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Corrin's counter is undeniably broken

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Xpwnage123

Smash Cadet
Joined
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We all know that Corrin's counter is at least very good. There have been a plethora of videos emerging showing just how strong it is. Some examples are:
Killing Marth @ 25% https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vwrunvHJqlM
And her killing Bowser at 0% off a fully charged Fsmash https://twitter.com/BlankSmash/status/695604041087328258

However, recently this clip emerged of an actual game, where Little Mac was killed at 3%:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3R5VZ1FGmPE

To me this is infuriating. I'm not a huge fan of Little Mac, but to his credit he was completely outplaying the Corrin, only to die because of one counter. However, what's even worse is some of the responses to these videos such as "I mean It was a tipper Fsmash ¯_(ツ)_/¯" or "You use Little Mac, you had it coming".

Are Corrin mains really in such denial? 2.57 KBG is ridiculous, and the fact that the counter hits on both sides and launches at an upward angle means it completely outclass every counter in the game. Not even Finishing Touch or KO punch can kill at 3%.

And of course there's the obvious counter argument that you should "just play around it" and "that it leaves Corrin vulnerable if it misses." That's not a satisfactory justification at all. I know how to bait a counter, and how to punish people for it, but the truth of the matter is if you play a skilled player, they will know how to land it, and you'll never be able to avoid it one hundred percent of the time. Furthermore, all of the other counters in the game have the same risk/reward element to it, except in their case the reward is much lower. You shouldn't be able to be reliably killed at 3% for one mistake.

The truth of the matter is that Corrin needs to be rebalanced. If you don't think this is the case, then you're delusional. I personally have my doubts that Patch 1.14 was truly the last patch. Right now the game is in an unbalanced state. Both Corrin and Bayonetta (as much as I love her) need some tweaking, and some glitches need to be addressed. Nintendo can't possibly introduce two new characters into the meta and expect everything to be left completely fine. So fingers crossed that some changes happen.
 
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exnecross

Smash Journeyman
Joined
Apr 2, 2015
Messages
214
Counters are still extremely risky and punishable, and only to be used as a mixup maybe once per set, if not once per tournament. Corrin's is less of a waste of a moveslot than all the others that got slapped with a counter, but I doubt we will be seeing it much in high level play. In low level play it can be annoying I'd imagine, but so is Little Mac.
 

Shog

Smash Ace
Joined
May 13, 2014
Messages
926
I am honest with you, I wouldn't care about the Counter getting nerfed at all.

Having a good counter only makes Corrin hated in casual matches. I agree that it should get nerfed(but only the counter ;P )

Also calling Corrin Mains out to be in denial is rude :/
 
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GoldenMapleLeaf

Smash Cadet
Joined
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Ease your anus there boyo, a lot of us have noted that it can get pretty silly (in the proper gameplay discussion thread), don't need to feel like you need to brigadier for your cause.
 

ZephyrZ

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I think it can be justified by the fact that Corrin sometimes has trouble getting kills, but it's still crazy stupid.
 

Stromp

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I think it can be justified by the fact that Corrin sometimes has trouble getting kills, but it's still crazy stupid.
They could always nerf the counter and buff something else
 

Murlough

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It isn't broken if there are simple ways around it.

It hits hard, so make sure you are careful and respect it at all times.

"It killed Bowser at 0%!!" Who cares? Bowser shouldn't be charging a full F-smash unless he just broke her shield. At any other time the Bowser should be OHKO'd for playing like a complete fool.

Mac is unfortunate but everything about Mac is unfortunate. He still has the ability to bait a counter and grab (even if his grab sucks).
 

Dar4

Smash Apprentice
Joined
Nov 20, 2015
Messages
140
yep, it is ridiculous. hard to defend that it's not broken. I don't see how people can try to defend it. Seems like rage scaling tones it up a ridiculous amount.
 
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Windwraith

Smash Rookie
Joined
Feb 4, 2016
Messages
15
I wouldn't say our counter is broken, per say, as like others have said, counters are excessively easily baited and countered. However, I would admit that it is perhaps a tad over-rewarding for a proper execution. The returned launch modifier seems a bit much, as it nets some KO's far too easily when used to punish aerial jugglers. As opposed to using it on or near the ground, an aerial counter is very, very hard to punish. I would say not to attack an airborne Corrin unless you're 100% positive they aren't going to counter. Most of the time, they won't be, as there are much safer options to return to the ground, especially given Corrin's absurd mobility and maneuverability with b-air and Dragon Lunge, respectively.
 

Corgi

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This is a joke right? If this is Nintendo's way of propagating the new Fire Emblem game, they need to screw off. Smash is almost a form of advertisement for them, especially considering the damn character doesn't even have a released game yet. Why should a character with NO history be allowed next to the greats, AND kill them at completely-broken percents?

I don't care for any amount of justification you could give for the knockback being so strong. This series is inherently oriented at a casual audience, and considering that especially, this move has no place being as strong as it is. Thing is, it isn't even that punishable. It's got the best framedata of any counter in the game (or damn near the best, at least).

Don't get me wrong, I love the way Corrin plays. S/he brings something amazing and new to the cast, but I don't think a broken counter is the oversized cherry on top this already damn good sundae needs.

TL;DR- 20FE is here. We're f***ed, I guess.
 

GoldenMapleLeaf

Smash Cadet
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There are a lot of other reasons to dislike Corrin's counter, but because he's...new? That's why he shouldn't have it? That's really silly. If we're going by Nintendo History, Mario should instakill with his jab.
 

phili

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This is a joke right? If this is Nintendo's way of propagating the new Fire Emblem game, they need to screw off. Smash is almost a form of advertisement for them, especially considering the damn character doesn't even have a released game yet. Why should a character with NO history be allowed next to the greats, AND kill them at completely-broken percents?

I don't care for any amount of justification you could give for the knockback being so strong. This series is inherently oriented at a casual audience, and considering that especially, this move has no place being as strong as it is. Thing is, it isn't even that punishable. It's got the best framedata of any counter in the game (or damn near the best, at least).

Don't get me wrong, I love the way Corrin plays. S/he brings something amazing and new to the cast, but I don't think a broken counter is the oversized cherry on top this already damn good sundae needs.

TL;DR- 20FE is here. We're f***ed, I guess.
Completely agree with everything you said here. I love how corrin plays and am strongly considering playing corrin as a secondary. However, that counter is completely broken and needs to be nerfed. There is no reason any character should die at 3% for slightly charging a forward smash because they tried to read an air dodge....
 

ZephyrZ

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This is a joke right? If this is Nintendo's way of propagating the new Fire Emblem game, they need to screw off. Smash is almost a form of advertisement for them, especially considering the damn character doesn't even have a released game yet. Why should a character with NO history be allowed next to the greats, AND kill them at completely-broken percents?
Well, Fates is already out in Japan, but that's not the point I want to get to. Why should "history" have anything to do with balance? The point of balancing a game is to make all characters equal, not to make "relevant" characters better.

I agree that Counter Surge definitely is a bit much, but I don't really get your logic here.
 

Raziek

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Your tears sustain me.

Locked. Posts with this sort of inflammatory tone do not produce civil discussion.
 
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