Competing Online Is A Joke

[Smgzor]

This is my first post on smashboards probably, and I've been a member for only a little while but I mainly just read a lot of the great info that's provided on these forums, I generally dont' like message boards because it's just bickering back and forth but... well I'm a very competitive gamer and I was really looking forward to any sort of online competition but I'm afraid that's just not going to happen with me.

I've played against some really amazing players that chaingrab me and do all sorts of weird things, because I dont know what's going to happen to me next, and by the time I know what is about to happen, I can't avoid it half the time because of the lag with 90% of players. My character seemingly glides by the ledge for no reason half the time(i dont know what that's all about) and just falls under the stage. I try to grapple the ledge and do an air dodge and SD. I'm not asking for explanations for all of these things, but these are basic game mechanics that anyone can execute without hesitation.

After maybe 20 games, some on gamebattles, some for fun I can say that I'm positive I won't be competing online unless it's DRASTICALLY improved(wont happen). I personally feel it's great and a luxury to be able to play with friends online and have a fun time but when a serious game comes and I'm getting spammed with arrows(an other projectiles from other characters) by pit and I can't actually adjust to the lag to jump over them in time something is a problem. There's times when I just eat like 5 or 6 arrows/lasers etc in a row because I can't even jump? Sure i can shield whatever but... that's not going to last forever and if I actually you know want to start playing the game I might have to make him move from his corner over there and put some pressure on.

I'm not really that good at smash brothers, and a lot of the people who really beat the hell out of me just combo me to oblivion because they know what buttons to press ahead of time. I definitely appreciate this skill and honor the players capable of excuting some of the stuff they pull off. I can't seem to get a single spot dodge and when I do I practically scream out loud because I really have to know my opponent's trends and catch on quick because i'm going to be pressing that dodge before the attack even starts. If I want to compete with those kind of people I definitely need work but when I can't even move because my input is just too lagged to jump over falco's laser then well... there's no possible way for me to even get better unless I just try to blend in with that horrible noskill playstyle, abusing the fact that we just don't have a strong connection. I wouldn't even mind playing summit every single round if I could actually execute a combo while actually watching where my opponent is moving to.

I'm not really sure what the point of this post is. Projectile spam IS avoidable even with terrible lag but when the opponent sees me coming from a mile away because the game is moving so slow there's not really much deceptiveness/mindgame options available. I doubt anything will be done about the lag, since it's probably a netcode problem, but I think I'll stick to friendly battles, or find someone in the area to play against so I actually know that when I lose it can be attributed to me being bad and obvious.

 

[Orangepeel]

I think the point is that the Nintendo Wi-Fi for Brawl kinda sucks.

 

[votescu]

Nintendo on their own suck with online, i use the same connection with my ps3 as i do with my wii and i always get games working fine on ps3 (puzzlefighter with my neighbor across the block). If i try to play him in brawl, the lag is too horrible to even bother most of the time =\.

I think part of the reason Ike is so popular online is cause its easy to spam strong moves with or without lag (that also applys to the projectile spam too). Dodging, teching, and most ATs are just too hard to do when the lag throws off my timing..

 

[metroid1117]

I don't compete in online tournaments because of this - the lag on Wi-Fi just makes a fair competition impossible. I sympathize with you.

 

[Smythe]

You know, I really don't have much of an issue online. The lag is real and omnipresent, but it's manageable; and sometimes, on rare occasion, minimal.

I bought a third party LAN adapter, DMZ'd my Wii, and find local opponents on smashboards.com/ff. It's obvious when my foe has done the same; as the lag is significantly reduced.

However, the lag experienced on Nintendo's WiFi is, almost certainly, an inherent netcode problem. Nintendo could rectify this with a patch that sat on your Wii's HD, but I doubt that's going to happen. It's ridiculous, really. Years ago I played SSB64 on an N64 emulator online with a USB N64 controller with friends from around the globe and lagged FAR less; and that was on a freeware emulator.

The lag can be pretty OK at times, but then again, it can be unbearable. It's all about finding good low-lag playmates.

 

[Smgzor]

lag can be pretty OK at times, but then again, it can be unbearable. It's all about finding good low-lag playmates.

I agree, and I find most of the players I play from IRC, even on the other side of the country have pretty good connections to me(still, I would say a joke if you wanted to play a serious game for prizes/money). I'm guessing this is mostly because it's already a total pain to get full connectivity. Even with maybe .25 second lagtime on my moves, i'm usually pretty happy and I can at least react to mostly everything without playing guessing games the whole time. I've been playing a lot online still, and I guess I'm far less frustrated now that I've just accepted that this is the way it's going to be and just when i lose whatever and just go again.

I just don't see how this got past QC, or any of the testers it's a complete joke and is far, far below the standard for any game online that wants to be remotely competitive.

If nintendo actually released a patch(won't happen) that would be wonderful, I actually didn't think it would be possible, but if they cared that much it would be great.

 

[RedBaron73]

Ike makes with anyone so one-sided and unbalanced it isn't funny.

 

[UltimaXtreme]

This is my first post on smashboards probably, and I've been a member for only a little while but I mainly just read a lot of the great info that's provided on these forums, I generally dont' like message boards because it's just bickering back and forth but... well I'm a very competitive gamer and I was really looking forward to any sort of online competition but I'm afraid that's just not going to happen with me.

I've played against some really amazing players that chaingrab me and do all sorts of weird things, because I dont know what's going to happen to me next, and by the time I know what is about to happen, I can't avoid it half the time because of the lag with 90% of players. My character seemingly glides by the ledge for no reason half the time(i dont know what that's all about) and just falls under the stage. I try to grapple the ledge and do an air dodge and SD. I'm not asking for explanations for all of these things, but these are basic game mechanics that anyone can execute without hesitation.

After maybe 20 games, some on gamebattles, some for fun I can say that I'm positive I won't be competing online unless it's DRASTICALLY improved(wont happen). I personally feel it's great and a luxury to be able to play with friends online and have a fun time but when a serious game comes and I'm getting spammed with arrows(an other projectiles from other characters) by pit and I can't actually adjust to the lag to jump over them in time something is a problem. There's times when I just eat like 5 or 6 arrows/lasers etc in a row because I can't even jump? Sure i can shield whatever but... that's not going to last forever and if I actually you know want to start playing the game I might have to make him move from his corner over there and put some pressure on.

I'm not really that good at smash brothers, and a lot of the people who really beat the hell out of me just combo me to oblivion because they know what buttons to press ahead of time. I definitely appreciate this skill and honor the players capable of excuting some of the stuff they pull off. I can't seem to get a single spot dodge and when I do I practically scream out loud because I really have to know my opponent's trends and catch on quick because i'm going to be pressing that dodge before the attack even starts. If I want to compete with those kind of people I definitely need work but when I can't even move because my input is just too lagged to jump over falco's laser then well... there's no possible way for me to even get better unless I just try to blend in with that horrible noskill playstyle, abusing the fact that we just don't have a strong connection. I wouldn't even mind playing summit every single round if I could actually execute a combo while actually watching where my opponent is moving to.

I'm not really sure what the point of this post is. Projectile spam IS avoidable even with terrible lag but when the opponent sees me coming from a mile away because the game is moving so slow there's not really much deceptiveness/mindgame options available. I doubt anything will be done about the lag, since it's probably a netcode problem, but I think I'll stick to friendly battles, or find someone in the area to play against so I actually know that when I lose it can be attributed to me being bad and obvious.

lol are you Smgzor from guild wars?


on topic: i didn't buy a wii + brawl + lan adaptor just because it is impossible to play Snake online with the lag. even a ping ~50 will be bad.

 

[Sgt. F-u]

Yes the online sucks right now but it's getting better, for me at least. And I have Crappy, local, and cheap internet connection, and I can still play

Though i cant do team battles, it takes way to long to connect.

 

[PCHU]

Wow, my online rocks about 80% of the time.
Sometimes it starts out slow, but then goes back to normal.
I don't have a problem with it, but one thing bugs me.

I play the suckiest people ever.
I mean, they provide a good challenge, but I wipe out the competition with Lucas.
Ike is also a must.
I haven't met one person who could chain-ANYTHING me.
I wish you could set up a room to where you could play one at a time instead of 3 other people.
And name display would be nice.


And how does the rating change with online?
It doesn't show names or taunts, so it stays T.

 

[Viny]

for me i hat the competitive online because of the lag i got a super connection....and i still lagg but the other player dosent lagg because of my connexion and i lag because of they conexion....kinda su**

 

[NukeA6]

You think you're lag is bad? You haven't seen mine.

It takes around 2 minutes just to seee 3...2...1...GO! And there's a high chance of being disconnected. I have never done an entire online match. I blame this building's crappy Internet! >(

 

[PhillipthaGoober]

I don't play online because it sucks. Its too laggy to play good.

 

[Truethirdeye]

put tin foil under the wii, problem solved.

 

[everlasting yayuhzz]

Insert johns

No johns, plz.

 

[orintemple]

I'm not really sure what the point of this post is.

Me neither.

Sounds like you are just not very good, as you said.

I honestly don't have that much problem. There is a delay that is kind of annoying but you get used to it after a few games. True lag, like spikes and whatnot are not very common. Maybe I am just lucky to have good connection but I haven't noticed it being THAT detrimental. I would prefer to have this WiFi than no WiFi, although it could be better.

 

[S_B]

I have to agree that Nintendo's servers are just plain awful. I connect to other games without issue, but Brawl is always a lagfest.

I typically win all my matches, but I've kinda "adjusted" to the lag.

 

[-Knux-]

Maybe it's just your opponent's connection. I played about 20 matches with someone 1734 miles away from me with very minimal input lag. I enjoyed it very much.

Edit: May I also add that my opponent's connection circle was red/orange.

 

[Livadas]

while there is lag (sometimes) check your connection, because it might just be you, because i play online alot and im not in laggy matches all that much.

 

[Revven]

I have to agree that Nintendo's servers are just plain awful. I connect to other games without issue, but Brawl is always a lagfest.

I typically win all my matches, but I've kinda "adjusted" to the lag.

Nintendo as I recall doesn't have servers (unless I heard wrong). It's all peer to peer, meaning it's your connection OR your opponent's connection.

 

[R.Y.N.O]

The lag does suck when playing against someone far away. But I play against my friend who lives pretty far away and their is little to no lag.

 

[-RefleX-]

online is a joke most agree. i as well bought a direct connection to the internet instead of this sh**y wireless.. seriously spend the extra 15$ like all the other **** consoles and include a internet jack!!!!
I noticed this as well, i just played 5 different people and 3 of which played lucas and spammed firebolt, its not a problem with a good connection because so many characters have reflectrs but when i have to CONSTANTLY spam reflect because i cant do it on reflex with the lag....and thats 50% of lucas moves is firebolt it seems.


its f****ed up as well when i try playing 2 of my buddies in the same city and its just as bad/worse lag then people half a country away.

 

[virtualgamecafe]

my game doesn't lag that much. the game sometimes walks me in another direction, or i cant move at times. the game's online script sometimes teleports you and it gets all glithcy though...

 

[CraneStyle]

Well dude the only advice I could give you is stay away from gamebattles until they get they're map rotation fixed because they make you play the gayest maps in the world and if your not playing against the top 50 players who use real strategy and play for real your gonna end up playing with really bad side-smash spammers who seem to use nothing but Pit and Wolf.

On the lag subject though trust me when I say invest the 25 bucks and get a lan adapter it's no doubt worth it I use it it's like night and day compared to wi-fi but your still gonna get some little lag anyway it's freakin nintendo online not $7 a month Xbox live or dedicated server PC gaming

 

[Smgzor]

Me neither.

Sounds like you are just not very good, as you said.

I honestly don't have that much problem. There is a delay that is kind of annoying but you get used to it after a few games. True lag, like spikes and whatnot are not very common. Maybe I am just lucky to have good connection but I haven't noticed it being THAT detrimental. I would prefer to have this WiFi than no WiFi, although it could be better.

This is what I was afraid of, or what was making me not really want to post in the first place. I could just be really terrible but... it's still pretty frustrating and I find myself in a lot of trouble on maps like battlefield when I can't fluidly drop down through ledges and such(again i may just be bad).

lol are you Smgzor from guild wars?

Yes.

 

[SK919]

I officially gave up on online today. Online is like a whole new game where spammable moves prevail...

Offline I do extremely well(win local small tournies, etc.) but online when the lag effects timing(the most important element of smash brothers) everything goes down hill. The timing that I'm use to COMPLETELY CHANGES every new opponant because of the constantly changing input lag even when they live close to me.I mean yeah I do pretty well but people are already figuring out how to exploit the lag with certain characters.(Characters with projectiles,spammable moves,AAA combos) There's an article about how lag changes the game on wifiwars by overswarm which basicly says noob tactics work,exploit the inability to REALLY REACT. At first I thought it was a weighted vest but in actuality it slowly makes you bad.For example.. offline I could spot dodge on site.. but online you have to spot dodge like 1 second before. Enough smash makes your actions very innate and I don't want to change my habits for online so I'm bad offline(slower).

Online I've almost lost to people I **** in real life because of the insanely exploitable lag. I really hope nintendo fixese this because Online smash was like a dream to me not broken online smash =[

 

[Dragonoise]

Hm, well, the online really doesn't bother me all that much. Very rarely do I get crippling lag, where a 2min match lasts more than 10min. I get disconnected often which is incredibly annoying. But I wasn't expecting much from the WiFi in the first place, so I remain indifferent.

I would prefer if they beefed it up a bit, though.

 

[DragnSlayr]

I get Lag every so often, and I've only had extremely horrible lag once so far (A 2 min match isn't supposed to last 7 minutes XD). But you are right, It does throw off my timing completely most of the time.

 

[SK919]

I'm not talking about the game slowing lag when frames slow down. I'm talking about INPUT LAG!! This is the worse type of lag!! One of the main basics of smash bros is quick timing with perfect shields and spot dodges. This is EXTREMELY detered by input lag. Its impossible to adjust to input lag because it constantly changes. Your button input could be .5 seconds delayed... or 1 second delayed.

Ugh! **** nintendo!!

 

[KiteDXX]

It's very adaptable.

I've played more matches online in Brawl than any other section of the game, and I must say that while it's frustrating for a little while, you'll learn to live with the delay and play on an off-sync battle, if you understand.

I personally found the freeze-frame lag far more unbearable than the input lag. When everything isn't moving at the speed I'm used to playing in, I am seriously disoriented.

 

[SK919]

It's very adaptable.

I've played more matches online in Brawl than any other section of the game,

Thats exactly why. If you play online all the time then you wouldn't really come face to face with the horror of the differences between local and offline play. It's because its like thats your specific version of smash and when you switch to the real version(local) everything is weird again or vice versa.

Like I said before I've gone up agaisnt people who majorly play online locally and own them but when we go online everything changes because of the game breaking input lag.

 

[chronoize]

when i play online i dont play serious at all. if i win i win, but im cherishing it cause of the lag or bad wifi. if i lose then ill be a sore loser and blame it on the lag =P

 

[ShengNu]

ehhh well i think 90% is a bit exagerating.. i barely lag with anyone anymore.. in the beginning it was quite often but now it runs fine.. there is occasional lags i do admit but its weird sometimes like me and a friend will be fighting throughout a match and then just suddenly lag hits us for about 20-30 seconds and goes away again.. its weird at times but i've learned to live with it although offline is more fun.



but i do agree competing online is a joke due to the fact that when you pound on people their excuse is "oh well i lagged" lol total BS correct me if im wrong but.. if your not lagging then the other person shouldnt be correct? so why do people even bother saying "the lags the only reason you won" that really aggravates me x_x anyone else get this?

 

[chronoize]

u're gonna get that in every online game. basically people just make up reasons to make themselves feel better. kinda sad really. when it comes to smash bros, i really cant be competitive unless its offline. When i play online it feels like the watered down version of the actual game, and then i might get use to it, which might affect my offline play. thats just me.
I think competing online can be competitive but i just dont think it will be as competitive as offline.

 

[sonofthesky]

And australia?

 

[zhao_guang]

IMO, online is really fun. I love that I can play my friends and all that without having to organize a day where I go over to their place and brawl. For friendly matches, the input lag isn't gamebreaking, since it means nothing

Playing competitively is a different story. The input lag can easily screw you over. Sure, you can say you have to adjust, but some people can't adjust as easily as others. That's not very fair, since perhaps the ones who can't adjust are better. I've played people way better than me online, and I've won, but what does that proove? That I can adjust to lag? Take into account input lag, and overall lag and all those factors, playing competitively online is just not gonna work. Claiming your better than someone over online is just as ignorant and ridiculous as chucking tomatoes at the cops...........


( what did I just say?)

 

[crownvick]

I know what u mean. Its the wifi connection. Thats why people play all that money for a ps3 and 360 because It has better internet capabilities. I know Nintendo should really Fix that problem

 

[pastaboy]

actually mostly its because u cant have ANY fighting game online without seriou lag issues. USuing wifi dosnt help at all esepcially with weak connections. Wifi isnt for online gaming at all, its more for browsing the itnerwebs. Anywho the reason fighting games online r bad in general is because in fighting games every second counts every millisecond counts, if you have a latency of 50 which means 50 milliseconds of lag, ya in a shooter that doesnt matter much but in a fighting game where it rly counts it can hurt you really bad, especially wen its 2 or 3 seconds of lag.

 

[BoTastic!]

ahh, i'm thankful that brawl even has online. I don't lag much with anyone with orange and yellow connections. Its probably just ur connection. I'm just wise of the oponents i choose.

 

[Endless Nightmares]

I hate the lag, while the matches may be fun it is impossible to play to your full potential. I also don't like it because you usually have to deviate away from normal gameplay and use an alternate strategy online. It's not very good practice for when you have an offline tournament