Congratulations, Min Min! ARMS character(s) for Smash discussion

[Isaac: Venus Adept]

I'm planning to get Arms one day and from what I've played from the demo I can see the potential for a unique moveset using long range melee attacks and different equippable gloves

I made these for you guys (the springman pose was done by that guy who made the fake leak a while back)

 

[Staarih]

I'm loving that Party Crashes keep me going back to the game over a year after its release. The more I keep on playing, the more I see myself wanting ARMS content in Smash.

It's good to have low expectations not to get disappointed, especially regarding the base roster of Smash because of the project plan shenanigans. But I'm honestly fairly confident in ARMS content in Smash, at least as DLC if not sooner. We all know why: the game has proven to have been a success with as much support as a big in-house IP gets, there shouldn't be any "moral" hurdles as to whether a character fits or not (since it is a fighting game too) and it's what many Switch owners want and some even expect - I feel like the only setback is timing. Smash games do indeed tend to lag a generation "behind" because of how the project plans are decided.

...but I also feel like Smash Switch will be a bit different. There's been numerous instances where Nintendo has stated they want a long lifespan for the Switch, with its games also having longevity to fit with this vision. That, along with Sakurai putting major focus on this game, not thinking about future games, bringing everyone back etc, I feel like support/playability for Smash Switch will continue for a while,, and it'll take longer before we get a new Smash game. This is why they could (and should tbh) focus on what's hot right now as well, instead of waiting for the next Smash to include any of "this generation's" characters, cause it could take a while. It would feel like a lost opportunity if they didn't, imo.

But we'll see, of course I'm a bit biased as an ARMS fan, but it'll be interesting to see how things turn out. I'm obviously hoping and wanting for the best outcome.

 

[meleebrawler]

If there's gonna be an ARMS stage and it's not Spring Stadium, then I think Sky Arena would be the best choice. Having a raised center platform in the middle of a larger one would be a unique layout for Smash (plus you don't even have to stretch too much to add blastzones), and the stage represents ARMS in it's purest form.

 

[Guybrush20X6]

The sales figures are in and ARMS sold 2.01 million copies.

That's only a failure in the eyes of an EA executive who thinks "niche" is philosopher.

 

[True Blue Warrior]

The sales figures are in and ARMS sold 2.01 million copies.

That's only a failure in the eyes of an EA executive who thinks "niche" is philosopher.

ARMS really does have LEGS.

 

[PhilosophicAnimal]

So, I had this idea recently. What if the ARMS character included (whoever it is) has a moveset specifically built around the stretchy arms mechanic, along with interchangeable ARMS, and excludes anything unique to that character? This way, potentially ALL characters could be in as alts, similar to Bowser Jr.

Yes, I know it seems like a travesty not to include any of the individual characters' abilities, especially when they are all so unique. But think about it: the mechanics of ARMS alone is already unique enough to build a character off of. And all the characters could fit into it like a glove, much like they do in their own game. I mean, let's be honest, here: the title of this thread isn't "Spring Man for Smash." Or any specific character. It's for An ARMS character as a concept. if WE have trouble deciding on a solid representative, whether because they're all pretty similar or all have an equal shot, then why would Sakurai think any different?

We have a golden opportunity, here. ARMS could be the first game to have its entire cast in Smash all at once. I can just see Sakurai making a point of that. And much like the Koopalings, we can lament the fact that they don't use any of their unique tricks (and the Koopalings DO have about as many unique abilities per member as ARMS does,) or we can celebrate the fact that every character got in. And for a game where the tagline is "everyone is here!", this would be a perfect fit.

The only problems I can see are that certain heavy characters' builds might not fit with everyone else, and that there are only 8 slots for costumes. One solution is to simply pick the 8 most popular characters (which will generally exclude the heavyweights anyway, sans possibly Mechanica.) Another solution is to create a clone character spot for the heavies, using the same moveset applied to a larger hurtbox and with tweaked stats, which would fix both issues nicely. Either way, it wouldn't be much harder to work around than the Koopalings.

I have a feeling I may get some backlash for this, lol. But honestly, I'd be beyond okay with this setup if it meant I could play as my favorite ARMS characters instead of just Spring Man. And believe me, I'd miss Helix's ability to squash and stretch...but man, it would mean I'd actually get to play him in Smash. And everyone else, too.

To me, that's worth sacrificing what would likely be one unique move.

 

[meleebrawler]

No.

ARMS already gets some flak by surface-level viewers/players claiming the playable characters don't change the gameplay that much, don't enforce that mentality.

Wait for a more specific crossover like ARMS vs. Street Fighter if you want the full roster represented.

 

[Guybrush20X6]

Well the Smash Direct has come and gone and with it some good news

Echos don't have to be Dark Pit levels of similar and new characters can get echos.

So we could get Spring Man/Ribbon Girl double reveal and have both keep their unique traits.

 

[meleebrawler]

Well the Smash Direct has come and gone and with it some good news

Echos don't have to be Dark Pit levels of similar and new characters can get echos.

So we could get Spring Man/Ribbon Girl double reveal and have both keep their unique traits.

There's still no precedent for echos having different physical attributes other than attacks compared to their counterparts. Chrom is probably a midweight fastfaller like Roy.

Everyone is going on about how Dark Samus apparently has a faster roll than Samus just because she doesn't morph, but that sounds like a load of baloney to me. A different animation is all it is.

 

[Guybrush20X6]

There's still no precedent for echos having different physical attributes other than attacks compared to their counterparts. Chrom is probably a midweight fastfaller like Roy.

Everyone is going on about how Dark Samus apparently has a faster roll than Samus just because she doesn't morph, but that sounds like a load of baloney to me. A different animation is all it is.

Well they have the same weight and speed in ARMS as far as I know, with the differences being Spring Man having a rage mechanic that charges his moves faster when low health and deflects punches while dashing whereas Ribbon girl has multiple jumps and a fast fall.

 

[meleebrawler]

Well they have the same weight and speed in ARMS as far as I know, with the differences being Spring Man having a rage mechanic that charges his moves faster when low health and deflects punches while dashing whereas Ribbon girl has multiple jumps and a fast fall.

I'm pretty sure multiple jumps alone count as a different physical attribute. Also isn't Ribbon a bit slower on the ground and faster in the air compared to Spring Man? There's no such thing as weight in ARMS for fighters either, only Coyle falls a bit slower compared to everyone else who are the exact same.

 

[fogbadge]

the larger presence of third party characters has made me a little pessimistic

 

[Guybrush20X6]

Man, how cool would it be, if there's no ARMS stuff at launch, for there to be a trailer that kinda looks like it's teasing ARMS 2 but what looks like a close-up on Ninjara suddenly pulls back to reveal it's Simon's whip instead?

Then they go on to announce the ARMS pack. Two new fighters (Spring Man and Ribbon Girl), a new stage, an assist trophy and a big load of ARMS music

 

[TheZoologist]

Count me in as a supporter for Spring Man and Ribbon Girl! A cool stylized fighting IP like this deserves a place on the Smash roster!

 

[Sean Wheeler]

I had just ordered ARMS today, and it's coming Friday. Now I can see what the game is all about to have even more support on Spring Man and Ribbon Girl coming to Smash Ultimate.

 

[grizby2]

I would see the inclusion as more of a product placement than game content, as if they were saying..
"remember! this is a game you can BUY!"

I felt the same way about corrin (yet ANOTHER FE rep), who was launched in FE fates in june 25th and was then announced like 6 months later for smash DLC. like REALLY NOW?!

im not opposed to an arms character. but id rather see one as DLC instead of being in the base game. it has the potential to have a playable character and can most definitely fit in smash bros easily, but I think it needs more time to see if more people genuinely want a rep from that game in smash.

edit: seems its popular in japan somewhat. it could happen. we'll have to see. :O

 

[Sean Wheeler]

The reveal of the 103 stages and none of them are ARMS based does make me feel unsure about ARMS or any new IP coming, since out of those 103 stages, only Moray Towers and Dracula's Castle come from newly introduced franchises. So, either we get an ARMS rep without a stage, ARMS would be DLC, or we get more than 103? Why did Sakurai have to spoil all the stages for us?

 

[toonito]

i feel like if ARMS 2 comes out and sells 2M+ like the original an ARMS character would be a safe bet for a future Smash title. Assuming DLC for Ultimate will happen again Spring Man may appear there.

 

[fogbadge]

The reveal of the 103 stages and none of them are ARMS based does make me feel unsure about ARMS or any new IP coming, since out of those 103 stages, only Moray Towers and Dracula's Castle come from newly introduced franchises. So, either we get an ARMS rep without a stage, ARMS would be DLC, or we get more than 103? Why did Sakurai have to spoil all the stages for us?

well never actually said that was all the stages he just said thats how many we have now

 

[Sean Wheeler]

But there were a lot of stages that weren't confirmed until people analyzed that screen to find them. And 103? That's a lot. Especially when Omega and Battlefield forms triple the amount. This game already has a lot to squeeze in a 32 GB card with over 73 fighters. How much GB is this game using up so far?

 

[fogbadge]

But there were a lot of stages that weren't confirmed until people analyzed that screen to find them. And 103? That's a lot. Especially when Omega and Battlefield forms triple the amount. This game already has a lot to squeeze in a 32 GB card with over 73 fighters. How much GB is this game using up so far?

a lot i imagine but the point remains, also i believe sue to the final destinations and battlefields are the same underneath it all they may take up less space

 

[Sean Wheeler]

We should really get back on topic. So ARMS doesn't get a stage. Fire Emblem didn't have a stage in Melee. So, it doesn't completely rule out any ARMS representation. Spring Man can still get in with Ribbon Girl as an Echo in a similar manner to how Simon was introduced with an Echo. There can still be an ARMS Assist Trophy. There can still be a collection of Trophies. Or they could just make an ARMS DLC pack since ARMS seem too recent to be part of the base game.

 

[Mastermiine]

I don't know much about arms but I would not mind an Arms rep add me for a support!

 

[Jeanne]

I am in full support of ARMS! This has got to be one of the freshest takes in the fighting game genre in a good while (a nod to dive kick) and you owe it to yourself to play the game if you're thinking about it! Ribbon Girl is my main but I'd be happy to see Spring Man as the representative for the series as Ribbon Girl would make a fine Echo fighter. Here is some fanart I've made in the past to show my support for the series!

Spring Stadium would be a very fun stage! I hope ARMS gets the love it deserves in Ultimate :D

 

[Jovahexeon Joranvexeon]

I'm here to voice my support for Twintelle! Could use a sister, and quite possibly the best of the best from ARMS in Smash!

 

[Koopaul]

Well they have the same weight and speed in ARMS as far as I know, with the differences being Spring Man having a rage mechanic that charges his moves faster when low health and deflects punches while dashing whereas Ribbon girl has multiple jumps and a fast fall.

Weight, yes. Speed, no. Some characters are faster than others. Some characters have larger arms and better reach than others. Some characters can dodge farther while others can dodge faster. Some can dodge in the air the opposite direction they were jumping without messing with momentum. Some can hold onto their attack charge longer. Etc etc etc.

There are so many variables to each fighter that people who haven't played the game seem to neglect.

 

[Staarih]

There are so many variables to each fighter that people who haven't played the game seem to neglect.

None of which necessarily have to be shown in Smash, especially when we’re talking about essentially the ”default boy” and ”default girl” of ARMS. Smash is never 100% true to character, and it’s more like ”hey look at these cool characters from a game called ARMS and they have springy arms”. So I could totally see Ribbon Girl being an Echo to Spring Man. And this is coming from someone with ARMS as one of their most played games on the Switch.

Now, if it was something like Twintelle or Dr. Coyle with strikingly bigger differences, then sure, unique traits would need to be taken into more consideration. But I personally doubt neither would get before Spring Man, and why not add an easy Echo to go along with him.

 

[Jeanne]

Weight, yes. Speed, no. Some characters are faster than others. Some characters have larger arms and better reach than others. Some characters can dodge farther while others can dodge faster. Some can dodge in the air the opposite direction they were jumping without messing with momentum. Some can hold onto their attack charge longer. Etc etc etc.

There are so many variables to each fighter that people who haven't played the game seem to neglect.

If they were simply going for echo's I would say they give Spring man a better dodge with less frames and maybe a further distance while Ribbon Girl has a higher jump and a faster fall speed while keeping most if not all of their move properties the same.

 

[Koopaul]

Oh yeah in terms of Smash all we need to do is give Ribbon girl and extra jump and maye a little floatier. Also Spring Man's charge punch would have a fire element while Ribbon Girl have an electric element. That's all you need for an echo.

I was basically just trying to correct misinformation about ARMS the game. As people still don't seem to realize how different all these characters are in their own game. But in Smash it's fine.

 

[Sean Wheeler]

Finally got my copy of ARMS and I'm having a lot of fun with Ribbon Girl. Sure hope she could join Ultimate. And if 103 isn't the final number of stages, Spring Stadium would be the best stage to use. If the game remains with 103 stages and newcomers don't get new stages, oh well. I can work with a Spring Man vs Ribbon Girl match in the Boxing Ring, Mario Galaxy, Green Hill Zone, Final Destination, whatever I want.

 

[Jeanne]

I just thought of something.. Remember when in the direct, Sakurai mentioned that the distance of Simon's whip with normal attacks is the longest in the game? Could that soft disconfirm an ARMS rep considering they have a really long reach?

 

[Sean Wheeler]

I just thought of something.. Remember when in the direct, Sakurai mentioned that the distance of Simon's whip with normal attacks is the longest in the game? Could that soft disconfirm an ARMS rep considering they have a really long reach?

Maybe the ARMS are nerfed? I mean, an ARMS representative could be top tier if they have an unfair reach. Or Sakurai meant Simon's whip is the longest so far?

 

[Buzzwole]

Yeah, as much as I love ARMS, I really don't think its going to get any representation in Smash unfortunately. It seems like the timing just wasn't right.

If anything, maybe we'll get some DLC.

 

[meleebrawler]

I just thought of something.. Remember when in the direct, Sakurai mentioned that the distance of Simon's whip with normal attacks is the longest in the game? Could that soft disconfirm an ARMS rep considering they have a really long reach?

He said longest average reach of Simon's moveset was the longest. Palutena usmash probably hits higher than Simon's does, and Sakurai is prone to boasting about the range of an fsmash, first with Shulk and then Corrin.

In ARMS, attacks can be reflected by an arm called Clapback, so chances are long-ranged attacks from ARMS fighters in Smash would be considered projectiles, which are exempt from most range "competitions".

None of which necessarily have to be shown in Smash, especially when we’re talking about essentially the ”default boy” and ”default girl” of ARMS. Smash is never 100% true to character, and it’s more like ”hey look at these cool characters from a game called ARMS and they have springy arms”. So I could totally see Ribbon Girl being an Echo to Spring Man. And this is coming from someone with ARMS as one of their most played games on the Switch.

Now, if it was something like Twintelle or Dr. Coyle with strikingly bigger differences, then sure, unique traits would need to be taken into more consideration. But I personally doubt neither would get before Spring Man, and why not add an easy Echo to go along with him.

Spring Man pretty much has an echo in his own game in the form of Springtron. He makes far more sense as one than Ribbon Girl.

Until I see echos actually having different attributes outside of their attacks, even something like an extra jump would disqualify Ribbon Girl from being an echo.

 

[Koopaul]

Dark Samus was confirmed to be floatier than Samus.

 

[meleebrawler]

Dark Samus was confirmed to be floatier than Samus.

No she isn't. Not in fall speed anyway.

They fall at the exact same speed and land at the exact same time.

Sakurai doesn't speak Smash the way we do. He probably only meant she literally floats off the ground. And before anyone says it... no, her roll isn't any faster compared to Samus either. It only LOOKS different.

 

[Staarih]

Until I see echos actually having different attributes outside of their attacks, even something like an extra jump would disqualify Ribbon Girl from being an echo.

Ribbon Girl could not just have an extra jump if she was an Echo of Spring Man, and I feel that would be completely okay, it’s not like Dark Samus is represented in the best way as an Echo of Samus. It’s just an easy way to add them in as most of their qualities still work out.

Springtron would make for a good Echo as well, sure, but I feel like they’d want the ”poster girl” to go along with the poster boy. Though honestly, I’d take as many unique ARMS characters as possible, but seeing how Echoes are handled, I feel like Spring Man + Ribbon Girl Echo is a likely scenario. Happy to be wrong though.

 

[Jeanne]

Spring Man pretty much has an echo in his own game in the form of Springtron. He makes far more sense as one than Ribbon Girl.

I think Springtron would work better as an alternate costume like Bowser Jr. or Olimar. Just change some voice lines and you've got Springtron. His differences to Spring Man are promarily his use of his rage mechanic being activated through charging rather than health and also being able to break active ARMS with said charge. I don't think that has to be represented to get Springtron into the game so I still believe Ribbon Girl would make the better echo. Plus we could get Ribbon Claus as an alt for Ribbon Girl!

 

[meleebrawler]

Ribbon Girl could not just have an extra jump if she was an Echo of Spring Man, and I feel that would be completely okay, it’s not like Dark Samus is represented in the best way as an Echo of Samus. It’s just an easy way to add them in as most of their qualities still work out.

Springtron would make for a good Echo as well, sure, but I feel like they’d want the ”poster girl” to go along with the poster boy. Though honestly, I’d take as many unique ARMS characters as possible, but seeing how Echoes are handled, I feel like Spring Man + Ribbon Girl Echo is a likely scenario. Happy to be wrong though.

I'm pretty sure that's not how the echo design process works. Do you honestly think Daisy was super-highly requested? She's certainly not Ridley or Simon-caliber, but they did it anyway because it made sense before anything else. Dark Samus would "not be represented in the best way" even if she wasn't an echo, because no matter what her actual power and moveset would have to be scaled down for balance. She is a mutant Metroid that uses Phazon-powered versions of Samus's tools, and that is represented just fine as an echo.

I think Springtron would work better as an alternate costume like Bowser Jr. or Olimar. Just change some voice lines and you've got Springtron. His differences to Spring Man are promarily his use of his rage mechanic being activated through charging rather than health and also being able to break active ARMS with said charge. I don't think that has to be represented to get Springtron into the game so I still believe Ribbon Girl would make the better echo. Plus we could get Ribbon Claus as an alt for Ribbon Girl!

View attachment 158470

Wait, now costumes have actual gameplay differences?

Look. She could have a moveset 90% identical to Spring Man. But do you really think Sakurai is going to remove Ribbon Girl's ONE DEFINING FEATURE of multiple jumps just to cut corners? Young Link, Dr. Mario and Pichu have only slight differences in their moveset compared to their originals, but still are not considered echos anyway because they have different attributes. The only thing Chrom disproved is that their movesets have to be 1:1 with their originals.

 

[Guybrush20X6]

To recap
Spring Man's unique features: Deflects punches (projecctiles) on ground dodge, attacks charge faster at quarter health (100%+ maybe?)
Ribbon Girl: Multiple Jumps, Optional Fast Fall

If they are DLC, I think they would be called Echos but they'd use the lesser time pressure (i.e. no deadline to get game carts pressed) to properly balance them.