Could video games be considered an art form?

[ZIO]

It's not bad to profit from it. It is the approach most developers are taking.

They themselves don't consider what they make art, so we shouldn't either.

They are making games to make money. To make money, you are pandering to some audience. Therefore, they are limiting their range of expression.

The fist goal should be making the game for the sake of making the game. Profit should be a secondary goal.

 

[Frostwraith]

It's not bad to profit from it. It is the approach most developers are taking.

They themselves don't consider what they make art, so we shouldn't either.

They are making games to make money. To make money, you are pandering to some audience. Therefore, they are limiting their range of expression.

The fist goal should be making the game for the sake of making the game. Profit should be a secondary goal.

Once again, I agree.

Profiting is good, but it shouldn't be a priority when developing the game. That said, if you do make a game that has good quality, you are going to profit and deserve that money.

 

[Falconv1.0]

I've already said many things in my life that normal people wouldn't dare to say loudly.

What the **** is this? Holy crap a guy said something someone disagrees with, what a hero. Now let's all heap our praise on hi-oh no need he's doing it for himself.

Even I'm not that high on myself, Jesus Christ tone it **** down. You're not breaking any boundaries or actually making anyone care.

 

[Twinkles]

I doubt Infinity Ward made COD4 knowing it would somehow be this blockbuster that milked a ****-ton of money from people all over the world. And after knowing that it had achieved this incredible popularity, I don't know why they wouldn't milk it for all it's worth if they know it's money that comes easily. They aren't even doing a huge disservice to a lot of people, most people are quite happy with a new COD even if it's almost identical to the 5 that came before it. And it brings money to their families, let's them buy a nice house, a nice car, good food for their kids, and well-needed college tuition when those kids grow up.

I think what's happening now is a pretty natural occurence. There are still gems of gaming lurking around even today, it's just that they're mostly not within the realm of mainstream gaming as they were before. I think that's just what happens when the medium is expanded to also include the tastes of the commonfolk, which I think is what also happened to the music and the movie industry. Point being, once an entertainment medium becomes an industry, more artists will become more focused on profiting from business and appealing to the masses, rather than making some incredible piece of work that only a few appreciative individuals will see.

tldr; What you're seeing today in gaming today is something natural that occurs with every entertainment medium and it shouldn't bother you too much if you actually look for games that you can enjoy out of all the **** that you don't. As far as I can tell, anyway.

 

[WindMajor]

I never said it's bad to profit from art.

Wasn't directed at you. It was directed at this:

Art should be made for the SAKE of art. Not for the sake of making money to eat. I understand these folks need to eat, but this is why it's hard to consider it art. Some do it for the sake of fame and fortune. Sure, they can have a successful game. That's great. But if their purpose was solely to make money and all, I honestly wouldn't consider it Art.

My point was that just because the artist is milking money from their audience doesn't mean that their artwork should be invalidated as art. Should the Mona Lisa not be considered art if we discover that Da Vinci said that he doesn't care for the art, he just wanted to make money?

It's not bad to profit from it. It is the approach most developers are taking.

They themselves don't consider what they make art, so we shouldn't either.

They are making games to make money. To make money, you are pandering to some audience. Therefore, they are limiting their range of expression.

The fist goal should be making the game for the sake of making the game. Profit should be a secondary goal.

The argument here is more attacking the quality of art and the intentions of the artist, not the status of art.

 

[Luigitoilet]

It's not bad to profit from it. It is the approach most developers are taking.

They themselves don't consider what they make art, so we shouldn't either.

They are making games to make money. To make money, you are pandering to some audience. Therefore, they are limiting their range of expression.

The fist goal should be making the game for the sake of making the game. Profit should be a secondary goal.

Artist intention is meaningless. Wether someone made a product solely to appeal to the masses to make as much money as possible, or if they put their heart into something and put a piece of themselves into the art, it doesn't matter. Once an artist puts their art into the world, it's not theirs. They become a part of the audience.

This is why mass-produced pop like Backstreet Boys is artistically valid. Those vapid pop songs move and inspire people, and it honestly does not matter at all what the original intent behind creating it was. Seperate the art from the artist, otherwise you're not truly looking at the piece of art for what it is but by some nebulous self-defined concept of what it "should" be.

 

[cannedbread]

Dadaism was a weird time in art where they were trying to make a point to be random and make no sense to expression disillusionment with WWI...so i guess thats what the expression for the urinal was

..........wow so they were the hipsters of the past.

whoa get out of my head i was going to make a post involving dadaism

 

[Luigitoilet]

you should still do that, "dadaism is just being random and making no sense because of WW1" is one of the most depressingly reductive oversimplifications I've ever read about any art movement in my life.

 

[Chronodiver Lokii]

Lol I would have gone into more detail

....but i really do not feel like trudging out the old art history knowledge and going back over dadaism

though, i did enjoy the art movement. it was interesting.

So sorry to art history looool

Also applause to you LT. Your posts rock. And +1 to everyone who knows what dadaism is.

 

[cannedbread]

my posts are extremely short and unproductive though

it wouldn't been even worse

 

[Teran]

Also Teran why don't we talk game design?! Srsly!! I already talk with falcon about stuff (between raging at 3DS max or failing at texturing rofl) and he says he talks game design stuff with you xD

Because the only time you ever felt like talking to me would appear to be when you were using Denzi's account.

 

[Luigitoilet]

fair enough, nice namedrop i guess?

 

[Chronodiver Lokii]

Because the only time you ever felt like talking to me would appear to be when you were using Denzi's account.

: P Duuuude he doesnt even go on here anymore.
And I'd talk to you on my AIM account way back when

....But yeah I don't even have AIM installed on my computer rofl

 

[TheLake]

I thought the government like 3-4 years ago accepted videogames as art or somthing to that extent

 

[Falconv1.0]

I thought the government like 3-4 years ago accepted videogames as art or somthing to that extent

Since when the **** does that matter? Oh I guess that ends the abortion debate too and gay rights thing since the government ruled in on that too.

.______.

 

[Teran]

You wouldn't disagree with the Dear Leader would you?

 

[Chronodiver Lokii]

I thought the government like 3-4 years ago accepted videogames as art or somthing to that extent

Wait they did?
AARON WHY DIDN'T I KNOW THISSSSS

 

[Luco]

I dunno what all the big deal about having games considered art is anyways. it doesn't make DOA Bikini Girls Volleyball any more of an artistic achievment. Sure, it's "art", but it's some of the lowest quality available art across any medium, and that goes for the vast majority of all video games ever made.

"art" isn't a word that signifies quality. at this point in time, video games are juvenile, imitative reductionist art that are rarely innovative in any meaningful sense. they're art on the same level as a pinball machine or a B-movie

Not as a whole. Any game that conveys a sense of meaning and has deeper layers can be called a work of art, seeing as that's the criteria for cinema, paintings and sculptures and music to be called art as well. Thus, Bikini Girls Volleyball can only be considered 'art' in that it's fun (Umm, I assume, not that i've played it) and adheres to an underlying principle of gaming. Therefore it is only art on the same spectrum as other games of it's calibre. However, games that meet the criteria I mentioned above can be called art by any standard.

I'm thinking Chrono Trigger and Terranigma, Spec Ops: The Line and Beyond Good and Evil, amongst a bunch of others.

 

[Falconv1.0]

Thus, Bikini Girls Volleyball can only be considered 'art' in that it's fun (Umm, I assume, not that i've played it) and adheres to an underlying principle of gaming.

That is absolutely not the criteria that something meets to be defined as art, the **** kind of logic is that? It's fun and adheres to and underlying....what? How the **** does that make it art?

Scribbles on the wall are art. A beautiful painting is art. Art doesn't have to have some amazing deep meaning but what in the **** are you even saying? It's not even pretentious it's just plain ****ing illogical.

 

[Teran]

I remember when it was cool to say trolling is a art.

 

[Falconv1.0]

I remember when it was cool to say trolling is a art.

wat if tlod u...

u were suposed 2 say "an art"?

8)

Man I think this thread is starting to fry my brain. Does that make it art?

Am I art?

 

[Teran]

Quite frankly I feel this discussion was over within the first few posts.

 

[Luigitoilet]

Not as a whole. Any game that conveys a sense of meaning and has deeper layers can be called a work of art, seeing as that's the criteria for cinema, paintings and sculptures and music to be called art as well. Thus, Bikini Girls Volleyball can only be considered 'art' in that it's fun (Umm, I assume, not that i've played it) and adheres to an underlying principle of gaming. Therefore it is only art on the same spectrum as other games of it's calibre. However, games that meet the criteria I mentioned above can be called art by any standard.

I'm thinking Chrono Trigger and Terranigma, Spec Ops: The Line and Beyond Good and Evil, amongst a bunch of others.

What the hell are you blathering about

 

[Luco]

That is absolutely not the criteria that something meets to be defined as art, the **** kind of logic is that? It's fun and adheres to and underlying....what? How the **** does that make it art?

Scribbles on the wall are art. A beautiful painting is art. Art doesn't have to have some amazing deep meaning but what in the **** are you even saying? It's not even pretentious it's just plain ****ing illogical.

I mean, each type of 'art' has it's own purpose. Media is mostly meant to entertain or to have fun, and yet things such as art in the literal sense are more about inspiring thought and having deep meaning, which is where (I believe) the idea of art as a whole, including media and the like sprung from. With media, however, you have examples that only adhere to pleasure, entertainment or fun. These adhere to media's principles but that doesn't make them 'art' on that sense I mentioned above. It makes them a stock-standard film or piece of music or game. This is what I was trying to explain by using the phrase "Thus, Bikini Girls Volleyball can only be considered 'art' in that it's fun (Umm, I assume, not that i've played it) and adheres to an underlying principle of gaming". I'm saying that while they adhere to a principle of gaming, that's all. It doesn't really make them art unless you make a real stretch, the only way you could consider them being art is because they adhere to a principle of media, which CAN (but doesn't always) adhere to what we consider to be art. However, that in itself doesn't constitute art (okay, this is like the third time i''ve said that in this argument now, I should stop). Basically it's like saying you're related to a celebrity because your uncle believes he is related to a celebrity because of his wife or something, though no-one is quite sure.

^ Actually that's probably a bad example. In any case, I can see why what I said before would be mis-understood. I hope that clears it up. If not, just say so and don't shoot me because of it lol.

 

[Luigitoilet]

 

[Luco]

Lol. Alright. I'm okay with that. :-P

 

[Falconv1.0]

Luco, this is you trying to make a point:

This is me trying to make sense of anything you say ever:

This ****in thread, man.

 

[Chronodiver Lokii]

People arguing the definition of art
what
why

No
This pains me greatly

 

[Luco]

People arguing the definition of art
what
why

No
This pains me greatly

Ah, do not worry. Art is art, art is good, everyone's happy.

 

[Luigitoilet]

Luco why do you send me Visitor Messages when you don't have yours activated and I can't reply?

 

[Teran]

Like really why do people do that? I never had to deal with the problem as an SMod but it sorta kinda pisses me off now.

 

[Luco]

Luco why do you send me Visitor Messages when you don't have yours activated and I can't reply?

It doesn't come up? That's strange, I never set my settings to be that way. :/