Coming back to my Metal Queen

[Sukai]

Yesterday, Jan. 22nd, 2009.
I was doing some friendlies with a part time pupil, who wants to learn about the space animals. I've taught him alot with Fox and Falco, despite that Falco is (was) my worst main. His Falco is very good, while his Fox is lackluster. I took notes and planned more advice to give him, but then I noticed that his Falco superseded mine, although not very surprising, it made me come to grips exactly how much I sucked with Falco, despite all the short hop lasers and grabs, I just was never "up to snuff" with him.

So, I told my friend to drop Fox, and focus on Falco.
Incidentally, I decided to drop Falco.

To replace him, Sheik was promoted from "For Fun" to "Main"--with a few modifications.

When I played her For Fun, it was a Sheik/Zelda kinda deal, rack damage with Sheik, kill with Zelda.
Now, I want to run a Strict Sexy Sheik
Zeldas not included.

I may only switch to Zelda in desperate situations, but I find that Sheik can kill fine with her opponent around or near 150%, although with Zelda, I can kill them 30% earlier, I want to try and stick with Sheik.
Sheik was also my main in my Melee days, and I was proud to be one, she was my secret weapon, my trump card, my Metal Queen--if Sheik couldn't get the job done (which she more than likely could), then no one could, so naturally I'm pretty happy that I came back to her.
Due to what little Melee experience that I could apply to Brawl, my Sheik was always above average, but I want to take it higher. I know the basics. Forward Tilt/Up Tilt lock, Up smash to kill, etc, etc.

Any quick tips that will help me in the long run?
Much appreciated.

 

[DarkThundah]

A lot has already been discussed so there is a lot of usufull information on the forums. Glad you promoted your sheik, more serious sheik players will help keep the metagame alive. Hopefully even get her out of bottom mid.

Zelda/Sheik Guide - A Guide to Everything: SinkingHigher
http://www.smashboards.com/showthread.php?t=196906 <**This 1's really usufull.

"Kickin' A** and Takin' Names" :: Sheik Reference Thread: stealthsushi
http://www.smashboards.com/showthread.php?t=178516 <** & this

Sheik Frame Data... WIP: Ankoku
http://www.smashboards.com/showthread.php?t=178230 <** if your obsessive w/frame data

Sticky: Zelda+Sheik Matchup Listing: Ankoku
http://www.smashboards.com/showthread.php?t=174741 <** for matchups

 

[Sukai]

Thanks.
I'll need to practice that Chain Jacket, sounds sexy.

 

[-Mars-]

Don't play Sheik....she sucks.

 

[Voyeur]

Don't play Sheik....she sucks.

he probably means to use the advice I was given and don't ignore the fact Zelda is there. You will need her time to time to fill in Sheik's short comings.
But I want to solely get my Sheik game up to a definite just like you first before I move on.

 

[Zankoku]

The only reason you should ever have to use Zelda if you intend on maining Sheik is if you screwed up the decay on your ftilt and can no longer get a reliable KO setup.

Being able to deal with ****ty matchups is nice too, but come on, there's 34 other characters in the game. The only thing Zelda would help you with is if someone randomly CP'd ICs or Kirby or something on you for round 2, so you weren't able to switch off of Sheik.

 

[Sukai]

The only reason you should ever have to use Zelda if you intend on maining Sheik is if you screwed up the decay on your ftilt and can no longer get a reliable KO setup.

Being able to deal with ****ty matchups is nice too, but come on, there's 34 other characters in the game. The only thing Zelda would help you with is if someone randomly CP'd ICs or Kirby or something on you for round 2, so you weren't able to switch off of Sheik.

Ah, I see what you mean.
I'll see into Zelda...
But I'm still pretty stubborn on the strict Sheik deal.

 

[Blistering Speed]

Don't play Sheik....she sucks.

This.

Being a solo Shiek really isn't difficult anymore if you have a decent tiered secondary. If you're abusing F Tilt the way you should be, Shiek has absoloutely no trouble killing, which was the only strategic reason Shiek/Zelda should have swapped to Zelda. With regards to matchups where solo Zelda is the best option, I can just switch to Falco.

Ah, I see what you mean.
I'll see into Zelda...
But I'm still pretty stubborn on the strict Sheik deal.

His point was you don't need to see into Zelda except for in a couple isolated incidents.

 

[Voyeur]

This.

Being a solo Shiek really isn't difficult anymore if you have a decent tiered secondary. If you're abusing F Tilt the way you should be, Shiek has absoloutely no trouble killing, which was the only strategic reason Shiek/Zelda should have swapped to Zelda. With regards to matchups where solo Zelda is the best option, I can just switch to Falco.



His point was you don't need to see into Zelda except for in a couple isolated incidents.

that's actually exactly who I was thinking of using as my secondary. Do you find going from Sheik to Falco an easy transition then to get both down?

 

[DarkThundah]

that's actually exactly who I was thinking of using as my secondary. Do you find going from Sheik to Falco an easy transition then to get both down?

While I do prefer mid tier characters I like to have a decent secondary ready to go if I need it. Its interesting that you mention falco as a secondary for sheik mainers, since hes my secondary aswell; along w/dedede. I wonder if falco is a common 2nd for sheiks; I'm not sure why that would be though.

Dedede on the other hand I felt immediatly comfortable with, he has two things sheik doesn't, weight and power-hes also reliant on crazy arial DI like sheik. But I do feel he is a good complement to her, especially for those of us who have trouble w/ ftilt lock>usmash w/sheik.

 

[-Mars-]

This.

Being a solo Shiek really isn't difficult anymore if you have a decent tiered secondary. If you're abusing F Tilt the way you should be, Shiek has absoloutely no trouble killing, which was the only strategic reason Shiek/Zelda should have swapped to Zelda. With regards to matchups where solo Zelda is the best option, I can just switch to Falco.

I agree Sheik is actually fine as a stand alone character in most cases and is better than Zelda in this game....I was just being sarcastic.

I still dual main though and I find that it still has its uses....it just isn't as potent as it was once thought to be.

There are several matchups thoguh where I feel that Sheik struggles whereas Zelda doesn't besides the previously mentioned Ice Climber and Kirby matchups.

 

[Blistering Speed]

hes also reliant on crazy arial DI like sheik. But I do feel he is a good complement to her, especially for those of us who have trouble w/ ftilt lock>usmash w/sheik.

How is DDD reliant on crazy aerial DI? He has the slowest air speed in the game. Also, don't worry about having trouble with keeping your F Tilt properly decayed because unless your name is RyokoYaksa, you're not alone.

that's actually exactly who I was thinking of using as my secondary. Do you find going from Sheik to Falco an easy transition then to get both down?

They're not really similar as characters. Both are effectively played camping, but this is Brawl, so that's a pretty universal trait.

I agree Sheik is actually fine as a stand alone character in most cases and is better than Zelda in this game....I was just being sarcastic.

There are several matchups thoguh where I feel that Sheik struggles whereas Zelda doesn't besides the previously mentioned Ice Climber and Kirby matchups.

Don't worry, my sarcasmometer isn't broken, your post spoke the truth lol.

I'm considering picking up G&W just for the IC matchup, considering both Sheik and Falco are at the disadvantage, but G&W ***** them hard and takes about 5 minutes to learn.

 

[demodemo]

sheik can be played solo, but against characters like DDD it is just asking for pain

decayed ftilt to usmash setup is viable, but it is harder to do than it sounds. when your opponent knows it is coming, its next to impossible.

you have to play with a mid percentage opponent (after a tilt lock) who knows that you are trying to ftilt him to usmash. unfortunately, walking up to them and just ftilting won't work.

you literally only have a few more hits on your opponent to get them into an ftilt >usmash before their percentage will be too high. it's not like you can reliably combo them or anything, normally fair > ftilt may work on an unsuspecting opponent, but you should expect them to play really defensively and shield grab you. the defense game in brawl is too good, and to get that last hit in is next to impossible on a suspecting opponent. you will most likely resort to bairs and needles, but by then the percentage will be too high, and all your efforts will be wasted. it doesnt help that the combo can be DI'd out of, unless (according to villi iirc) you hit with sheik's thigh, so good luck with that.

even so, with dacus and her gimping game, she can still kill at reasonably low percents. or even just racking up normally and finishing with bair, dsmash, or something works too, just do it offcenter stage or off stage. 150% isn't hard to get to for sheik, if you consider needlestorm and ftilt lock.

edit- i think every sheik main at some point goes through these "phases"

1. (starting out) wow sheik is great, zelda sucks

2. transform into zelda wow wtf is this dsmash oh wow killing at 110%

3. wow dacus, tipped usmash, bair, gimping, dsmash bawlwawl i want to try out these tactics, zelda can be saved for later

4. gee, transforming into zelda is a hassle, plus not even that necessary

5. i have good judgment and know when i should transform and when i shouldn't regardless of matchup. of course, when a player reaches this point they should become a force to reckon with in tournaments. somebody who transforms for the sake of killing isnt going anywhere. you have to transform to win.

either way, at some point you are going to realize how good playing with zelda is. then you will realize that it is not. but it will be a shame if you just completely shut off zelda because ultimately at the highest level you need both characters.

 

[Tristan_win]

Yeah, Sheik can do stand alone on the majority of the cast. Although she might need Zelda for killing de3 and Snake's if you fail to use your kill moves property. In those match ups you have to be almost Zelda patient. If you try to go for the kill too early and fail you will had to do like 15% before you can attempt to kill again with the same kill move.There are exceptions to this though like for example you could throw and land 8 individual needles or whatever eight attacks and even if they don't do 15% you will now have your killer fresh.

Anyways the key thing I've found about those two match ups is that waiting until above 130% before trying to kill is a good thing unless a gimping or a tipper usmash chance present it's self.

Kirby, and not so much Ice climbers I've been frantically trying to find a answer to for the past couple of weeks now.

Right now I'm checking out Game and Watch as a 2nd and I think he might be the answer. Strong, can string attacks, and is a Kirby and Ice Climber counter.

Not to mention he's **** easy to pick up. I'm a super slow learner when it comes to picking up a new character and after like a dozen or so matches I was already getting the hang of him. You also don't need to remember much as far as numbers go since his moves don't seem to work like that. like there's more ranges of simple set ups will work.

Zss is awesome but trying to memorize everything I would want to remember plus doing the same with sheik is more difficult then I'm willing to do.

 

[demodemo]

Not to mention he's **** easy to pick up. I'm a super slow learner when it comes to picking up a new character and after like a dozen or so matches I was already getting the hang of him. You also don't need to remember much as far as numbers go since his moves don't seem to work like that. like there's more ranges of simple set ups will work.

welcome to brawl. really, i don't want to sound like a brawl basher, but many characters in brawl can be just picked up, played for a couple of games, and you already got most of their game down, especially if you have seen someone else play them.

more advanced things in brawl are limited to tech chasing, reading, and responding.

 

[Flamingo]

Lol? And you play Sheik? ...We have a little tougher time than that my friend SinkingHigher, but welcome nonetheless.

 

[Sukai]

Anyone know how to get by the overly obvious and easily edge-guarded recovery? It seems that whenever I get knocked that perfect distance, I always seem to get perfectly edge-guarded.
I'm try to get used to DIing upwards so I can make for a better on stage recovery rather than aiming for the ledge.

But what is the best path to take?

 

[Voyeur]

Anyone know how to get by the overly obvious and easily edge-guarded recovery? It seems that whenever I get knocked that perfect distance, I always seem to get perfectly edge-guarded.
I'm try to get used to DIing upwards so I can make for a better on stage recovery rather than aiming for the ledge.

But what is the best path to take?

next; try to use the new Q&A thread for this sort of thing, after Lurking some more.

I usually spam some Fairs to give momentum forward back to the stage or you can use Bair after reverse-B then quickly chain tether.
It doesn't hurt to throw your needle quickly at your opponent in their attempt to edge-guard (and are you talking about edge-guard or getting edge-hogged?) don't leave your vanish out as an option to recover either.

 

[DarkThundah]

Wait, by "metal queen" dont you mean Samus? maybe im missing something hmm...

and

How is DDD reliant on crazy aerial DI? He has the slowest air speed in the game.

While not wanting to start a DDD discussion of the Sheik boards, I will say that ddd's arial characteristics are as follows: he is one of the fastest fallers in the game; he has multiple jumps, none of which give him great vertical height gain (esp in comparison to kirby, meta and jiggs). DDD's air game is his biggest strength (bair, fair, great priority, decent arial control), that combined with his higher speed fast falls and his multi jumps equates to a reliance on arial DI.

Maybe it was not the best comparison to sheiks, but it is true that those who have advanced control over sheiks arial DI will find similarities in DDD's, in a way that can't be found in many other characters.

I'm considering picking up G&W just for the IC match up, considering both Sheik and Falco are at the disadvantage, but G&W ***** them hard and takes about 5 minutes to learn.

^ this is very true. hate g&w.