
Messages
3,804
:yoshi: I hate to be a pooper, but I have a few questions and some general concerns about this.

I guess my first question is: why? Don't let the one-word nature of my question put you on guard, but I'm just wondering why. Besides my personal convictions about how Brawl is played and what works and why it works, the idea of this seems a little too general. Once people start asking questions or looking for specific information, the scope of this project, I think, is not going to be narrow enough to present what you want people to see. I may be misreading it, though, and correct me if I am.

If you mean a comprehensive and intelligible list something along the lines of:

How to counter Meta Knight Tornado spam: <insert technique> <insert reasoning behind technique with insight>

How to counter King Dedede grab spam: <insert technique/idea/strategy/etc.>

...then I can see where you are going with this. Despite the fact that these things mainly boil down to smarts and knowledge of character specific techniques and strategies (those for Yoshi, in this case), it's a clear-cut goal and relatiely easy to achieve. If you're essentially trying to build a "How to counter <insert character here/insert playstyle here> with Yoshi" guide, then I think this may be a little misguided. Especially when it comes to styles, "when to adjust", and other factors, there really is no ON button to push regarding when to switch up behavior or to start reading more thoroughly into your opponent.

Individual playstyles matter a lot in this game and I think many things come down to how spam techs are used and not necessarily how often they are used. For instance, we can spend al day talking about the most spammable and definitely the cheapest move in the game--Meta Knight's Tornado. We can discuss how to beat it all day, but in the end, if you're facing a Meta Knight that always waits until you perform an action that takes too long to shield or run out of, then you're boned and cannot counter the technique (in actually, you cannot counter the playstyle here). I understand that this is a very general and situational example, but I think we all need to realize that regardless of how spammy this game is, intelligent use of spam is what wins matches. Making a "guide" to attempt to counter spam or melee or whatever, I think, is pretty futile. I mean, just discussing these things is great and I think would bolster the overall intelligence and mental fortification of the posters here. However, I think having something clear-cut that denotes X way of dealing with Y is going down a very...narrow-minded path.

These are just my questions and concerns. If I've implied anything along the lines of me misunderstanding the purpose of this, then please let me know. Thanks.
 

cykofox

Smash Ace
Joined
Jun 24, 2008
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760
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Burbank, IL
Lolz....here is all the comprehensive truth about YOSHI.

Play defensively, meaning wait for your opponent to attack.
Edgeguarding: Lick em up and spit em out of the stage to go for the fair, if you miss and they come back on stage bair to ftilt and repeat...

Remember a healthy yoshi is a patient one.
 
D

Deleted member

Guest
Uhhhh i dont really know if this will work, but id hate for online experience (sowwy mmac and scat) to go in here =/ Onlines just too different, totally different game.


Also, i kinda agree with the other stuff people have said, but i guess it might help people browsing through.
 

SOVAman

Smash Hero
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In VA **** MD
I think we can but specific help for specific characters and there techniques under the first post on the match up thread.
 

bigman40

Smash Master
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Oct 11, 2007
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Just another day.
I actually have offline and online experience stocky. Not many are fought offline due to the lack of brawl players around me, but yeah....Most of the generalized ideas I make are both online and offlne experience. So, I can contribute a small amount.
 

Vect0r

Smash Journeyman
Joined
Aug 20, 2008
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Smashville
Yoshi is pretty much a defensive character. Playing aggressive with Yoshi is an obvious
no-no.

For Yoshi, waiting until there's an open spot to attack is one of his main tactics.
 

Chaco

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@Shiri: First of all I'm on my iPhone doors a little hard to see everything that you said. But I'll dip into the why category. So first off I'll tell you about the match that made me want to do this. So I was playing a friend and he used Olimar, but the thing is that he is insane good and has the problem of setting up a tent and camping. Über camping...to the extent any move I tried was cancelled. I tried almost everything in yoshi's arsenal but all to no avail. This guy 3 stocked me with 32%. So I had noclie on what to do when I was pinned down. That is why I don't want someone else getting into this situation. I just couldn't seem to do anything against the spam. And I thought of the other Olimars I had played and none had camped this heavily. So that's why I think styles are an important part of the discussion.
 

Scala

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Mar 13, 2008
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that makes me lean even more towards just relying on the matchup thread... if you're having issues with olimar, you should say so and we'll all brainstorm how to get around it
 

Chaco

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hmmmmmm....true. It I guess I just was mad when I mRs this thread. 0_I
 

Kress

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Yoshi is pretty much a defensive character. Playing aggressive with Yoshi is an obvious
no-no.

For Yoshi, waiting until there's an open spot to attack is one of his main tactics.
My yoshi's pretty agressive .__.
It's like jab-jab, spot-dodge, spot-dodge, spot-dodge, shield, grab, grab release, USmash(Uair), pivot grab, down trhow, egg toss, yoshi bomb, hypen upsmash.......

....now that I think, the spotdodge is pretty defensive... ...playing as yoshi has made me go defensive trough the years, and I didn't even noticed it D:! I gotta b more defensive now ._.
 

Chaco

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I play an overly aggressive Yoshi as is...my defense is also really good...
 

TKD

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How about you start with Metaknight? I'm almost completely ignorant when it comes to Yoshi talk, but I do know Yoshi can range from giving a hard time to pretty much destroying Metaknight when countering on Final Destination and Smashville.

So we have the counterstages. That's a start. The reason? Egg toss, egg toss, pivot grab, upsmash, upsmash, chaingrab, spike. You can spam everything that works, because it works. And it's sure to work when MK can't get surprisingly saved by random platforms during the chainthrow. Chainthrow's not an extremely important damage dealer but it leads to KOs. A fresh fair's spikehit KOs at 47%, at least in these two stages.

I think you wanted Olimar advice, but you didn't actually request it.
 

Scala

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we discussed olimar already in the matchup thread, as well as MK and every other character in the game

at this point it's going to boil down to people having issues with specific characters and then we'll have to rehash old information and come up with new stuff
 

Chaco

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True, well this was an anger thread and shouldn't have ever been made.
 

Naucitos

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Im not sure if this is 100% of the time or if they screwed up, but its worth mentioning that yoshis fair breaks falcos downthrow chain
 
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