Q&A Consult Your Navigator - Mega Man Q&A Thread

[p1ay6ack]

does anyone know wat megaman's volcano flames was like before the wii u version came out? i mean, i heard they nerfed it, cuz it used to do 40% dmg, but i need confirmation

 

[Rango the Mercenary]

How do you properly nail someone with Hard Knuckle for a spike? It's very hard to hit with.

No pun intended.

 

[YELLO]

I was facing a really good bowser last day and something really caught my attencion: I got a nice fair on the bowser player and pocreded to edge guard with Bair, the lighting thing showed up; I told to myself <<Well, GG dude>> while returning to the stage The bowser player survived.......Twice. First the Bair and then a Btrow. What I find really odd is that the lighting thing showed up in multiple ocasions and he still managed to survived. I tested with a friend, in training and against one guy in FG but they all died. I know this has something to do with DI but, How do you do it?

it was LAG not DI

 

[ChopperDave]

How do you properly nail someone with Hard Knuckle for a spike? It's very hard to hit with.

No pun intended.

Practice. It's just one of those things you have to use over and over again until you learn the timing and range. Keep in mind that you can make slight course corrections between initiating the move and firing the Hard Knuckle.

 

[YELLO]

Practice. It's just one of those things you have to use over and over again until you learn the timing and range. Keep in mind that you can make slight course corrections between initiating the move and firing the Hard Knuckle.

even when you master the hard knuckle like i have, it is quite easy for anyone to air dodge it due to its high startup lag and obvious animation. If there was no air dodge, I would hit probably 95% of all my hard knuckle spike attempts

 

[ChopperDave]

even when you master the hard knuckle like i have, it is quite easy for anyone to air dodge it due to its high startup lag and obvious animation. If there was no air dodge, I would hit probably 95% of all my hard knuckle spike attempts

I usually only attempt Hard Knuckle in two situations:

1) when I've trapped them with a z-dropped metal blade
2) when they have no choice but to UpB to ledge (i.e. when they've lost their double jump, and if they air dodge their UpB will miss the ledge)

Some people use it on stage as a way to punish whiffed dash attacks/grabs, but I usually just use MM's safer moves for punishes.

 

[MegaManLeo]

How do you approach Diddy and Fox at all?

I'm finding it really difficult to do anything when they just move much faster than me and have so many more options at close range. Its hard to escape pressure too cause Megaman isn't too fast and I end up getting pressured badly. Lemons are my only safe option during the matchup but even then It doesn't feel like its enough.

Any help for these matchups would be great cause these are the only matchups were I feel like I'm at a complete loss on how to fight them

I approach Fox with the Pellets and then I either grab or do an aerial attack and with Diddy I try to bait out the side b so I can cancel it out with the Mega Upper sweetspot and I also space him as much as possible...I rarely lose to Fox and I haven't lost to a Diddy in a very long time.

 

[MegaManLeo]

Usually, the attack in question is spaced well enough for them to avoid the sweetspot on the megabuster, or the attacl just outprioritizes the megabuster sweetspot. :l What ways can Megaman stay safe after jumping back with pellets?

I tend to just follow it up with a Metal Blade or a Flame Sword to keep the opponent away.

 

[Nobie]

As people probably know, Mega Man's back-air can trip on occasion, depending on what parts of the Slash Claw connect. However, because it's so rare, I'm never prepared to capitalize on it when it does happen. Does anyone have any advice on how to react in time to the trip, such as what moves are reliable to follow up with, or perhaps even some safe inputs to buffer?

 

[Crimson Child]

Not sure if this is well known. I've been ledgeguarding with ledgetrump > charge dsmash for some time until I noticed dsmash completely whiffed on some characters. It turns out some characters have no hurtbox above the ledge, so both dtilt and dsmash completely whiffs while they're hanging from the ledge.
After some testing, I found out they only whiff on Palutena, Diddy, Zelda, Greninja and Sonic.

 

[ENKER]

I need clarification on what you mean. Doesn't ledgetrump mean you grab the ledge from someone and thus hang from the ledge yourself? So, this means you grab the ledge and then get up on stage and immediately do a Dsmash?

 

[Crimson Child]

Yeah, steal the ledge and get up immediately. When they regrab the ledge, you get a free dsmash, works really good against certain characters like DK.

 

[Zapp Branniglenn]

And don't forget about this method of ledge trumping! Mega Man has one of the fastest fast falls in the game, making this technique extremely tight to perform. But the result is well worth it on him.

 

[Goombadude3]

Ok so I attended a small little online tournament yesterday and learned something. What in gods name do I do against Luigi. I for the life of me can not figure out this MU. Any advice on that?

 

[YELLO]

Ok so I attended a small little online tournament yesterday and learned something. What in gods name do I do against Luigi. I for the life of me can not figure out this MU. Any advice on that?

lemons

 

[Rush 2112]

I notice that sometimes when my opponent is on the ledge and I charge my Fsmash to the max, it will hit some characters and not others. When they're invincibility frames wear off. Is there any info on that?

 

[Zapp Branniglenn]

I notice that sometimes when my opponent is on the ledge and I charge my Fsmash to the max, it will hit some characters and not others. When they're invincibility frames wear off. Is there any info on that?

Well, charging the move doesn't increase the size of its hitbox if that's what you're asking. As mentioned previously, the characters who are simply not being hit are Palutena, Diddy, Zelda, Greninja and Sonic. This implies that their hurtbox while hanging isn't extending high enough for D smash to reach. Every other character can be hit if they wait to long before acting on the ledge.

 

[Rush 2112]

Well, charging the move doesn't increase the size of its hitbox if that's what you're asking. As mentioned previously, the characters who are simply not being hit are Palutena, Diddy, Zelda, Greninja and Sonic. This implies that their hurtbox while hanging isn't extending high enough for D smash to reach. Every other character can be hit if they wait to long before acting on the ledge.

Oh it doesn't increase the hitbox size? I figured that's why it would clip them on the edge sometimes. Has anyone tried to make pictures that show hitbox size like in Melee? Obviously not obtained in the same way, but now I'm curious as to the actual size on that move's hitbox.

So I guess those times that it did hit, they must have been trying to jump or fall off the ledge at that moment. Because in my attempts to recreate the hit I usually fail. Time to stop trying that one.

 

[Zapp Branniglenn]

@ Rush 2112

My mistake, I thought you were talking about the D smash (Flame Blast), which is what we were discussing previously, but I reread your initial post where you mention the F smash (Mega Buster). Yes, the F smash's hitbox does grow in size when you charge it. But I'm hesitant to say for certain if that will help it hit somebody on the ledge.

For example, Donkey Kong has an extremely high hurtbox where you can hit him with a fsmash as he hangs on the ledge, regardless of whether it is charged. Every other character in my short testing that can't be hit with an f smash (uncharged) also can't be hit by the charged version, leading me to assume that the hitbox will not extend below the stage no matter how much it is charged. So, to answer your question of whether you can use Fsmash to hit people on the ledge, it's a character by character basis, just like D smash. And maybe we ought to dedicate a quick thread to these sorts of moves.[/quote]

 

[Sorichuudo]

EDIT: Nvm my previous post, Zapp already responded about the Fsmash.

But i think the hitbox on Fsmash does increase, i mean the uncharged one looks like a hadouken while the fully charged one looks like a.... bigger hadouken, you get the point XD.

Must be the character having their hurtbox while on the ledge not big enough to hit. DH for instance, i always land the fully charged shot if he stays on the ledge to much.

 

[Gregory2590]

Guy who mains a character's who's franchise is deteriorating in quality here.

Why do Megamans constantly use Metal Blade into a grab on me when it NEVER works? Is there something i'm missing here?

 

[Zapp Branniglenn]

Guy who mains a character's who's franchise is deteriorating in quality here.

At least Sonic gets games. Mega Man is not so lucky.

To answer your question, Mega Man can approach a grounded target with a short hopped metal blade (usually diagonally downward) and land next to their opponent, who is popped up in the air and must land. MM can take advantage of this situation and grab their landing, or go for a sweetspot Up tilt. It's wonky to land and has different results on much of the cast. Some characters are too heavy to be sent airborne and can shield/jab out, and some are too light and can float away. A good mixup, but by no means a guaranteed combo.

That's if you're talking about neutral B. If Mega Man had the blade in his hand like an item, he may have been attempting jump cancelled blades into the ground and flubbed the imputs.

 

[digiholic]

Why do Megamans constantly use Metal Blade into a grab on me when it NEVER works? Is there something i'm missing here?

If the blade hits and they're close enough, it's a combo. It's likely that people are going for it just hoping the blade isn't shielded and not reacting fast enough to stop the dash grab, or they don't know how close they have to be to get it to combo (the timing is more strict against certain characters).

I can't figure out the mechanic that determines if Mega Man does or doesn't grab the ledge after using Rush Coil. Sometimes he'll sweetspot it and other times he won't grab the edge until after the move is complete. Do you have to hold a certain direction to enable or disable sweespotting like with Dedede?

If you're holding up or down, you won't grab the ledge. It's likely you're holding the joystick too long and not grabbing the ledge. Either that or you're on Omega Lylat.

 

[Phill-Bot]

What should Mega Man do against each case of a ledge get-up attempt by the opponent (jumping, normal get up shield, roll)? Is there ways to bait out an option and capitalize on it?

 

[Rush 2112]

What should Mega Man do against each case of a ledge get-up attempt by the opponent (jumping, normal get up shield, roll)? Is there ways to bait out an option and capitalize on it?

I sometimes Dtilt to hit opponents trying to get up(or trying to grab the ledge in the first place). I've had some success with a short hop Bair to hit rolling opponents, or running grab. Most of the time I will spray lemons. Sometimes it will stun them and make them fall below the stage again. Any time they get up and are by the ledge, I send lemons as it can knock them off the stage if it hits. If they roll I'm going to try and sweetspot a lemon to kick them back.

No need to always wait until they try and leave the ledge. Leaf Shield is an option, to try and gimp them. Either stand there with it or throw it from farther back. You can jump and throw Metal Blades at a downward angle. You can grab the ledge after them, force them off, then fast fall into a Bair. Another thing I like to do is time a Dair for when their invincibility frames will wear off. Feels great to spike them right off the ledge.

That's what I've been doing so far.

 

[digiholic]

What should Mega Man do against each case of a ledge get-up attempt by the opponent (jumping, normal get up shield, roll)? Is there ways to bait out an option and capitalize on it?

I like throwing on a Leaf Shield and going for a fast trump. (Run of the edge of the stage, then immediately half-circle the joystick back to the ledge, you'll fast fall and then grab right away.)

If they try a normal climb up, attack, or jump, they'll get hit by the persistent hitbox of the leaves, which should give you enough time to do a getup grab or attack. They can get away from it with a roll, but once they figure that out, it's easy enough to read them and do a jump-up and fire the leaves to catch them at the end of the roll.

 

[Phill-Bot]

I like throwing on a Leaf Shield and going for a fast trump. (Run of the edge of the stage, then immediately half-circle the joystick back to the ledge, you'll fast fall and then grab right away.)

If they try a normal climb up, attack, or jump, they'll get hit by the persistent hitbox of the leaves, which should give you enough time to do a getup grab or attack. They can get away from it with a roll, but once they figure that out, it's easy enough to read them and do a jump-up and fire the leaves to catch them at the end of the roll.

I usually run and grab when they get onto the stage, but my problem is koing with MM. If I read a roll I can turn around and utilt right? Though if I misread, I'm effed, but maybe it's better than if I dsmash cause less start up? I really like the ledge trump to bair idea. Also how reliable is z drop MB>jump>dair off ledge? And lastly, does intercepting with leaf shield around you off stage gimp most characters?

 

[ChopperDave]

I usually run and grab when they get onto the stage, but my problem is koing with MM. If I read a roll I can turn around and utilt right? Though if I misread, I'm effed, but maybe it's better than if I dsmash cause less start up? I really like the ledge trump to bair idea. Also how reliable is z drop MB>jump>dair off ledge? And lastly, does intercepting with leaf shield around you off stage gimp most characters?

Utilt is pretty great. You can jump at someone, and if they use an unsafe move, you can fast fall in front of him and shoryu him to the face. Diagonally thrown MB to utilt is a well known kill setup. You can also use it to kill if you read a dash attack, grab, aerial approach, or roll.

Usmash out of shield is a solid KO threat at around 120% or so.

Pivot fsmash is a nice an usually safe way to punish dash attacks, dash grabs, many aerial approaches, etc. if you're at it's max distance it's generally safe to throw one out.

Grounded uair->uair combo kills at mid percentages, unless they DI perfectly.

And then there is of course bair, dair, and MB drop for offstage kills.

Leaf Shield gimps are handy in some MUs but not most. They're a big threat vs. Falcon, Falco, Ganon, Ness, Yoshi, Diddy, DK, and probably a few others I'm forgetting.

MM isn't really lacking for kill options.

 

[BigLord]

I've been noticing lately that it's really hard for me to throw Metal Blades diagonally. I just can't seem to be able to do it consistently, it usually goes forward.

Am I screwed? Or is my controller (white controller from play asia, bought it for Brawl a few years ago) screwed? Is it an issue with somebody else?

I can recovery diagonally with Pikachu/Greninja/etc just fine, though...

 

[Zapp Branniglenn]

I've been noticing lately that it's really hard for me to throw Metal Blades diagonally. I just can't seem to be able to do it consistently, it usually goes forward.

You only have precious moments to put your control stick in position for a diagonal throw. It's less of a problem with pikachu since you've probably been used to the movement and rhythm since as far back as 64, and Greninja has a lot more wind up before he starts moving. Mega Man has only precious frames.

You'd think that the window for execution is up to before he lets go of the blade, but remember every direction has a different animation. The window has to end before then so that the game can decide which animation will play for your input. If I had to hazard a guess, somewhere around 8 frames is the length of this window, possibly less. It's not easy to be precise when you are airborne, moving left or right.

 

[Rizen]

Hi. I was playing the blue bomber in 1 player and had fun with him. When should I use Fair as opposed to Bair?

 

[Zapp Branniglenn]

Hi. I was playing the blue bomber in 1 player and had fun with him. When should I use Fair as opposed to Bair?

Honestly? I ask myself that a lot. The first answer I did come up with is to use Fair so that my amazing Bair isn't totally staled when I need it.

A real answer involves us comparing Fair and Bair. Fair has obscenely low base knockback, and very modest knockback growth. It's a disjointed move that has a lingering, weak hit, and is meant to keep your opponent close. But, the iasa frame is 39 which is a very long time. Stringing multiple fairs in a single airtime is pretty impractical, because your opponent will have ample time to throw an aerial of their own inbetween your attacks.

As for edgeguarding, both Nair and Bair will simply send them farther away. I mean, Fair has a somewhat better (more horizontal) angle, but Bair can straight up kill. If you're goal is to get them off stage and kill at 30%, I really think Z dropped metal blades, dairs, Nairs and Bairs will all have more favorable results for gimping.

The difference in landing lag between Fair and Bair is one frame (19 and 20), but since Fair has you facing your opponent, you can actually followup. Landing Fair into D tilt can work if they aren't sent off their feet, but if they hold shield, you will be punished, since this is not a guaranteed combo. If they opt for an attack, D tilt has MM low to the ground with a disjointed hitbox, he will beat many attacks.

TL;DR: If they are sent in the air, and miss their tech, you are probably in range to jab lock and best of all, facing them. I think this is Fair's best use, but it's not a common occurrence. Overall, it's a pretty shoddy attack.

 

[digiholic]

Hi. I was playing the blue bomber in 1 player and had fun with him. When should I use Fair as opposed to Bair?

When they're in front of you instead of behind.


Kidding aside, Fair has a huge reach as well as a lot of active frames. If you input it at the top of your jump and immediately fast fall it (think reverse Hadouken input) you can cover a lot of vertical distance. It's a great way to punish moves that you jump out of.

 

[ENKER]

Agreed, FF Fair is awesome against unsuspecting foes. I use it to challenge people who are edge guarding me.

 

[ChopperDave]

They each have different uses.

Bair's 3 strikes give it both advantages and disadvantages. It's great for shield pokes and punishing dodges, when spaced and timed right. The 2nd strike trips, which can be a handy set up, and the 3rd strike delivers the knockback, which is perfect when bair shield pokes. But the downside is that if you don't hit all 3 strikes, you're not going to do as much damage as a fair. I also find that bair has a bit of a blindspot just below the blades. Sometimes when I try to use it against a standing opponent in neutral I end up whiffing because I use it a split second too soon and too high, and that can be punished hard.

Fair is more consistent. You have a nice long hitbox with good range and damage. No tripping effect and not as much killing power as with bair, but the timing is more forgiving and you don't have to worry about that blind spot. Rising fair is a really nice antiair and beats out a lot of aerial approaches, and can be chained into a falling nair, falling bair, and falling uair, making it a solid bread and butter spacing tool for keeping your options open.

Overall I tend to prefer fair in neutral and bair in advantage. Fair is what I use for spacing and poking and punishing rolls, while bair is what I use for shield pressure, gimping, and killing. A rule of thumb I use is that if my opponent is above me, use bair, and if they are below me, use fair.

 

[Phill-Bot]

Why can't I ever follow up after my dthrow at even low percents of the opponent?? Fair is ALWAYS air dodged and so I resorted to using nair, but THAT isn't even fast enough... I can usually time a uair against big characters, which is about it.

 

[ENKER]

Same here. All that's left to do is punish their air dodge!

 

[Rizen]

Thanks for the replies everyone

 

[Rush 2112]

Why can't I ever follow up after my dthrow at even low percents of the opponent?? Fair is ALWAYS air dodged and so I resorted to using nair, but THAT isn't even fast enough... I can usually time a uair against big characters, which is about it.

If they're at low % and they air dodge right away, that leaves them wide open to another grab or a Fsmash. As you start doing that they may decide not to air dodge right away, in which case you can sneak in a Fair.

Also, if I jump in for a Fair and they dodge it, I try to position myself in front of them when they land and I can usually throw out a Nair as I'm landing which can sweet spot and send them flying.

 

[Phill-Bot]

If they're at low % and they air dodge right away, that leaves them wide open to another grab or a Fsmash. As you start doing that they may decide not to air dodge right away, in which case you can sneak in a Fair.

Also, if I jump in for a Fair and they dodge it, I try to position myself in front of them when they land and I can usually throw out a Nair as I'm landing which can sweet spot and send them flying.

What I noticed (at least with the people I played) is when I expect them to air dodge after dthrow, I stay on the ground so I can get them with another grab, but instead they jump away and its too late to land an upair (or at least hard to connect it). I tried short hopping after dthrow too psych them out, but they usually just jump away anyway. I've seen dthrow>fair >upair work, but the timing is tight and I'm not even sure the upair would hit if they dodged the fair.

I'll keep the second thing you said in mind though!