Concerned/worried about Brawl? Look here! (First post updated!)

[Dazza!]

If you have doubts about brawl, you are definetly in the right place. I have looked into the info about brawl and have spotted the things that some people are unsure about, so in no particular order, here goes.

ALL THE INFO ON HERE IS BASED ON OFFICAL QUOTES AND EDUCATED GUESSES, NOTHING ON HERE IS 100% 'IN BRAWL' AS THE DEVELOPMENT TEAM CAN EASILY CHANGE THEIR MINDS'.

The Stages

from the looks of the 2 trailers we have had, the stages look to be fun and simple, just the way we like it!

The new battlefield is shaped like dreamland 64 without the tree (so this will be one of the most seen stages on tourney vids).

Another stage that caught my eye was this yoshi's island stage (baby mario type, not super mario bros 2). This has plenty of space for a fun match, and not enough for noobs to run away. Also, the space below may not be very large, but the space above is probably bigger then final destination (ssbm). It also has a nice timeline of seasons.

The final stage that looks to be fun for advanced play is what looks like a possible new mute city (not sure of landing spots in play just yet, only seen on cutscene so far)... Halberd (meta knight's ship). Imagine mute city on ssbm, with nicer landing places, and no racers when you land, a bigger stage with a platform while you are floating around, and a much cooler looking 'journey'.

As for the inside and outside of the flaming (fire emblem?) castle, looks to be one of the biggest, perhaps not best though

The Advanced Tactics

Yes, this has got to be one of the most talked about (and worried about) topics for brawl. As the game is going to try to appeal to a wider audience, this does not mean totally easier. Although brawl will be easier to pick up, they will try to make the game harder as well, ergo by adding advanced tactics.

'Should I stay or should I go'
Wavedashing/landing in ssbm was a hidden technique at the start, so it's chances of being in brawl are 50/50.
DI ing is safe, and looks very likley to be in brawl.
Short hopping is most likley safe, as is fast falling.
L/R/Z cancelling is not a glitch, and is also in ssb64, so it is very doubtfull that it shall be removed.
This also means that 'the SHFFL' is looking secure to be in brawl.
Wall jumping is very likley to stay in.
Shield grabbing is not a glitch (as far as I know) and may be in brawl.
Dash dancing is not a glitch, and has been in both ssb64 and ssbm, so it looks very probable for brawl.

Second opinion on wavedashing, from ICELANTICMYST on the smash bros. dojo offical forums. ( http://forums.nintendo.com/nintendo/board/message?board.id=smash&message.id=899070 )

"Q:Will Wavedashing be in the game?
A:It's very likely. The air dodge in Melee needed wavedashing so the physics
engine could work correctly, and if they remove it, the game could easily become
very glitchy. So, to answer the question, most likely yes, but it hasn't been seen
or confirmed yet.(If you don't know what wavedashing is, click here."

The new advanced tactcs are hard to spot, with only 2 trailers on at the moment. One I have noticed (and many others) is quicker rolling, crawling, landing into a duck straight away, regular rolling into a crawl, and possibly better/more attacks to do whilst grabbing the opponent (not throwing wise, but hurting them wile still in a grab).

Characters

we know that mario, pikachu, link, kirby, and fox and suited samus are confirmed.

The new charecters confirmed are wario, zamus (zero suit samus), meta knight, snake and pit. And here are some educated guesses on very likley characters to be added (NO ROUMERS OR BIAST OPINION).

Sonic - (Quoted from wikipedia)

" In August 2006, Sakurai and Miyamoto stated that Sega's Sonic the Hedgehog was the most requested third-party character to be included.[26] Around the same period of time, Tips & Tricks reported that Miyamoto has stated Nintendo has actually contacted Sega regarding this, and that they're awaiting a final decision.[27] Then, in the October 2006 issue of Electronic Gaming Monthly, he mentioned that "Sega's hedgehog would be the perfect addition to Brawl's cast." An article in the first issue of a Swedish Nintendo Magazine named "+N" makes a report that the known confirmed characters will be in Brawl, along with Sonic the Hedgehog as a playable character[28], though the magazine's credibility is questioned. Yojiro Ogawa, the director and producer of Sonic and the Secret Rings was asked by the UK's Official Nintendo Magazine about to see Sonic appear in Nintendo's upcoming Super Smash Bros. Brawl and he said: "In my personal opinion, it would be great to have Sonic in it. But that would really involve Sonic and Nintendo's management, it's nothing to do with me!" [29]. Yuji Naka, former head of Sonic Team and the chief of PROPE has said that he wants to see Sonic in the next game. At this point, it is unknown who can give the rights of Sonic. "

Also, if we look at beta versions of the previous games, we can see how characters get delayed; Pit was planned for super smash bros 64, but was replaced by Jigglypuff due to pokemons popularity, Peach and Bowser were also lined up for smash 64 but due to lack of time, set aside. (info taken from wikipedia, not direct quote).

Then we look at melee. The dev team planned on revealing a new character each week before release, and they forced themselves to stick by it, which is why quick-to make clones were put in such as pichu and dr. mario instead of the other lined up characters, Pit, Balloon fighter and a possible mach rider.

So an educated guess of mine is that we may see less pokemon in brawl, more characters from completley different games being thrown in, and on the whole more retro.

As for the other proposed 3rd party character, all we know is that it will be from a game different from all others (i.e no tails or knuckles e.t.c)

The 3rd party character rule

Rule 1. is that they will all have to be unlocked, as shown here in this diagram of snakes box being on the battlefeild stage before he is unlocked..

(THIS MAY MEAN WE CAN FIND OTHER UNLOCKABLE CHARACTERS BY SOMETHING AMISS IN STAGES, KEEP A CLOSE EYE OUT! Cause I won't be able to find em all!)

Rule 2. is that no 3rd partycharacters will be anime or manga, however there has been no confirmation of this rule applying for 1st and 2nd party characters..

Rule 3. is that the characters must of origonated from a video game.

Rule 4. is that the characters MUST have appeared on a nintendo platformer.

Rule 5. is a possible theory that kirby may not harness 3rd party character b moves. (guessed from Sak's unsurness from an email.)

The items of doom.
Some items that have people worried are things like the nintendog and the smash orb. These are both ITEMS and like all items can be specifically turned off if you want an item fight that isn't broken, or completley turned off for pro style fights.

The 'moderated' speed.
This basically means that all charecters will lose some weight (floatier jumps). ground speed and fighting will not change much.
E.G heavyweights or fast fallers will fall like cpt falcon does in melee. All non heavyweights or fast fallers will fall as fast as jigglypuff does in ssbm, but only time of fall, not kill difficulty or air freedom. (Educated guess from seing pikachus full double jump in trailer.)

Will Brawl be online?

Yes, and here's why.

(Taken from 'How this game came to be made' on www.smashbros.com)

"There was a reason Smash Bros. was announced at the meeting.
That was because when it was asked what product Nintendo would want to use to help it unveil its Wi-Fi Network, the first title on the list in both America and Japan was Smash Bros. So it was first decided to talk about Smash Bros. as an example of a Wi-Fi title, resulting in the game being announced before the development structure was finalized."

Will there be ranking systems?

No, Sakurai has stated that there will be no ranking system or ongoing online reputations, however a wins and loses record may be accsesable on the data section of options..

Now, take these into mind and go watch the trailers again with a fresh new perspective, I'm sure you will now be looking forward to brawl doubt-free.

 

[Adi]

I doubt they'll have wavedashing, if you look in the nintendo world movies both metaknight and pit show off some sort of new dodge in which they get behind the attacking player ridiculously fast. Even if wavedashing is left in it will be outdated by this.

 

[Dazza!]

Adi obviously has posted before reading the whole thing, I make those points lol.

 

[h1roshi]

i just wanted to comment on the new quick roll thing...where metakinght just like appears behind pit...or whoever he was fighting...i believe this will be an integral move that wil become very popular since it wont be an advanced move...just a basic move of the game...but with advanced enough application that the advanced players can really take advantage of it...peace

-hiroshi

 

[Sensai]

Ok, I have to dig up an old post of Eternal Phoenix's to prove some things...

/looks around

I'll edit in a second.

[Edit:]

Got it.

1.) Durring the time of the Beta version of development in melee,they also had slow gameplay,and very large freeze frames:

Look at the video labled"Character Parade".

As you can see,the character animations and freeze frames are slow and clunky,as the same in the brawl trailer,and to the contrary,actually looks faster.Brawl is only in Beta format,and everything in the trailer isn't complete yet,so we would have to wait.

And as a side note,the games speed really isn't that fast when played on standard level,only in competative play the game becomes faster because of techniques such as FF,WD and SHFFL.

2.) Watch the video i provided,and you can see that extreme freeze frames are present.Chances are that the freeze frames will be eliminated during the final development phase.

3.)That is only a meer assumption,even though probable.

So let's wait before we jump the gun..

And also,if the WD was removed,i really wouldn't care(Coming from someone who plays with Fox,Mario,and Marth).The only reason people fear its removal is because the move has become so integrated with the game to the point in which that one thinks that their technical skill can't compensate.The WD may be important,but don't forget that WD isn't the peak of technical skill.

 

[Ronin686]

Hey good post, you bring up some good points. I personally am not concerned about brawl, and even if wavedashing isn't in it, people will probably find new exploits.

I went back and watched the trailers again, and I don't know if anyone has said this, but in the second trailer, right at the beginning, you see Mario use his fair on Pikachu, and it acts like Doc's fair instead of being a meteor smash.

 

[freddybones]

I went back and watched the trailers again, and I don't know if anyone has said this, but in the second trailer, right at the beginning, you see Mario use his fair on Pikachu, and it acts like Doc's fair instead of being a meteor smash.

true but he hits two people. one is sent flying and the other is spiked down.

 

[Adi]

Adi obviously has posted before reading the whole thing, I make those points lol.

lol yeah I did <<. was just about to go out so I figured I'd post even though I was only halfway through reading =P

 

[Dylan_Tnga]

The Advanced Tactics


'Should I stay or should I go'
Wavedashing/landing in ssbm is a glitch, and unless the dev team choose to keep it in, kiss it goodbye.

Your post is very very nice. Too bad you chose to be ignorant about WDing. It was not a glitch, the game developers knew it was there and labeled it ''super dash technique'' in debug mode. They considered it too hard for most gamers to pull off so they didnt mention it when Melee came out. They left it in there and figured someone might discover it.

If they had thought it was a glitch, they could have easily taken it out.

So with that said you're wrong on that one point, but your post is excellent.

I doubt they'll have wavedashing, if you look in the nintendo world movies both metaknight and pit show off some sort of new dodge in which they get behind the attacking player ridiculously fast. Even if wavedashing is left in it will be outdated by this.

Meh looks like a roll to me. And rolls unless used situationally to get behind the person as per the trailer, suck. Maybe its a faster roll but its a roll none the less and can be punished easily if you spam it just like in melee thats my guess anyway. In classic smash FOX could roll around to his hearts content and rarely get hit, I hope that brawl isnt like that, I quite liked the fact that if you roll backwards in a fight vs captain falcon in melee and he sees you doing it, you get a shffled knee to the face. Teaches nubs not to roll all the time.

 

[Pit 42]

Thank you for posting that. Everything you said seems to be quite accurate.

 

[Dylan_Tnga]

Thank you for posting that. Everything you said seems to be quite accurate.

How could it be accurate? Nothing he says is accurate until its confirmed, his post is speculation. It's some of the best speculation I've seen so far, but its still just that.

And he was way off about wavedashing.

 

[Dazza!]

Your post is very very nice. Too bad you chose to be ignorant about WDing. It was not a glitch, the game developers knew it was there and labeled it ''super dash technique'' in debug mode. They considered it too hard for most gamers to pull off so they didnt mention it when Melee came out. They left it in there and figured someone might discover it.

If they had thought it was a glitch, they could have easily taken it out.

Okay I changed it, satisfied?

 

[Dylan_Tnga]

Okay I changed it, satisfied?

Yup, makes more sense that way. It might be in brawl, it might not. I hope it is though

 

[imoneofthem]

At the end of the day, who will Nintendo focus on. Millions of smash noobs or a couple of thousand pro gamers?

I'll leave you to think about that one.

 

[Eternal phoenix Fire]

Ok, I have to dig up an old post of Eternal Phoenix's to prove some things...

/looks around

I'll edit in a second.

[Edit:]

Got it.

Looks like my job was done before i even got here.Lol ; )

 

[Dylan_Tnga]

At the end of the day, who will Nintendo focus on. Millions of smash noobs or a couple of thousand pro gamers?

I'll leave you to think about that one.

Exactly my fears. In melee they achieved a balance of ''fun for nobs'' whilst still making an INCREDIBLY technical fighting game.

One can only hope they do the same, noobs can have fun ******* around with items and bragging about how pro they are with Link to their other noob friends and proclaim proudly that they dont edgehog or shieldgrab since its ''cheap'' and actual players can have another insanely technical game to hold tournaments and gatherings for.

 

[Sensai]

Yep, Eternal. No worries.

Just spreading the good word.

 

[Dazza!]

Brawl will not be nooby as such, just a generally easier feel of the game, and this will make it more enjoyable when you do advanced play too.

Be a corperate sell out like good ol' dazza, you won't go wrong in this case

 

[tstumo]

the thing that pit does looks like a roll to me. only thing, Pit doesnt roll. WD and any advanced techniques im not sure if they are going to return. if they keep the physics and everything the same then yeah it will be there but if they start from scratch and change the gameplay. which they dont need to then people will just have to find something else. i tried learning all that stuff. some of it alot helpful than others. but i like to stick to just basic stuff. to me it's more fun that way. if i want to play in a tournament or something than the advance moves would be useful. but to play with my friends for fun i wouldnt use it.

 

[dizzy]

Your post is very very nice. Too bad you chose to be ignorant about WDing. It was not a glitch, the game developers knew it was there and labeled it ''super dash technique'' in debug mode. They considered it too hard for most gamers to pull off so they didnt mention it when Melee came out. They left it in there and figured someone might discover it.

The "super dash technique" is just an urban legend. It's a long-debunked rumor and the result of a really bad game of telephone. If you actually go into the AR debug mode, you'll see that the "super dash technique" is nowhere to be found. The closest thing is "landfallspecial," which is a landing animation used after almost every kind of third jump, including but not limited to up+b moves, several over+b moves, air dodges, and grappling hooks. Landfallspecial was not designed specifically for wavedashing or even air dodging; it just so happens that when you hit the ground during or after an air dodge, your character transitions into the landfallspecial animation.

Based on landfallspecial alone, you cannot say that the developers intentionally coded wavedashing in the game as some sort of hidden advanced technique. Sure, they knew that air dodging into the ground would cause the character to go into landfallspecial. This much was definitely intentional. And if you had asked the developers, they might have known that the air dodge's leftover horizontal momentum would cause the character to slide upon landing.

But do you seriously think developers could possibly have predicted the wavedash's profound effect on the metagame five years after SSBM's release? Do you think they knew that players would figure out how to cancel the jump animation with a diagonal air dodge and learn to achieve the sliding effect at will? Did developers have any idea how drastically it would shift the balance of the game? Certainly not. To say that wavedashing was an intentional feature is to say that the Ice Climbers were designed to have higher ground speed than Sheik.

If you believed that, you would, of course, be believing in a load of crap. But I'm sure you're smarter than that. Word of mouth is a dangerous thing.

EDIT: This is a 1.5 year old thread that talks about landfallspecial and its implications (or lack thereof): http://smashboards.com/showthread.php?t=53863&highlight=landfallspecial

 

[the_air_up_there7]

I hope sonic comes out in brawl, I kinda doubt it though just because I can't picture how he would look like. I would still like for those advance tech to come out, like wavedash. It seems like there will be more aerial combos in brawl.

 

[tstumo]

The "super dash technique" is just an urban legend. It's a long-debunked rumor and the result of a really bad game of telephone. If you actually go into the AR debug mode, you'll see that the "super dash technique" is nowhere to be found. The closest thing is "landfallspecial," which is a landing animation used after almost every kind of third jump, including but not limited to up+b moves, several over+b moves, air dodges, and grappling hooks. Landfallspecial was not designed specifically for wavedashing or even air dodging; it just so happens that when you hit the ground during or after an air dodge, your character transitions into the landfallspecial animation.

Based on landfallspecial alone, you cannot say that the developers intentionally coded wavedashing in the game as some sort of hidden advanced technique. Sure, they knew that air dodging into the ground would cause the character to go into landfallspecial. This much was definitely intentional. And if you had asked the developers, they might have known that the air dodge's leftover horizontal momentum would cause the character to slide upon landing.

But do you seriously think developers could possibly have predicted the wavedash's profound effect on the metagame five years after SSBM's release? Do you think they knew that players would figure out how to cancel the jump animation with a diagonal air dodge and learn to achieve the sliding effect at will? Did developers have any idea how drastically it would shift the balance of the game? Certainly not. To say that wavedashing was an intentional feature is to say that the Ice Climbers were designed to have higher ground speed than Sheik.

If you believed that, you would, of course, be believing in a load of crap. But I'm sure you're smarter than that. Word of mouth is a dangerous thing.

expect alot of WD fans to jump on your case. i understand what your saying though. many people seem to think WD was put in purposely because that's what's been spread around.

 

[Razgriz]

Wow... I've never learned so much from a single thread... and only two pages... I really hope wavedashing transfers into Brawl. It's a great technique that only adds to the game's strategy and serves to farther widen the gap between the novice and the pro, and anything that does that is a good idea.

 

[Dylan_Tnga]

Wow incredible post, you sound like you know your stuff. Well, if they knew about ''landfallspecial'' they knew about wavelanding, its the same thing. So just a different name for the same thing really.

Anyway, no WD in brawl, no me playing brawl. Melee is enough for me anyday of the week over a watered down version so that theres no longer a barrier between noobs and average players.

Im not stupid enough to say wd makes you pro. It doesnt. It only serves to distinguish from people who have no idea how to play the game (Please, dont mention aniki, he's much more skilled than you or I will ever be so he doesnt need the WD it just slows him down) and people who are average at the game. Its all in the implications of the technique.

Please don't flame me for my conservative views, Ill probably play brawl for fun but without wavedashing Im not going to bother competing, Ill just stick with melee tourneys.

I dont like playing smash for fun though. I take the game extremely seriously and enjoy myself at the same time much like people who play competitive hockey as opposed to playing pond hockey. Pond hockey is fun but a truly competitive hockey player would probably enjoy himself more at a big tourney, pressure on and all that.

If anyone jumps on my post, Im reporting you. I get an infraction anytime I dont tell someone to have a nice day, and proceed to tie their shoes and lick them clean, so I can play hardball too.

Razgriz : Good point. I agree.

 

[Adi]

Very very nice post Dizzy, and very informative ;D

 

[dizzy]

I dont like playing smash for fun though. I take the game extremely seriously and enjoy myself at the same time much like people who play competitive hockey as opposed to playing pond hockey. Pond hockey is fun but a truly competitive hockey player would probably enjoy himself more at a big tourney, pressure on and all that.

If anyone jumps on my post, Im reporting you. I get an infraction anytime I dont tell someone to have a nice day, and proceed to tie their shoes and lick them clean, so I can play hardball too.

It's fine that you prefer competitive Melee to casual free-for-alls, just as it's fine if you, say, prefer competitive hockey to pond hockey. But when you start being a douchebag to anyone who plays pond hockey just because they play pond hockey, it becomes a problem.

Here's an example: the other day, I saw that video of you playing the piano on youtube. I know you're a decent pianist. But I can say this much: you're no Martha Argerich. You're not Ray Charles, either, and piano playing is far and away more competitive than SSBM ever will be. I'm going to assume that you probably don't care enough to make an international career as a concert pianist or a jazz musician--or whatever. You don't have the kind of time required to be that dedicated. You choose to spend your hours on other things, like competitive SSBM or maybe school sports and academics, and you take on music as a hobby, not a full-time commitment.

But why the hell should that stop you from playing for your own enjoyment? What, just because you don't aspire to play concertos with world-renowned orchestras or tour the states with your mad improvisational skills or even serve as an accompanist for a band... all of a sudden, your way of playing is unacceptable? I wouldn't say so. It just means you don't take music as seriously as people who have dedicated their lives to it. And if those people tell you otherwise, then you might point out that almost all of them started as amateur musicians before they decided to make it their career and become more competitive.

It shouldn't take a huge leap in logic to apply all of that to SSBM. Competitive players take the game to higher levels, obviously, but it hardly means that casual players are a waste of matter. If they want to play FFAs with items and weird stages for fun, who are you to stop them? Who are you to say their way of playing is illegitimate?

I'm not saying anything new, but your attitude sucks. Of course, if you choose to continue being an elitist douchebag, I can't help you, and neither can anyone else. But your derogatory remarks won't really accomplish anything except make the competitive players think you're a prick... and make the casual players think you're a prick. After all, you've admitted it yourself: you're far from the best player in the world, so you really don't even have the credentials to be as arrogant as you've been.

So basically, humble yourself. Or don't, and the people who actually matter in this community will forever remember you as just another scrub who talks big.

~My sixteen cents.

 

[Razgriz]

Originally Posted by Dylan_Tnga
I dont like playing smash for fun though. I take the game extremely seriously and enjoy myself at the same time much like people who play competitive hockey as opposed to playing pond hockey. Pond hockey is fun but a truly competitive hockey player would probably enjoy himself more at a big tourney, pressure on and all that.

If anyone jumps on my post, Im reporting you. I get an infraction anytime I dont tell someone to have a nice day, and proceed to tie their shoes and lick them clean, so I can play hardball too.

I'm not saying anything new, but your attitude sucks. Of course, if you choose to continue being an elitist douchebag, I can't help you, and neither can anyone else. But your derogatory remarks won't really accomplish anything except make the competitive players think you're a prick... and make the casual players think you're a prick. After all, you've admitted it yourself: you're far from the best player in the world, so you really don't even have the credentials to be as arrogant as you've been.

So basically, humble yourself. Or don't, and the people who actually matter in this community will forever remember you as just another scrub who talks big.

~My sixteen cents.

lol.

 

[dizzy]

Originally Posted by Dylan_Tnga
If anyone jumps on my post, Im reporting you. I get an infraction anytime I dont tell someone to have a nice day, and proceed to tie their shoes and lick them clean, so I can play hardball too.

Oh hush. He gets infractions because he can't express disagreement without resorting to censor bypass or "hahahaha scrub!" every other sentence. I haven't licked any shoes yet and my have-a-wonderful-days are generally sarcastic, yet you don't see mods coming after my throat all the time.

 

[kmokmo]

wow pretty good.. whats the word im looking for... guesses? oh well anyway seems like all the stuff you said is pretty likely

 

[Dylan_Tnga]

Here's an example: the other day, I saw that video of you playing the piano on youtube. I know you're a decent pianist. But I can say this much: you're no Martha Argerich. You're not Ray Charles, either, and piano playing is far and away more competitive than SSBM ever will be.

Who do you think you are? I might not be a prodigy but I have been practicing every single day of my life since I was 6 years old.

Piano may have competitions, but music isn't about competition. I'm a composer myself, so regardless that I'm not Mozart I still create unique pieces that I enjoy, as do others.

I also know my scales, arpeggios, dominants, traids, 4 note chords, solid broken, forwards and backwards up the piano in every key.

Piano playing isn't about whos better than who. There are competitions sure, but where do you get off insulting me?

Not even an insult Im going to take to heart, you kind of just pointed out the obvious. OMG I wasn't born with the natural talent of Ray Charles, I should go quit and die in a corner, despite getting a 92% on my Mcgill University exams.

Weak, man.

Yeah, I read your 2nd face saving paragraph, but it's obvious that you're telling me I'm some sort of ''amateur'' just because Im not a world class pianist. I also happen to play gigs for decent coin with my band. So regardless of your 2nd paragraph, I'm pretty sure your underlying reasons for posting that was to diss me.


Smash is entirely different, its a video game. There are good players, and there are noobs. Some noobs are willing to learn, I have no problem with them. Other noobs shun advanced play solely because they cannot do it and decided to insult the smash community with remarks like ''edgehogging is cheap'' and ''Wavedashing means u have no skill'' They should be told to shut up, and in an ideal smash forum, banned.

After all, you've admitted it yourself: you're far from the best player in the world, so you really don't even have the credentials to be as arrogant as you've been.

Meh, I might not be the best, but I'm far from the worst, and I'm sure I could 4 stock the above mentioned noobs who think ''x'' move is ''cheap'' So I would suppose with the ability to cream them, I can talk down to them, just like someone above me could talk down to me about my lack of speed/precision/ground tech success rate.

 

[petre]

Piano may have competitions, but music isn't about competition...

...Piano playing isn't about whos better than who. There are competitions sure...

...Smash is entirely different, its a video game...

omg you contradict yourself in so many ways...no, smash is not entirely different. smash is, as you said yourself, a GAME. GAMES are meant to have FUN. not start flaming people on about. thats what competitions are for. but you fail to realize that as not all piano is competitions, the same goes for a GAME. seriously, you really need to ditch that attitude of 'this is my opinion and thats all that matters and if you dont have my opinion then you suck', because its really starting to get annoying. music can be a hobby for fun, or it can be a competetive way to increase your skills in that area. smash as well can be a fun hobby, or a competitive way to increase your skills. you have absolutely no right to flame on people that choose to play smash as a hobby for fun. whoever you are, it doesnt matter. and who cares who you could 4-stock, seriously, people that play smash for fun could really care less. of course you could, since you play at a different level than them. it goes in the same sense that if you tried to enter a competition for piano music, most likely you wouldnt win either. simply because you choose not to make it a life commitment competition, so you arent worried about being the best at it in everyones opinions. so seriously, stop turning every thread into a 'flame people who dont go to tournaments' thread, if you want to talk with solely people who play smash competitively and have the same view as you, theres a whole section for tournament goers and such. i dont know for sure but it sounds to me like youre making smash out to more than it is, its a game, and no matter how many tournaments and such there are for it, thats never going to change, and neither is the fact that it was made to provide entertainment.

anyway, ill still play brawl, with or without techs, because its easier to play people online than going to someones place for a fest. ill prolly play both games still though.

 

[Dylan_Tnga]

omg you contradict yourself in so many ways...no, smash is not entirely different. smash is, as you said yourself, a GAME. GAMES are meant to have FUN. not start flaming people on about. thats what competitions are for. but you fail to realize that as not all piano is competitions, the same goes for a GAME. seriously, you really need to ditch that attitude of 'this is my opinion and thats all that matters and if you dont have my opinion then you suck', because its really starting to get annoying. music can be a hobby for fun, or it can be a competetive way to increase your skills in that area.

smash as well can be a fun hobby, or a competitive way to increase your skills. you have absolutely no right to flame on people that choose to play smash as a hobby for fun. whoever you are, it doesnt matter

. and who cares who you could 4-stock, seriously, people that play smash for fun could really care less. of course you could, since you play at a different level than them. it goes in the same sense that if you tried to enter a competition for piano music, most likely you wouldnt win either.

simply because you choose not to make it a life commitment competition, so you arent worried about being the best at it in everyones opinions. so seriously, stop turning every thread into a 'flame people who dont go to tournaments' thread, if you want to talk with solely people who play smash competitively and have the same view as you, theres a whole section for tournament goers and such.

I (capitilize your I's, respect yourself ) dont know for sure but it sounds to me like youre making smash out to more than it is, its a game, and no matter how many tournaments and such there are for it, thats never going to change, and neither is the fact that it was made to provide entertainment.

anyway, ill still play brawl, with or without techs, because its easier to play people online than going to someones place for a fest. ill prolly play both games still though.

Ok. I cant read walls of text. So Im going to read your post now that I've conveniantly made paragraphs out of it at random.

1. I'm a composer for the most part. Good luck having competitions about compositional skills, it's entirely subjective.

2. I don't flame people who play for fun. I flame people who post **** like ''Wavedashing is a glitch so anyone who uses it sucks'' and ''that move is cheap''

3. I kick utter and complete *** at the piano despite not being Ray Charles. You guys are describing me like I'm some 5 year old playing fur-elise.

Keyboards are my LIFE. I play smash, I go to school, I do a lot of things. But I jam with my band every weekend, and I practice piano every day, much moreso than I practice smash. I don't suck at piano, stop implying that I do. If I wanted to enter a piano competitiong, with enough practice time I could almost play virtually any piece aside from insane crazy chopin or liszt.

My piano teacher IS a world class musician, makes me look like and ant, and she herself told me my talents lay in my expression and in the fact that I play better infront of an audience, somehow than I do in my lessons, so I think if I entered a piano competition I might do very well. Might not win, but probably would put on one HELL of a performance.

I have NO problem with people playing smash for fun, and NO problem with noobs who are willing to learn. I have a serious problem with the above mentioned noobs [smashchu] who decided that people who wavedash have no skill, and that people who edgehog, or shieldgrab are ''cheap'' they SHOULD be told to shut up.

Keep it comming boys, and I'll keep on destroying your points.

 

[Razgriz]

Some noobs are willing to learn, I have no problem with them. Other noobs shun advanced play solely because they cannot do it and decided to insult the smash community with remarks like ''edgehogging is cheap'' and ''Wavedashing means u have no skill'' They should be told to shut up, and in an ideal smash forum, banned.

AAAAAAAAAMMMMMMMMMEEEEEEEENNNNNNNNNNNNNN!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

"I'd like to see you play just once without using that stupid shield button."
"Like every kill you get is from edgeguarding, because you can't kill me any other way."
"Shieldgrabbing takes all the skill out of the game."
"Why do you keep turning items off very high? This game is stupid without items."

These comments chip away at my soul.

 

[dizzy]

Who do you think you are? I might not be a prodigy but I have been practicing every single day of my life since I was 6 years old.

Piano may have competitions, but music isn't about competition. I'm a composer myself, so regardless that I'm not Mozart I still create unique pieces that I enjoy, as do others.

I also know my scales, arpeggios, dominants, traids, 4 note chords, solid broken, forwards and backwards up the piano in every key.

Piano playing isn't about whos better than who. There are competitions sure, but where do you get off insulting me?

Not even an insult Im going to take to heart, you kind of just pointed out the obvious. OMG I wasn't born with the natural talent of Ray Charles, I should go quit and die in a corner, despite getting a 92% on my Mcgill University exams.

Weak, man.

Yeah, I read your 2nd face saving paragraph, but it's obvious that you're telling me I'm some sort of ''amateur'' just because Im not a world class pianist. I also happen to play gigs for decent coin with my band. So regardless of your 2nd paragraph, I'm pretty sure your underlying reasons for posting that was to diss me.


Smash is entirely different, its a video game. There are good players, and there are noobs. Some noobs are willing to learn, I have no problem with them. Other noobs shun advanced play solely because they cannot do it and decided to insult the smash community with remarks like ''edgehogging is cheap'' and ''Wavedashing means u have no skill'' They should be told to shut up, and in an ideal smash forum, banned.

It's true that music wasn't initially designed for competition. The main idea is to make a statement, to be creative, to have fun, what have you--whatever you want it to be. But guess what? Smash is a video game. Let me repeat that. It is a game. First and foremost, the point in playing any kind of game to have fun. There are competitions for Smash, but it really is just another form of entertainment, like music; while a multiplayer fighting game like Smash is more competitive than music by nature, it is certainly not designed to create a mile-wide fissure between the competitive community and the casual players. Creating such a rift not only creates an unnecessarily hostile environment on the competitive scene, it also discourages the casuals from wanting to delve deeper into the game! Way to compound the problem. Scare potential new competitors away.

Yes, it's true that you're not a world-class pianist, and yes, I was stating the obvious. I don't pretend to be some musical prodigy either, but I've been studying piano since I was 7; I know enough about music to tell what's what. I was hoping you wouldn't be offended by my analogy, because I was trying to be realistic rather than derogatory. What I'm trying to say is that world-class musicians don't make it a point to act all high and mighty towards people who simply enjoy music as a hobby. If these music enthusiasts eventually become professionals, that's to be encouraged. If they choose to just sit back and appreciate, there's nothing wrong with that, either. If they decide for some reason that delving into music is a complete waste of time under all circumstances... well, I'm sorry to say, but there are stupid people everywhere and cussing them out is not going to make them smarter. If I offended you, my apologies, but that was not my intention.

Anyway, the analogy applies. Just because Smash has more of a winning/losing element doesn't mean that competitive players should scream at casual players every time they do something wrong. If anything, the competitive community should be encouraging the casual players, and telling them that they're all stupid is no way to promote competitive play. And yes, some of them really ARE stupid, I'll give you that much. But if they don't listen to reason, why waste your breath cussing them out? Stupid people have short attention spans. They'll leave on their own.

 

[Dylan_Tnga]

AAAAAAAAAMMMMMMMMMEEEEEEEENNNNNNNNNNNNNN!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

"I'd like to see you play just once without using that stupid shield button."
"Like every kill you get is from edgeguarding, because you can't kill me any other way."
"Shieldgrabbing takes all the skill out of the game."
"Why do you keep turning items off very high? This game is stupid without items."

These comments chip away at my soul.

And those comments naturally deserve to be told off. I wont be doing it anymore since Im close to bansville, but I will still politely point out that a dyslexic dog could 4 stock people of those opinions.

As for newbies trying to learn, Ill help you

As for newbies who just want to play for fun, acknowledge the pro scene for what it is and choose not to participate, thats fine

I realize I've been a bit of a jerk to some people, but believe these new confines that I have set for myself, I will be following them rigorously.

 

[dizzy]

And those comments naturally deserve to be told off. I wont be doing it anymore since Im close to bansville, but I will still politely point out that a dyslexic dog could 4 stock people of those opinions.

As for newbies trying to learn, Ill help you

As for newbies who just want to play for fun, acknowledge the pro scene for what it is and choose not to participate, thats fine

I realize I've been a bit of a jerk to some people, but believe these new confines that I have set for myself, I will be following them rigorously.

Thanks, that's all I really needed to hear.

 

[Dylan_Tnga]

Jesus christ man. That last post you made, I just read it. Your writing style reminds me a lot of my own. And you make some highly decent points.

I take back what I said about you insulting me, I was being a lil bit-ch (lol, censor dodge lol rofl tech)

I guess as a fellow pianist you CERTAINLY have the right to critique my playing, and I was sloppy in that video. I got a 9.5/10 on that piece when I played it at my McGill exam, and for a reason I was much more precise.

That video was just my friend saying ''Oh look a piano I got my camera do something 1337'' And for a one take recording, not too shabby

Seriously though Dizzy you are hands down the most intelligent person I've encountered on these forums so far.

 

[Razgriz]

It is certainly not designed to create a mile-wide fissure between the competitive community and the casual players. Creating such a rift not only creates an unnecessarily hostile environment on the competitive scene, it also discourages the casuals from wanting to delve deeper into the game! Way to compound the problem. Scare potential new competitors away.

No. No. No.

It does not create an "unecessarily hostile" environment, nor does it discourage the casuals. Any good game is one in which a professional is noticeably better than newcomers or those without skill. What keeps you playing a game and enjoying it is getting better. People who once beat you are now inferior, but there are always people who are better. The more clear the rift between different levels of play is, the more obvious the level of skill of the victor, and everybody has a good time. What does create an "unecessarily hostile" environment is when players of different skill levels play matches in which you can't determine who's better because of a game that doesn't measure a person's abilities and provide ways for them to apply them. The wider the gap between the noobs and the pros, the better the game. That's why games like the MMO GuildWars and the game MarioKart DoubleDash piss me off, because the superior player doesn't kick the **** out of everybody else. But in Melee you can four-stock a person consistently if you are good enough. THAT is why this game is magical, and the best video game ever made.

 

[dizzy]

No. No. No.

It does not create an "unecessarily hostile" environment, nor does it discourage the casuals. Any good game is one in which a professional is noticeably better than newcomers or those without skill. What keeps you playing a game and enjoying it is getting better. People who once beat you are now inferior, but there are always people who are better. The more clear the rift between different levels of play is, the more obvious the level of skill of the victor, and everybody has a good time. What does create an "unecessarily hostile" environment is when players of different skill levels play matches in which you can't determine who's better because of a game that doesn't measure a person's abilities and provide ways for them to apply them. The wider the gap between the noobs and the pros, the better the game. That's why games like the MMO GuildWars and the game MarioKart DoubleDash piss me off, because the superior player doesn't kick the **** out of everybody else. But in Melee you can four-stock a person consistently if you are good enough. THAT is why this game is magical, and the best video game ever made.

Yes, in a well-developed game that's designed for competition, skilled players should (and will) be much successful than less skilled players. There SHOULD be a rift in the level of performance between good players and bad ones, but that's not the "rift" I'm talking about. I'm referring to the social rift created by competitive players who think too highly of themselves. Competitive players shouldn't treat casual players with an "I can 4-stock you so you should just give up" attitude; instead, it should be, "I can 4-stock you now, but if you work on this and this, next time maybe you'll only be 3-stocked," and so on.

That's how the metagame develops. If new players are encouraged to discover new strategies and elaborate on old ones, the entire competitive community benefits. But if new players are led to believe that there's a huge, impassible gap between casual and competitive play, the game will quickly grow stagnant.

 

[Dylan_Tnga]

Yup, we seem to agree on something betweenst the three of us now. Newbs (and I would consider myself one compared to many players) who wish to improve should be treated nicely as they potnetially offer competition if they work enough on their game. Pros have no right to be arrogant to these people.

Ignorant newbies who do nothing but scrub out and complain about made up concepts like ''cheap moves'' should be shunned from both the competitive and casual community for their negative attitudes.