Counter List

[_Burner_]

Will you stop giving your opinions when you don't know anything? This is going to turn out like the tier list discussion. Random people putting in there opinions that are really off and then screwing everyone up.

Another reason why we need an ssb64 backroom

You phail. You wouldn't train me *Hint*

 

[Zantetsu]

You phail. You wouldn't train me *Hint*

LOL! That's 2 people I've seen in disguises tonight.

Srsly guys. Show yuh self.

 

[SheerMadness]

Playing someone else doesn't really prove anything. If that were true, Link > Pika because Isai's Link can beat my Pikachu.

That makes no sense to me. You can't say that Yoshi is disadvantaged in a bunch of matchups just because most people suck with or don't use him.

Just because you guys **** a bunch of Yoshi noobs on kaillera doesn't mean he's disadvantaged against Falcon.

 

[Zantetsu]

That makes no sense to me. You can't say that Yoshi is disadvantaged in a bunch of matchups just because most people suck with or don't use him.

Just because you guys **** a bunch of Yoshi noobs on kaillera doesn't mean he's disadvantaged against Falcon.

That's not what I was referring to. I do agree with you on that part but what you said about challenging people to a falcon vs yoshi match wouldn't help anything.

 

[KoRoBeNiKi]

for my experience for yoshi specifically
yoshi's combos are really good...but only mostly vs the fast fallers or heavies, yoshi does bad vs grabs and most projecitles (as in fox's lasers/throws, and falcon's throws)
1. Pikachu: pikachu counters yoshi (60 40), yoshi doesn't have as many combos vs any of the lighter characters, pikachu has a recovery that is difficult to gimp, plus....pika's back throw
2. Kirby: Kirby definitley (80-20), I say yoshi's worst matchup, same deal as pika...but even less combos and difficult to counter any of kirby's combos, yoshi has problems countering any muti hit down aerial
3. Ness: (45-55) Even or slightly in yoshi's favor, the problems are from ness's djc's and throws, but yoshi has many combos and can easily gimp ness's recovery...also, yoshi can get out of many combos through djc'ing
4. Fox: Fox (70-30) due to lasers and throws...its very difficult to get out of fox's combos, lasers make approaching hard, and tap a combos by fox are incredibly comboable, yoshi has djc combos including up air/up tilt and n-air
5. Captain Falcon: Falcon (barely...like 55-45) due to throw combos, yoshi has a problem djc'ing against many of falcon's combos....but yoshi has many up tilt and up air combos, falcon can 0 to death, but yoshi can also)
6. Jigglypuff: Another bad matchup, 70-30....yoshi has very small amount of combos....can't gimp ko through up tilt.....Rests and up throw combos can kill yoshi easily
7. Mario: even, problem being throws and fireballs...but yoshi can combo well vs mario,
8. Yoshi: uhhh wut
9. Donkey Kong: problem is throws...but dk is a lot slower than falcon, yoshi has 0 to deaths, dk has mindgames...take you pick, i say yoshi 60-40
10. Luigi: Luigi has combos, yoshi has some even though luigi is incredibly floaty, but up b really kills yoshi and yoshi doesn't have that many gimping moves, 60-40 luigi
11. Samus: Yoshi 60-40, yoshi has combos vs samus, samus has mindgames, samus has a bad laggy throw so that doesn't help her
12. Link: Yoshi (55-45) link's projectiles really hamper yoshi, Yoshi has a huge amount of combos...link is easily gimped

 

[SheerMadness]

That's not what I was referring to. I do agree with you on that part but what you said about challenging people to a falcon vs yoshi match wouldn't help anything.

Sure it would. It would change opinions.

The ONLY char I ever feel disadvantaged against with Yoshi is against Pikachu. Even that prolly isn't a true counter.

 

[Winston]

It did change my opinion >.>

made some edits the chart. I might have overcorrected yoshi's matchups, but sheer insists that basically everything is even except for pika, so I'll put it as that until someone else says otherwise.

should I make a thread for this? or is this one fine

(chart edited again)

 

[NixxxoN]

in this chart Fox is overrated and DK underrated.

 

[Winston]

in this chart Fox is overrated and DK underrated.

Haha, interesting that you comment about the first two rows only.

DK's matchups didn't look right to me as I thought he was a decent character, but in thinking about it, I really can't figure out what actual favorable matchups he has.

Fox does **** floaty characters pretty hard and goes even with Pikachu, Falcon, Kirby I'm pretty sure. So tell me how he's overrated.

 

[NixxxoN]

Haha, interesting that you comment about the first two rows only.

DK's matchups didn't look right to me as I thought he was a decent character, but in thinking about it, I really can't figure out what actual favorable matchups he has.

Fox does **** floaty characters pretty hard and goes even with Pikachu, Falcon, Kirby I'm pretty sure. So tell me how he's overrated.

DK's favorables: (imo) Yoshi and Link

And about Fox I dont think he's even with those you said. Hes worse. And Hes worse against Ness also I think.

Or I'm probably wrong and Fox is top tier just right after pikachu according to this chart.

 

[greenblob]

Playing someone else doesn't really prove anything. If that were true, Link > Pika because Isai's Link can beat my Pikachu.

But aren't tiers based on the highest level of play? If the best Yoshi can beat the best Falcon, Yoshi>Falcon.
Not sure about ShirMadness' level though, but I know he's up there.

 

[TehBo49]

Some of Fox's matchups IMO:

Fox < Captain Falcon
Fox < Pikachu
Fox < Kirby
Fox = Ness

 

[SuPeRbOoM]

So what about stage counters? Ugh.

 

[Surri-Sama]

this thread has gone to hell because there are people with bias tryign to get there opinions in...this thread should be closed and redone on msn....

 

[Zen Yore]

this thread has gone to hell because there are people with bias tryign to get there opinions in...this thread should be closed and redone on msn....

n o

for my experience for yoshi specifically
yoshi's combos are really good...but only mostly vs the fast fallers or heavies, yoshi does bad vs grabs and most projecitles (as in fox's lasers/throws, and falcon's throws)
1. Pikachu: pikachu counters yoshi (60 40), yoshi doesn't have as many combos vs any of the lighter characters, pikachu has a recovery that is difficult to gimp, plus....pika's back throw
2. Kirby: Kirby definitley (80-20), I say yoshi's worst matchup, same deal as pika...but even less combos and difficult to counter any of kirby's combos, yoshi has problems countering any muti hit down aerial
3. Ness: (45-55) Even or slightly in yoshi's favor, the problems are from ness's djc's and throws, but yoshi has many combos and can easily gimp ness's recovery...also, yoshi can get out of many combos through djc'ing
4. Fox: Fox (70-30) due to lasers and throws...its very difficult to get out of fox's combos, lasers make approaching hard, and tap a combos by fox are incredibly comboable, yoshi has djc combos including up air/up tilt and n-air
5. Captain Falcon: Falcon (barely...like 55-45) due to throw combos, yoshi has a problem djc'ing against many of falcon's combos....but yoshi has many up tilt and up air combos, falcon can 0 to death, but yoshi can also)
6. Jigglypuff: Another bad matchup, 70-30....yoshi has very small amount of combos....can't gimp ko through up tilt.....Rests and up throw combos can kill yoshi easily
7. Mario: even, problem being throws and fireballs...but yoshi can combo well vs mario,
8. Yoshi: uhhh wut
9. Donkey Kong: problem is throws...but dk is a lot slower than falcon, yoshi has 0 to deaths, dk has mindgames...take you pick, i say yoshi 60-40
10. Luigi: Luigi has combos, yoshi has some even though luigi is incredibly floaty, but up b really kills yoshi and yoshi doesn't have that many gimping moves, 60-40 luigi
11. Samus: Yoshi 60-40, yoshi has combos vs samus, samus has mindgames, samus has a bad laggy throw so that doesn't help her
12. Link: Yoshi (55-45) link's projectiles really hamper yoshi, Yoshi has a huge amount of combos...link is easily gimped

Maybe if you put spaces I'll read it.

 

[Winston]

@ TehBo:

Fox is better than you think.

@ Boom:

well... this is kind of a general chart, obviously stages change the matchups by quite a bit because hyrule is like the most non-neutral neutral stage ever, but whoever's reading the chart can keep that in mind. Viewer discretion advised.

@ greenblob:

you're right about tiers/mu charts reflecting the highest level of play. Just extrapolating from my matches with SheerMadness (not the results, just what happened in them) I feel like a top yoshi could handle a top falcon. I had thought otherwise before but I had underestimated the maneuverability of yoshi's djc. There might be a slight advantage for falcon, but not enough to warrant a +.

@ Sirhc

Lol?

@ everyone else

does anyone care at all? xP

still waiting for DK/Luigi advice.

 

[Surri-Sama]

im serious..take this away from the boards and simply ask people who know about smash...youll get data more effectivly and more accuratly

 

[x After Dawn x]

I'm pretty sure Yoshi has an advantage over Falcon, though I could be wrong.

 

[Surri-Sama]

I'm pretty sure Yoshi has an advantage over Falcon, though I could be wrong.

its hard for CF to aproach Yoshi but once he does its all over for yoshi...

 

[x After Dawn x]

its hard for CF to aproach Yoshi but once he does its all over for yoshi...

Yeah that's true, but if you can combo Falcon with Yoshi (which is fairly simple if you're a good Yoshi), then Falcon almost has no chance of recovering if you can edgeguard even half-decently.

 

[B Link]

omfg no wonder isai says you don't know what you're talkign about so much to people...

 

[Surri-Sama]

people who post to simply say we dont know what we are talking about should be kicked into the sun

 

[NixxxoN]

people who post to simply say we dont know what we are talking about should be kicked into the sun

isai would pull out a 0-death combo to the sun

No seriously, his debating is sure nowhere near as good as his smashing...