Countering Aerial Approaches

[ElectroBlooper]

1st Post.

I've been playing as Bowser a lot lately and I'm starting to see that he's more than just a pretty face. His ground game is awesome (God tier if he could walk while flaming) and his flame breath and ftilt can screw with most ground approaches very well. However, I'm having a lot of trouble handling characters that like to approach via SH aerials. I've noticed it against mostly small fast characters like Kirby, Jiggs, etc (pika's a *****). This could very well apply to other characters (Wario for sure), I just haven't played against many of them yet with Bowser. They're always just outside of ftilt's hitbox from the beginning of the jump until their attack connects and they're never in range of an utilt (that or I just suck at using utilt). You can't shield and punish very well because most of the characters that do this have practically lagless aerials. Any tips?

 

[Phiddlesticks]

For the most part, using a fortress out of shield should work I think. If it's a character like Jigglypuff/Wario/Squirtle who can attack with an aerial and then float out of fortress range though, I dunno :s Maybe a SH Fair out of shield or something?

Or perhaps you could do what lvl 9 computers do and powershield to an immediate up smash ¬_¬

 

[Sliq]

Use a fair. If you know they are going to aerial, retreating fair. It auto-cancels!

 

[Buuman]

jab out of sheild

 

[KevinM]

I pivot F-smash if I'm feeling sexy I did it a couple times yesterday when I played before I plugged melee back in >_>.

 

[3GOD]

Use a fair. If you know they are going to aerial, retreating fair. It auto-cancels!

Yes, do this, and if your Fair misses, shield upon landing and counter their attack with Fortress out of shield (it's the safest option, and safety first is important to winning). Or if they are not going to be able to close the gap enough, you can Ftilt them as they land.

 

[S_B]

Might I suggest shieldgrab?

Seriously, the #1 counter Bowser has against rodent sized characters that love to SHFair into him is the shieldgrab.

Typically, after the first hitbox of the attack hits your shield, the rodent character will still be falling to the ground. At this point, hit A and Bowser should immediately connect with a shieldgrab.

Last I checked, being hit with the startup fortress only deals 11% damage. Meanwhile, Bowser's down-throw does 12% and can be easily followed up with fire breath (since most seem to roll right into it, heh). This even assumes the rodent isn't damaged enough to hit a few times.

But seriously, I used to hate SHFairers but thanks to shieldgrab, I love them because of how easily countered it is.

You just NEED to make sure you connect it while they're still falling. Otherwise, they can pull a down smash upon landing.

 

[Sliq]

Might I suggest shieldgrab?

Seriously, the #1 counter Bowser has against rodent sized characters that love to SHFair into him is the shieldgrab.

Typically, after the first hitbox of the attack hits your shield, the rodent character will still be falling to the ground. At this point, hit A and Bowser should immediately connect with a shieldgrab.

Last I checked, being hit with the startup fortress only deals 11% damage. Meanwhile, Bowser's down-throw does 12% and can be easily followed up with fire breath (since most seem to roll right into it, heh). This even assumes the rodent isn't damaged enough to hit a few times.

But seriously, I used to hate SHFairers but thanks to shieldgrab, I love them because of how easily countered it is.

You just NEED to make sure you connect it while they're still falling. Otherwise, they can pull a down smash upon landing.

Anyone that spaces anything is going to just laugh at you as you grab nothing, then hit you with a move. Also, they can easily cross you up and hit you with a move they have no business landing on you because you decided to hug the air.

 

[S_B]

Anyone that spaces anything is going to just laugh at you as you grab nothing, then hit you with a move. Also, they can easily cross you up and hit you with a move they have no business landing on you because you decided to hug the air.

Bowser is about punishing the mistakes of others, and in the heat of battle, even the best opponents make mistakes, like not spacing properly and allowing themselves to be shieldgrabbed.

Besides, if you time it right and perfect shield the first hit, you can grab with no shieldstun immediately.

Often, I'll have an opponent try to aerial me from above and then fall to either side of me (the game auto-spaces characters by pushing them apart so their feet never coincide). At that point, if they fall in front, it's a shieldgrab. Behind, fortress out of shield.

If they space far enough out, I'd say standard A once and then follow it with a tilt.

 

[Sliq]

Bowser is about punishing the mistakes of others, and in the heat of battle, even the best opponents make mistakes, like not spacing properly and allowing themselves to be shieldgrabbed.

That's true, but I'm thinking the grabs you get off aren't going to be worth the smash attacks you take if you go to grab and they are out of reach, waiting with an attack.

Besides, if you time it right and perfect shield the first hit, you can grab with no shieldstun immediately.

That's true, but I'd imagine if you powershield you have much better options at your disposal, dependent on where they go with the aerial (away, dash claw, f tilt; behind, down smash, f tilt, claw).

Often, I'll have an opponent try to aerial me from above and then fall to either side of me (the game auto-spaces characters by pushing them apart so their feet never coincide). At that point, if they fall in front, it's a shieldgrab. Behind, fortress out of shield.

I doubt that you'll be able to react in time to make a decision on which one to do without reading your opponents movement and making a decision beforehand.

I'm not saying don't sheild grab, but shield grabbing is easily baitable, and can be punished.

 

[S_B]

I doubt that you'll be able to react in time to make a decision on which one to do without reading your opponents movement and making a decision beforehand.

Honestly, you'd think so, but given Bowser's size (specifically height), I've been in many situations where someone Dairs into my shield from above, and I can see Bowser being pushed left/right and determine far enough in advance which side the foe will land on that I can consciously decide to shieldgrab or fortress.

I'm not saying don't sheild grab, but shield grabbing is easily baitable, and can be punished.

I agree that it can be punished, but there's another side to this: if an enemy lands within shieldgrab range and I go to tilt/jab instead, it's been my experience that they shieldgrab ME as soon as they land if they're close enough (the good players do, anyway).

Also, many faster characters (Fox, Pikachu, etc.) can land from a Fair or Dair and IMMEDIATELY follow it with a dsmash which will hit Bowser's now unshielded feet and will also hit him when he goes to tilt/jab.

I agree that it's situational, but the key is knowing when to grab and knowing when to tilt...or you could play it safe and fortress out of shield away every time.

 

[KevinM]

When people hit my shield I normally jump out and retreat F-air