Confirm please: Frames saved by jump canceling fortress out of shield

[Flayl]

I recorded myself doing fortress asap after the shield drops and then doing a fortress by canceling the jump out of the shield

For the former I got 8 frames, for the latter I got 6 and 7 frames (maybe because my B mashing was mistimed?)

Somebody else test please to see what the true frame count.

For reference, I consider the start of the fortress animation when Bowser's head is on the opposite side.

 

[3GOD]

Shield Drop takes 7 frames, meaning that Bowser is vulnerable for those 7 frames before the Up-B starts.

If you perfectly Jump Cancel Up-B out of shield, you get 0 frames of vulnerability (the shield disappears and Up-B starts on the same frame). I tested this by holding up on the control stick while in the shield, and then pressing Y ---> B at virtually the same time.

Also, I'm almost certain that a good JC Up-B (even with a 1 - 2 frames of vulnerability) will always clank/beat Meta Knight's Mach Tornado, but I need to test it with someone else to make sure.

 

[infomon]

Jump-cancelling the up-B OOS.. that's only necessary if you have tap-jump off, correct? I play with tap-jump off, but haven't really experimented with jump-cancelling to save on those shield-drop frames. It works for both up-B and up-smash, correct?

As for clanking against MK's tornado... be careful, the tornado has different priority mechanics depending on whether or not it's on the ground or in the air. If the tornado's grounded, then overlapping its hitbox with any of your hitboxes (except for some stuff like lasers, etc.) will cause the tornado to come to a near-immediate stop, before either of you get hurt. If the tornado's in the air, you can clank attacks against its hitbox, but it won't stop the tornado, you have to hit MK's hurtbox for that to happen. Just fyi...

 

[itsthebigfoot]

Shield Drop takes 7 frames, meaning that Bowser is vulnerable for those 7 frames before the Up-B starts.

If you perfectly Jump Cancel Up-B out of shield, you get 0 frames of vulnerability (the shield disappears and Up-B starts on the same frame). I tested this by holding up on the control stick while in the shield, and then pressing Y ---> B at virtually the same time.

Also, I'm almost certain that a good JC Up-B (even with a 1 - 2 frames of vulnerability) will always clank/beat Meta Knight's Mach Tornado, but I need to test it with someone else to make sure.

it does, it also beats the turtle, and pretty much every aerial in the game

 

[Flayl]

Jump-cancelling the up-B OOS.. that's only necessary if you have tap-jump off, correct? I play with tap-jump off, but haven't really experimented with jump-cancelling to save on those shield-drop frames. It works for both up-B and up-smash, correct?

First question: It's easier to do with tap-jump ON. But yes, it'd be necessary to use another button (Y and X are too awkward for this, I'd probably remap L) for tap-jump off.

Second question: Correct.

Thanks to 3GOD for testing, although i don't remember having 7 frames of shield drop lag, at least not when I was mashing B to fortress asap.

 

[3GOD]

I recorded myself doing fortress asap after the shield drops and then doing a fortress by canceling the jump out of the shield

For the former I got 8 frames, for the latter I got 6 and 7 frames (maybe because my B mashing was mistimed?)

Somebody else test please to see what the true frame count.

For reference, I consider the start of the fortress animation when Bowser's head is on the opposite side.

Thanks to 3GOD for testing, although i don't remember having 7 frames of shield drop lag, at least not when I was mashing B to fortress asap.

You said in your original post that you got Up-B start-up on frame 8...that would be 7 frames of shield drop lag and the Up-B starting on frame 8. My testing confirms this.

By the way, I believe all characters shield drop is 7 frames (except maybe Yoshi), but I haven't tested them all.

 

[Flayl]

I'm just really confused since I don't remember there being a 8 frame difference between a jump canceled and a non jump canceled fortress.

 

[3GOD]

I'm just really confused since I don't remember there being a 8 frame difference between a jump canceled and a non jump canceled fortress.

Well if both are done perfectly, the difference is 7 frames.

If you're just using Up-B to cancel the shield, the control stick up is probably giving you a few frames from Bowser's jumping animation before the B initiates the attack (depending on how soon you press B after the jump animation starts). But if you time it perfectly, the Jump Canceled Up-B is 7 frames faster than a Shield Drop Up-B.

Also, I will be posting in the next couple of days more complete/accurate frame data than what is currently available for Bowser.

 

[Flayl]

I didn't use control stick to jump. I pressed Y and B at the same time, or close to that.

 

[3GOD]

I didn't use control stick to jump. I pressed Y and B at the same time, or close to that.

When you say close to that...did you use two fingers to press Y and B? If you used your thumb to go from Y to B quickly, you probably got at least 4 frames of jumping animation (this is about as fast as the people with the fastest thumbs can move).