Consensus on Vectoring/DI in latest patch?

[DeaDea]

Hi all,

I was wondering what the final consensus on vectoring/DI after the latest patch was?

I have heard a few things:

1. Vectoring is gone - kapeesh!

2. Vertical vectoring is gone, horizontal vectoring is still in.

3. When getting hit horizontally, you should still try and DI left+up or right+up.

4. When getting hit horizontally, you should just hold left or right.

Does anyone know the answers to any of these questions, and is there any evidence apart from rumours to support these? I believe this is quite an important topic but no one has really given a definitive answer yet with solid evidence.

 

[DeaDea]

Anyone can help answer this or shine some light?

 

[Space thing]

4. When getting hit horizontally, you should just hold left or right.

I can't say exactly how the system is now, but personal testing and experience seems to indicate that this is the best option.

Holding up/up and to the side just seems to make you go higher without reducing your horizontal distance much if at all. DI still seem to be in the game, but it's weird, idk.

Someone who has done more testing/knows more feel free to correct me.

 

[DeaDea]

Yea that's been my feeling as well, but I also want more than just feelings. Solid evidence is what we need!

 

[san.]

All of them are right (3+4 depends on the attack and position), but if you're getting hit on the ground, hold down because you receive less knockback when crouching.

 

[DeaDea]

1 cannot be true for any of the rest are true.

You say 3+4 depends on the attack and position, but if I get hit straight to the left (not going up or down, 0 degrees), do I DI right, or do I DI right + up - which one is more likely to stop me getting knocked out?

Lastly, do you have any evidence to support that or is it just a gut feeling too?

 

[Diabolical]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0mMd8Puyhlk Horizontal Vectoring is definitely in the game. To know which direction to hold in every situation is still uncertain because of this

 

[san.]

1 cannot be true for any of the rest are true.

You say 3+4 depends on the attack and position, but if I get hit straight to the left (not going up or down, 0 degrees), do I DI right, or do I DI right + up - which one is more likely to stop me getting knocked out?

Lastly, do you have any evidence to support that or is it just a gut feeling too?

About 1, what we knew as "vectoring" is so different now that I wouldn't even call it that anymore, hence, I believe it's "removed" and most just call it DI now.

If you're on the ground, hold down. In the air, it depends on your recovery. The difference is only a small %, and characters are better at vertical/horizontal survivability based on their fall speeds and aerial acceleration. I personally tend to hold horizontal+up if I'm hit in the air, because my character's vertical survivability is good, the top corner is an easy spot to recover from, and it's close enough to optimal DI that the alternatives don't matter that much.

 

[DeaDea]

Apparently you have to press down *before* getting hit for it to actually help, which isn't always easy to do.

Someone needs to come out with a video explaining all the details of it with evidence!

 

[Raijinken]

Apparently you have to press down *before* getting hit for it to actually help, which isn't always easy to do.

Someone needs to come out with a video explaining all the details of it with evidence!

Pressing down before getting hit is known as Crouch Canceling, and functions mechanically the same (though to a far lesser extent) as it did in Melee: It reduces the knockback initially received.

For further viewing on Smash4's vectoring/DI system, see: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-YyNv2sar24 and https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0mMd8Puyhlk

There are probably more professionally formatted videos out there, but Ninjalink is a rather reputable player, and this seems to capture the current system. If anyone knows of better videos, though, please feel free to correct me, these were the last ones I saw.

 

[DeaDea]

That video is FULL of fluff which is quite frustrating, so to summarise that video:

• Holding up has an extremely small affect, just enough to get out of marios utilt combo at 0% and some others. That's about its only use.
• Holding left and right is still in and has a noticeable affect.
• Holding down does nothing.

I'm not fully convinced yet as one source isn't enough, but I guess this will do until its tested further. What would be cool is a side-by-side video of the same move being done on the same character but with different directions being held!

 

[LogicallyHank]

That video is FULL of fluff which is quite frustrating, so to summarise that video:

• Holding up has an extremely small affect, just enough to get out of marios utilt combo at 0% and some others. That's about its only use.
• Holding left and right is still in and has a noticeable affect.
• Holding down does nothing.

I'm not fully convinced yet as one source isn't enough, but I guess this will do until its tested further. What would be cool is a side-by-side video of the same move being done on the same character but with different directions being held!

So when should I hold up and when should I hold left (or right) according to that person?

 

[DeaDea]

As I said about holding up:

"Holding up has an extremely small affect, just enough to get out of marios utilt combo at 0% and some others. That's about its only use"

You only use it when you want to get out of combos at low percentages and it has a very minuscule affect.

You hold left/right simply when you want to go left or right - very simple. If you get hit to the left the stage at a high percentage, you obviously want to stop yourself going off the stage so you hold right.

In some cases you may want to hold up + right (diagnol essentially) if you get hit to the left if your character has a poor vertical recovery but good floaty horizontal movement.

 

[LogicallyHank]

Ok! Thanks!

 

[DeaDea]

LogicallyHank hold up a minute! I don't want to be one spreading misinfo:

I just posted this on reddit:
http://www.reddit.com/r/smashbros/comments/2qw6eu/psa_vectoring_was_not_removed_during_the_latest/
and I got the following reply:

"DI is proportional to the sine of the angle. As long as your DI is not at the exact same angle, it will have some effect. The other attack they then tried to test for horizontal vectoring was even further off from an exact horizontal, which is why the effect was stronger there. This is not some "partially removed vectoring", it's just DI. That is how DI works."

I think we should wait for a more experienced player to give us their opinion here

 

[LogicallyHank]

So 90 degrees? This is so confusing...

 

[DeaDea]

Unfortunately I don't know the answer to that question as I have seen some people post that vectoring is in without vertical influence, yet I have seen other people say there is no vectoring and only DI like the past smash games.

I made this thread to help clean up confusion but it seems that hasn't really happened :\

 

[LogicallyHank]

If it's not too much trouble, would you mind updating this thread when you guys do find out conclusively? I don't really follow sm4sh that closely but I would love to know!

 

[DeaDea]

Yea I sure will post anything I find out here, and would like if other people did the same too.

 

[EdreesesPieces]

I'm shocked that this isn't a bigger deal and no agreement has been made yet. I hear so many conflicting opinions. While helpful, I didn't really fully understand Ninja link's video either, because I saw conflicting things even within that video. The only thing I seem to know for sure is that vertical vectoring is minimal. But I still don't know whether I should DI or vector moves that send me diagonal or sideways.

Still nobody knows? I got a lot worse at this game just from the removal of vectoring. I was very good at it relative to my skill in other things about the game, so without it it hurts my game more than it hurts the average player, so I can't rest until I master the best way to survive.

 

[Big O]

I'm shocked that this isn't a bigger deal and no agreement has been made yet. I hear so many conflicting opinions. While helpful, I didn't really fully understand Ninja link's video either, because I saw conflicting things even within that video. The only thing I seem to know for sure is that vertical vectoring is minimal. But I still don't know whether I should DI or vector moves that send me diagonal or sideways.

Still nobody knows?

The biggest problem is that no one really understood or fully explored what vectoring really was until the patch. Basically vectoring itself was extremely misleading. Vectoring was really just a flawed explanation of what was really going on (regular Brawl/Melee DI but with knockback altered based on holding up/down). Essentially holding up increased knockback, holding down decreased knockback, and holding left or right did nothing except DI.

For all moves the launch angle of the attack is influenced by regular Melee/Brawl DI, although perhaps not as strongly as previous games.

For moves that launch horizontally (60 degrees or less?) there is an additional component that alters knockback recieved. For such moves holding up increases knockback and holding down decreases knockback. Holding up will kill you earlier regardless of favorable DI (kb increases more than the angle can compensate). Holding down will kill you later regardless of unfavorable DI (with crouch canceling this is even stronger). The best DI for horizontal moves is usually diagonally up/towards, but for some moves the best DI is down/towards or just towards like Ness Bthrow.

 

[EdreesesPieces]

The biggest problem is that no one really understood or fully explored what vectoring really was until the patch. Basically vectoring itself was extremely misleading. Vectoring was really just a flawed explanation of what was really going on (regular Brawl/Melee DI but with knockback altered based on holding up/down). Essentially holding up increased knockback, holding down decreased knockback, and holding left or right did nothing except DI.

For all moves the launch angle of the attack is influenced by regular Melee/Brawl DI, although perhaps not as strongly as previous games.

For moves that launch horizontally (60 degrees or less?) there is an additional component that alters knockback recieved. For such moves holding up increases knockback and holding down decreases knockback. Holding up will kill you earlier regardless of favorable DI (kb increases more than the angle can compensate). Holding down will kill you later regardless of unfavorable DI (with crouch canceling this is even stronger). The best DI for horizontal moves is usually diagonally up/towards, but for some moves the best DI is down/towards or just towards like Ness Bthrow.

Thanks, this helps quite a bit. It makes sense, considering someitmes my survivability is amazing, becauese I'm holding UP/towards, and other times I die stupid early, and it's probably because I should have been holding down/towards.