Controller Config. for 2x SH Fair

[opiumfish13]

Good evening. I'm having difficulty in performing the 2x Fair. The reason for this is because I am or not performing the 1st "rising" Fair immediately after the jump. I have always used the X button to jump, and analog to perform aerials. I usually have my thumb over the X button and forefingers over the L and R buttons.

I have found that I can't seem to move my thumb from X to A quickly enough; this is the case for Samus's Dual Missile Jump, and Doc's Rising Pills ending w/ a Waveland. Today I tried something new new; I just barely slid my finger off of Y and immediately pressed the attack. This worked quite for the DMJ and Doc's Pill, and my rate of 2x Fairing went up.

I was wondering, what kind of finger placements do you all use mainly for Marth's Double SH Fair? Do you use the X or Y, slide or tap to SH, etc? Is it possible by using the X button? and just do it in the config I have above (The Y button/sliding off of it feels unnatural in my hands)? Suggestions/Tips would be nice. Thanks in Advance.

 

[CDorrian]

Wear a Band-aid. They give your thumb less friction. Slide it from Y to A, or X to A, whichevers more useful for ya.

 

[nauqneyugn]

I use Z then C Stick.

 

[Pikaville]

Band aids are banned!(only joking but it is kinda cheating)

 

[RPK]

yeah I just use Z when doing a double fair. It prevents a lot of hand movements so it should be easier on you. Unless you accidentally do a JC'd grab instead -_- if you do just find the right timing

 

[Pye]

I personally SH, then mash the Z button until I land. Since you can l-cancel with Z, this works very nicely

I just recently saw Wound of the Wind, and I find Marth's combos very visually appealing, so I picked him up for fun. I'm far from a good Marth, but I can do simple things like repeated double SH fairs -> tipper fsmash with decent consistency with that way of double SH fairing.

The only thing you need to be carful of is to not grab after landing. The lag on an l-canceled fair is VERY short, and it can be easy to keep mashing a little too long. You just need to practice. Also, using Z means you need to be DIing forward while you do them, otherwise you'll nair. You can't do retreating SH double fairs with Z

By the way, nauqneyugn's idea of Z then c-stick looks good too. I'd give that a try. It would allow for some more DI flexibility.

 

[booshk]

i actually have opposite ur problem sometimes i press A too fast a f-air doesn't even come out
but thats like 5% of the time the other 95% i get double fair =]

 

[Tichinde925]

Its rather easy.

Its best to practice Falco's SHL, then double fairs come in no problem

That way, you get to practice with 2 characters at once =P

 

[DuKe™]

ive always used put my index finger on z and i slide the "x" button down and mash the "z"
is there an easier way to fast fall though because sometime i screw up

 

[Nick Nasty]

I practiced by placing my thumb on top of both the y and a buttons then quickly did a sliding motion to get the rising fair then pressing a again after the first fair was finished. look closely at Marth when performing a rising fair and u wil be able to feel/see the tempo of the next one.

 

[channlsrfr]

A couple of things:

1. Double Fair

I don't think this is as good as using the Z button and/or C stick, but anyway... When I do it, I have the tip of my thumb on the X button, and the knuckle part on the A button. That way, you don't have to move anything; it's just pressing down with different parts of your thumb.

2. Samus double missile

I press up on the analog stick to jump. If I use X or Y to jump, I can never get my thumb to the B button fast enough afterwards.

 

[purekorea]

I konw this is kinda off topic but is the double sh fair a necessity?

I do it by sliding my thumb from Y to A but can only do against comps.

 

[krazed]

I use the Y>A method I first learned >_>. I don't really find 2x fairs that useful though.. I probably only used it a few times a match.

 

[wuthefwasthat]

sh 2fair is really useful... what are u guys saying.. lol

and someone ^ there, u dont fastfall for this

 

[mog87]

its easy to do with A you just have to memorize the rhythm of it, the same for the uair.

 

[Tichinde925]

2 SH Fair = makes way to Ken Combo!!!

 

[Shai Hulud]

One word:

Claw.

 

[Chunkyturd007]

yeah I just use Z when doing a double fair. It prevents a lot of hand movements so it should be easier on you. Unless you accidentally do a JC'd grab instead -_- if you do just find the right timing

Thats what i would always do. Dont worry, getting the timing with the A button isn't that hard but it could take a while like it did for me.

 

[nauqneyugn]

If you use z, just make sure you're off the jump button when you press z. That should solve all the JC grab problems - at least for me.

 

[DuKe™]

I started just sliding my thumb from x to a and quickly do a twice i find this way much better than anything else now

 

[FrostByte]

I keep the tip of my thumb on the Y button while the centre of my thumb stays on A. I get a wriggling kinda motion.

Double F-airs to F-air spike works like a charm against most floaties (Namely Samus and pal dittos).

 

[meleemarth]

I SH with up on the control stick and double fair with the c-stick >.>

 

[Shai Hulud]

Hmm. I realized most of you may not know what clawing is. I'm used to talking to Halo players.

Use your index finger to press X/Y to jump. It's pretty easy to do the SH double FAIR this way, although it may take a little while before the grip doesn't feel awkward. Press the right trigger with your middle finger, and the Z button with your middle finger. Wavedashing is a little trickier this way but I'm close to getting it back to my former level, and my aerials are much more precise.

 

[Scar]

I wish I could find better applications for the 2x fair... use it a lot but rarely get much utility out of it.

So Shai, you play as everyone with your hands in that position?

 

[Selphious]

I jump with X (I don't slide my thumb off for this, just tap quickly) and attack with A (I wail on it) so I have as much DI control possible, but the C-Stick allows just as much, I'm just not very good with the C-Stick

 

[Shai Hulud]

I wish I could find better applications for the 2x fair... use it a lot but rarely get much utility out of it.

So Shai, you play as everyone with your hands in that position?

Yep. You can do nifty things clawing. For instance, if you play Falco it's 100x easier to double or triple shine on the ground. SH double lasers with Fox. Ledge-hopped UAIRs with C Falcon, without having to double jump to regrab the ledge. Ledge-hopped reverse neutral Bs with Marth. I find pretty much everything is easier and more precise.

When you use the A-button for aerials you can't DI immediately but you can pop out the appropriate aerial immediately (though it's more difficult for things like SHFFLed UAIRs). If you use the C-stick you can DI *while* the aerial is coming out, but it takes time to move your thumb from the jump button down to the C-stick, so you lose precious frames. If you claw you get the best of both worlds. Immediate and precise aerial control.

 

[Scar]

haha Take a class in marketing, assuming you haven't already.

 

[Shai Hulud]

^^^^
I don't get it =\

 

[Scar]

haha I'm just saying you advertised the claw like it was your job. I'm pretty much sold on it.

So perhaps you should pursue a career in marketing and advertising -- imho you've got a knack for it.

 

[mark.]

i do it with a joystick and the a button- think of it as mvc2.

so, here it should go-- quartercircle (hadokuen movement=running shorthop) then center to fair, you have to do it fast, like double missle canceling, and then you can fit in another fair before you land.

you can do this with bair->fair shorthop too. lols its works!

 

[AverageScalp]

I'm one of the few Joystick-> A -A people; but that's only because I never use the jump button; at all.

To pull it off I just barely push the control-stick upwards and then immediately forward with a very slight downward angle to cancel the full jump. Pressing A to the rhythm does the rest. For me, it is quite honestly a matter of muscle memory.

 

[TheCatPhysician]

Hmm. I realized most of you may not know what clawing is. I'm used to talking to Halo players.

Use your index finger to press X/Y to jump. It's pretty easy to do the SH double FAIR this way, although it may take a little while before the grip doesn't feel awkward. Press the right trigger with your middle finger, and the Z button with your middle finger. Wavedashing is a little trickier this way but I'm close to getting it back to my former level, and my aerials are much more precise.

I wanted to try switching over to this control style a month ago but even after literally a whole hour of practicing with my hands this way I couldn't get comfortable at all. I've played the regular way too long, so I gave up for now. But maybe I'll try switching again. The main uses I saw in it were that you can use the c-stick or A button with your thumb independently of what you're using to jump - which would be your index finger. Of course the only other way to do this is to jump with the control stick which obviously limits your movement a lot.

The actual moves I saw this useful for were double-shining with the space animals, better control of upairs in general (for me it seems there are situations where you need to full hop and upair right as you are jumping, which isn't possible with the regular way of jumping for fast jumpers like Fox because you would have to take your finger off of X or Y too fast, so you would just short hop) and retreating SHDFairs facing right with Marth. Why facing right? Because it's hard to move your thumb from X to right on the C-stick so fast. I can do it, but not fully consistantly and it's uncomfortable.

I'm wondering exactly how you short hop with your index finger like this. Do you put the tip of your finger at the right side of Y and slide it off? One thing that I had a whole lot of trouble with was SHDL with Fox with this control style because for some reason my hand just wont do what you need to do for this: press Y with the side of your index finger, sliding it off to short hop, and then almost at the same time press B with your thumb. I don't know, it's just really weird. It's like to short hop with my index finger, I need to kind of shift my grip on the controller so that I can't press down with my thumb for some reason...maybe I'm just weird, heh. But try it and see if you see what I'm talking about.

 

[Shai Hulud]

I wanted to try switching over to this control style a month ago but even after literally a whole hour of practicing with my hands this way I couldn't get comfortable at all. I've played the regular way too long, so I gave up for now. But maybe I'll try switching again. The main uses I saw in it were that you can use the c-stick or A button with your thumb independently of what you're using to jump - which would be your index finger. Of course the only other way to do this is to jump with the control stick which obviously limits your movement a lot.

An hour isn't nearly long enough. I started clawing for Halo and it took me a couple weeks of regular play before I was back to form and could see the benefits. For Smash it didn't take me as long because I was already used to "awkward" grips. Honestly a regular grip feels awkward now.

The actual moves I saw this useful for were double-shining with the space animals, better control of upairs in general (for me it seems there are situations where you need to full hop and upair right as you are jumping, which isn't possible with the regular way of jumping for fast jumpers like Fox because you would have to take your finger off of X or Y too fast, so you would just short hop) and retreating SHDFairs facing right with Marth. Why facing right? Because it's hard to move your thumb from X to right on the C-stick so fast. I can do it, but not fully consistantly and it's uncomfortable.

In general you can pull out your aerials on the first frame possible this way. One problem I'm encountering lately though is that my timing is so fast that I sometimes JC an up-smash.

I'm wondering exactly how you short hop with your index finger like this. Do you put the tip of your finger at the right side of Y and slide it off? One thing that I had a whole lot of trouble with was SHDL with Fox with this control style because for some reason my hand just wont do what you need to do for this: press Y with the side of your index finger, sliding it off to short hop, and then almost at the same time press B with your thumb. I don't know, it's just really weird. It's like to short hop with my index finger, I need to kind of shift my grip on the controller so that I can't press down with my thumb for some reason...maybe I'm just weird, heh. But try it and see if you see what I'm talking about.

I press the Y-button with the side of my index, just right of the fingernail. It actually hurt for a while playing too long from intensive wavedashing and whatnot, but now it's callused. You don't need to slide your finger off, though. Just tap the button but very lightly. You'll get used to it eventually. You could also try using X for jump, pressing it with the middle digit or knuckle of your index finger. I actually do this sometimes for things like double-shining or SHDL--I find it easier to get the timing right.

When I started clawing in Smash the transition was easy for the most part. Short-hopping and wavedashing (I use R to wavedash) were more difficult for a while, but I feel I have an advantage now because clawing lets me space aerials very precisely, which is extremely important for Marth.

 

[RPK]

What would be the best way to control SH double fair? Cause when Im practicing on computers I find myself really close to them and I want to make it so I just hit them with the tip of the sword. I am getting better by pressing Z and then going to the C stick to control the second swing while I DI with the Control Stick. But is there a better way though? Cause it doesnt always work and it tires out my hand

 

[TheCatPhysician]

An hour isn't nearly long enough. I started clawing for Halo and it took me a couple weeks of regular play before I was back to form and could see the benefits. For Smash it didn't take me as long because I was already used to "awkward" grips. Honestly a regular grip feels awkward now.


In general you can pull out your aerials on the first frame possible this way. One problem I'm encountering lately though is that my timing is so fast that I sometimes JC an up-smash.


I press the Y-button with the side of my index, just right of the fingernail. It actually hurt for a while playing too long from intensive wavedashing and whatnot, but now it's callused. You don't need to slide your finger off, though. Just tap the button but very lightly. You'll get used to it eventually. You could also try using X for jump, pressing it with the middle digit or knuckle of your index finger. I actually do this sometimes for things like double-shining or SHDL--I find it easier to get the timing right.

When I started clawing in Smash the transition was easy for the most part. Short-hopping and wavedashing (I use R to wavedash) were more difficult for a while, but I feel I have an advantage now because clawing lets me space aerials very precisely, which is extremely important for Marth.

Thanks for the tips. So far I can only short hop consistantly with the claw-grip by sliding my finger off the button, but yeah that's not going to work because it makes it hard to do stuff with my thumb at the same time. I guess I'll just keep trying.

Edit:

What would be the best way to control SH double fair? Cause when Im practicing on computers I find myself really close to them and I want to make it so I just hit them with the tip of the sword. I am getting better by pressing Z and then going to the C stick to control the second swing while I DI with the Control Stick. But is there a better way though? Cause it doesnt always work and it tires out my hand

If you are using A or Z for any fairs, then you can't DI as far back while doing it. So to get full control you will have to use the C-stick for both hits. But like I said, it's hard to do this facing right, at least for me. You have to bring your thumb from X down and to the left to the C-stick, then bring it to the right, which is way harder then going to the left, where you can just slam your thumb down and left into the C-stick in one movement. That's why I'm looking into this "claw" business.

 

[RPK]

well I can kind of do one without moving but I do go forward a little bit but not that much so that might be good ^^;;

 

[Scar]

The actual moves I saw this useful for were double-shining with the space animals, better control of upairs in general (for me it seems there are situations where you need to full hop and upair right as you are jumping, which isn't possible with the regular way of jumping for fast jumpers like Fox because you would have to take your finger off of X or Y too fast, so you would just short hop) and retreating SHDFairs facing right with Marth.

If I know what you're talking about, and if you're reluctant to switch to the other style, to full jump uairs it's really easy to just jump by holding the analog up (I know it's tough to hear) and just press A.

Also, fairs when running to the right are also easier IMO without the C-stick just by holding forward and pressing A, but if you need to DI back then you're stuck with the awkward C-stick thumb motion.

 

[TheCatPhysician]

If I know what you're talking about, and if you're reluctant to switch to the other style, to full jump uairs it's really easy to just jump by holding the analog up (I know it's tough to hear) and just press A.

Actually that's what I do right now, and I don't like it because you don't have full control of DI because you have to use the control stick to press up.

Also, fairs when running to the right are also easier IMO without the C-stick just by holding forward and pressing A, but if you need to DI back then you're stuck with the awkward C-stick thumb motion.

Well yeah, obviously it's way easier to just press A. But like you said, you need the C-stick to DI all the way back. Right now I actually manage pretty fine using A for all the first fairs of a SHDFair facing right. I guess there aren't many situations where you need to do retreating SHDFairs all the way back. I mean even with pressing A for the first hit I can still go backwards.

Wait.

Ok, I just went and experimented with SHDFairs because I was curious just how far backwards I can go pressing A on the first hit. Turns out I can already DI all the way backwards! Here's how I do it:

1. Face right
2. Press left and X at pretty much the same time to jump backwards
3. Immediately press right and A
4. Immediately go back to holding left
5. C-stick right for the second fair

So your thumb on the control stick should go: LEFTRIGHTLEFT! Really fast. And then keep holding left until you land. You can try it without the fairs, just press left right left as you jump really fast and you'll see you still travel the same distance backwards.