Competitive vs Casual Smash 4: The vacuum theory!

[Vkrm]

The problem with melee is it is too fast. You can 3 stock a newb in about 1 min. Brawl is too slow, some newbs get bored. Smash is suppose to be a party game not a true fighting fighting game so the learning curve was never suppose to be high.

I never understood why some people want a tekken level of difficulty from Nintendo game of all things.

Thats what we got from the previous installments, and just so you know, every game is what is based on what kind of elements are in it. I don't want a game that's needlessly complex for no reason. One thing about melee is that the inputs are very simple, only requiring a button and a direction. when used in conjunction with all the mobility it opens up a great deal of strategic depth.

My point is that In order to fully enjoy a game your understanding of the game must be at a certain level or you will get destroyed. That Is what I didn't like about melee... I was the only one that understood it and wanted to play it. (Of the people I knew)

This still isn't a good argument for dumbing down the game.

 

[grizby2]

I don't see why people worry about being too competitive or casual.
people can play fun games competitively just as people can play competitive games for fun.
sure, we may not have the "in a vacuum" experience like last time. but look at it this way....
when the America's were first discovered, the pioneers had their first mindblow with the natives. they settled on the coasts and were aware of the new land, but there was still the entire west to discover. it was then that they would all travel west to discover its mysteries together. and that's what Smash 4 will be like for me. i'll be discovering things along with all of you!

... Hope it does not become a metaknight Fest like brawl.

I think by now that over the 5 years we've had to play the game, we ALL know what the deal with metaknight is. brawl has 38 more characters than just metaknight, so I think we should all stop pretending that that's all brawlers ever choose and if you see a metaknight on online-play, its probably just a , okay?

 

[SmashCentralOfficial]

The truth is, anyone that plays Smash started in a vaccuum. Maybe you didn't play by yourself, maybe you played with your older brothers, maybe you played with a few friends. Maybe you even played at a game club or small tournament community.

Does anyone have any memories about what they thought about the game back then? What was OP, what was cheap, etc? I am sure a lot of you remember some thing or another you thought was the best way to win that now seems silly, like spamming moves(64 kirby fsmash, shiek dash attack, marth fsmash, peach dsmash) that just seemed to be the BEST way to play.

But you could stop there. You could accept the current state of the game in your eyes and enjoy it like that.

If you are on this site, it means you probably had a moment of truth sometime in your Smash life where someone, or something, completely blew your mind about what Smash was. Your years of experience playing the game shattered by someone that simply learned smash in a bigger vacuum than you did.

For years I just played SSB64 with my older brother, and I thought edgeguarding was cheap, Kirby's down-B, etc. Then I started playing Melee, pretty much the same way, until I stumbled across Ken vs. Bombsoldier and that vaccuum burst open.

Smash 4 is coming, and none of us on this site are arguably the target audience.

We can no longer enjoy the game inside a vacuum, because our vacuum has expanded into an online community that wants to tear apart the game piece by piece. We want to compare it to the previous 3 versions of the game, and hold it on the high pedestal of what the original games meant to us in our lives.

There is a large chance that no matter what they put on that game disc we all purchase, we will never have that feeling again.

While I do know what you mean about never being able to "feel" that way again, I think it's still possible. By the time Brawl was released I was an extremely competitive Melee player, and even with the discovery of multiple airdodges and no l-cancelling pre-release I was still the most excited for a game that I've ever been in my whole life. I think it'll be the same for Smash 4. I don't even own a Wii U or a 3DS yet. Heck, I might even buy them around the same time as Smash 4 and just unbox them all on the same day! THE FEELS.

 

[Demna]

The problem with melee is it is too fast. You can 3 stock a newb in about 1 min. Brawl is too slow, some newbs get bored. Smash is suppose to be a party game not a true fighting fighting game so the learning curve was never suppose to be high.

I never understood why some people want a tekken level of difficulty from Nintendo game of all things.

The new game speed looks perfect in between melee and brawl.

My point is that In order to fully enjoy a game your understanding of the game must be at a certain level or you will get destroyed. That Is what I didn't like about melee... I was the only one that understood it and wanted to play it. (Of the people I knew)

It looks like this new game has enough depth players at all levels can enjoy. Like brawl but a faster pace and no tripping so it can become competitive. Hope it does not become a metaknight Fest like brawl.

You're overrating how fast Melee was and how slow Brawl is. You can even 3-stock a newbie in under one minute in brawl. Smash was never stated to be a "party game and not a true fighting game", many people take Smash as a fighting game on the level of Tekken and Mortal Kombat. Even the MvC3 hardcore competitors said that Smash is more complex than MvC3 because one read in Smash can be around 10%-20% only (usually). While one read in MvC3 could cost a whole game. Metaknight is truly strong, but he is overrated. I rarely lose to a good Metaknight when I choose Iceclimbers, been practicing the Metaknight Chaingrabs for tens of hours. My point is that there is always a solution to every character. If you truly have a problem with Metaknight, make sure you search for solutions.

 

[otter]

Even the MvC3 hardcore competitors said that Smash is more complex than MvC3 because one read in Smash can be around 10%-20% only (usually).

Even if that was true, the length of a game doesn't really correlate with it's complexity. If anything, the faster a game is, the more preferred it is by experienced players. Just play 3/5 lol.

 

[Spin3no]

You're overrating how fast Melee was and how slow Brawl is. You can even 3-stock a newbie in under one minute in brawl. Smash was never stated to be a "party game and not a true fighting game", many people take Smash as a fighting game on the level of Tekken and Mortal Kombat. Even the MvC3 hardcore competitors said that Smash is more complex than MvC3 because one read in Smash can be around 10%-20% only (usually). While one read in MvC3 could cost a whole game. Metaknight is truly strong, but he is overrated. I rarely lose to a good Metaknight when I choose Iceclimbers, been practicing the Metaknight Chaingrabs for tens of hours. My point is that there is always a solution to every character. If you truly have a problem with Metaknight, make sure you search for solutions.

I am talking about at the level of difficulty of inputting moves in the game. Smash inputs are easy compared to tekken ect, I didn't mean that there is no depth to smash. You are comparing to ice climbers to metaknight both top tier... I was talking about the balance in the tier list, I would like the game to be balanced enough for a bowser, Zelda, or link to be able to compete against a higher tiers without working so hard. I never said metaknight is unbeatable I am just tired of see him in videos and tournaments ect. This next game looks like it will be the most balanced yet for all levels of play.

 

[Spin3no]

Thats what we got from the previous installments, and just so you know, every game is what is based on what kind of elements are in it. I don't want a game that's needlessly complex for no reason. One thing about melee is that the inputs are very simple, only requiring a button and a direction. when used in conjunction with all the mobility it opens up a great deal of strategic depth.


This still isn't a good argument for dumbing down the game.

It is not an argument, that is my point why are people expecting a tekken street fighter level of difficulty for inputs from a Nintendo game. Casual players are the ones Nintendo is selling to not a hardcore fighting crowed. So the basic movement a skills will never be hard to complete.

 

[Spin3no]

I was expressing my opinion of the state of the game and the communities both casuals and competitive, its state now and the future. Then the target of players Nintendo is looking for. Not really trying to bring an argument on what should happen to the game at a competitive level. I was just saying how balanced the new game looks and how they are willing to change things to make it a better game. I just didn't want to type a novel.

 

[Demna]

I am talking about at the level of difficulty of inputting moves in the game. Smash inputs are easy compared to tekken ect, I didn't mean that there is no depth to smash. You are comparing to ice climbers to metaknight both top tier... I was talking about the balance in the tier list, I would like the game to be balanced enough for a bowser, Zelda, or link to be able to compete against a higher tiers without working so hard. I never said metaknight is unbeatable I am just tired of see him in videos and tournaments ect. This next game looks like it will be the most balanced yet for all levels of play.

It truly is hard to beat a good Metaknight with a Mid tier character. But it is still possible if played correctly. An example could be choosing Donkey Kong or Ganondorf on Delfino Plaza, you could spike Metaknight underwater with D-airs if played correctly. You could always find a way
PS: Try to write all the things you want in one post instead of triple posting, it's much more efficient .

 

[Spin3no]

It truly is hard to beat a good Metaknight with a Mid tier character. But it is still possible if played correctly. An example could be choosing Donkey Kong or Ganondorf on Delfino Plaza, you could spike Metaknight underwater with D-airs if played correctly. You could always find a way
PS: Try to write all the things you want in one post instead of triple posting, it's much more efficient .

Yes haha I should have I was just lazy

 

[Lemonwater]

It truly is hard to beat a good Metaknight with a Mid tier character. But it is still possible if played correctly. An example could be choosing Donkey Kong or Ganondorf on Delfino Plaza, you could spike Metaknight underwater with D-airs if played correctly. You could always find a way
PS: Try to write all the things you want in one post instead of triple posting, it's much more efficient .

And this is precisely why I hope the new Smash has a patch system and that you can choose which patch to apply when you start up the game. If a 'bad' patch comes out wherein the changes are undesirable for you, just apply the previous one. Or even a custom one. After a few years of patching, the game should become balanced enough.

 

[Demna]

And this is precisely why I hope the new Smash has a patch system and that you can choose which patch to apply when you start up the game. If a 'bad' patch comes out wherein the changes are undesirable for you, just apply the previous one. Or even a custom one. After a few years of patching, the game should become balanced enough.

I actually think that "balance" patches are quite bad and might ultimately ruin the game's competitive aspect. Nerfing/buffing a character might change specific aspects that the character contains which might lead the players to re-learn the character in some ways. It's been around five and a half years of Brawl and even top players are still learning their characters, inducing patches might make it more difficult to master your character due to the dynamic aspect that the patches bring. But I do understand why people are advocates of balance patches, they suffer problems with some characters (Ex: Iceclimbers, Snake, and especially Metaknight).