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Collective Conciousness: Match ups: D3 until 10/4

-Ran

Smash Master
Joined
Feb 16, 2008
Messages
3,198
Location
Baton Rouge
Our Match up knowledge sucks. Seriously. We play a character that almost every character board created a match up for in the first month of the game. We've done eight match ups in recent knowledge. Granted, I've stepped away from the Snake board for awhile, but now that I'm back to my first love, I can't help but feel that we aren't accelerating forwards. Many of the boards have done twice as much as we have. Are we so complacent?

We haven't even featured D3 yet, or Marth.

So, speaking of which, let's get it done. There is no reason that we cannot do multiple match up threads, since they often take a month to do. By and large, I agree with all of the information that is found in the 'New and Improved' Snake Match ups. It's just unfortunate that it moves at a snail's pace. This is due to various reasons, but that's not that point. We need progress, and we need it now.

This thread is meant to get quick, effective information into the hands of other Snakes. We shall do weekly segments to catalog the match ups.

So with that said Snake players, our current enemy is:


King DeDeDe

Fact Sheet:

  • D3 is the fourth heaviest character in the game. Snake is the Third heaviest. The difference is only .5%.
  • D3 ranks 22nd in fall speed. Snake ranks 19th. The Lighter the lower the number. The difference is 45%.
  • D3 ranks dead last in horizontal movement. Snake ranks 20th. The difference is 27%.
  • D3 has five jumps.
  • D3 has the third largest hit box in the game.
  • D3 is capable of chain grabbing [Down Throw] Snake the entire length of a level. The only thing that will stop this is if D3 Trips or if they are horrible at it. Di Back + Grenade.
  • D3's side b throws Waddle Dees, Waddle Doos and Gordos at a ratio of 35:10:4.
  • D3 dies to an uptilt at 123% with no Di on Final Destination.

General Strategy: A D3 will attempt to lure Snake into his grubby hands. In order to do this, they will attempt to gain projectile dominance. They will spam their Waddle Dees in an attempt to fool a Snake player into feeling their projectile game is inferior. Once the Snake gets reckless and charges moves forwards, D3 is waiting with a shield grab. From there, D3 will Chain grab the unwitting Snake across the stage, and then set up a ledge guard opportunity. The general goal of a D3 is to make you approach into grab range. More importantly, if they fail to edge guard, the entire process will restart itself, or they will begin to result to brute strength at higher percents.

Stage tendencies: When left alone, a D3 will often remain near the edge of the longest strip of level so that he can chain grab Snake the entire length of the stage. In order to maintain this, D3 will spam his Waddle Dee's.

Defensive tendencies: D3’s live and die by their shield grabbing. Their defense is their massive grab range. They rely on refreshing their shield by doing chain grabs [durations of no danger], so that they can continue to shield grab with little fear. In the air, they’ll often jump+air dodge at the same time when under attack. Vs a Mortar they’ll utilize their Nair to cancel it out.

So then, let’s get cracking. We have one week.
 

Azgner

Smash Apprentice
Joined
May 6, 2008
Messages
131
Location
Brazil
I find that if you space yourself, waddle dees are no big problem(but doos and gordos may be). You can throw cooked grenades at DDD while he is spamming or throw some uncoocked grenades at him(hitting him or stripping the grenades so they stop near him) and force him to move.
His Up B only was super armor when it's rising. So, mortar edgeguard works wonders. If they are careless and the mortar hit them while they are starting to going down, it may kill them.
I have a torney in 5 minutes, Ill write something longer next time.
And I miss the discussion in the previous match up thread, we never even finished lucario...
 

Leh

Smash Ace
Joined
Aug 31, 2008
Messages
529
Location
Nah
A strong grenade game is needed to beat d3. D3's want you to approach with Ftilts. As soon as you get near them, they'll probably put up their shield whether they think your going to attack or not. With that knowledge, you have to mix up running in and grabbing (which is wierd, i mean just straight up running in and grabbing) with timed Ftilts.

Downthrow destroys D3, he moves so low its very easy to react to whichever option he decides to take. If he decides to not move, you can Jab to Grab him.

Recovering is what makes this matchup hard IMO. Platforms are essential for victory, i highly recommend banning FD, and counterpicking a stage with multiple platforms (Battlefield for example).

Thats my advice

--Afro
 

bman in 2288

Smash Journeyman
Joined
Nov 4, 2007
Messages
382
D3 is a large target to sticky. If you're under him and he's on a platform, get that stick in. They will most likely expect an nair, a double-jumped dair, and an utilt. No one sees a sticky.

Also, recover high. D3's WoP will dominate Snake.
 

misterbushido01

Smash Cadet
Joined
Jul 27, 2008
Messages
72
i think battlefield is a great stage against D3
use mines and nades to control the platforms
watch out when you recover or you will get gimped
 

El Raspa

Smash Apprentice
Joined
Oct 18, 2007
Messages
115
**** you must've started with Link It gives me a lot of trouble with his spamable projectiles and his F-smash

I would say that if you are fair away and cooking nades It will D3 want to aproach you
 

Karmacide

Smash Lord
Joined
Mar 26, 2002
Messages
1,661
Location
Somewhere over the Rainbow
Stages with platforms (Battlefield, Lylat) are very useful.

1) If you get grabbed on the platform, the chain grab is not very useful (does not include the moving platform on Smashville.)

2) The mortars still still blow up DDD if they land on them and he's underneath since he's so big.

3) If you bury a mine on the platform it will stop DDD's chain grab as he comes by underneath it.

Timed grenades will be needed to win this. Also, Shield drop grenades where he's going to land from his up B. He's also a pretty big target for the Nikita.
 

Shady Penguin

Smash Lord
Joined
Aug 14, 2008
Messages
1,150
Location
North Carolina
This is definitely an interesting match-up. As we all can probably agree, the biggest threats are Dedede's chain grab and ability to easily punish your recovery. The worst part is, one leads to another.

A good Dedede player will send you for a loop with the chain grab, dtilt you at the edge of the stage, and then get to work on gimping your recovery. I definitely think D3 has the advantage, but I wouldn't call it an extremely bad match-up for Snake.
 

Leh

Smash Ace
Joined
Aug 31, 2008
Messages
529
Location
Nah
Yeah its a very difficult matchup. The style of play that you have to develop is different then what you have to do vs any other character, assuming the D3 is good. In the end, i still think its even.
 

bman in 2288

Smash Journeyman
Joined
Nov 4, 2007
Messages
382
Nah. I feel as though it's tipped in D3's favor. He just has a whole lot going for him against Snake. Better camping, a chaingrab, wall of pain, etc.

I mean, Snake's broken hitboxes can probably work in his favor, but D3 has a hammer, and that just totally outreaches Snake.

In order for Snake to compete, he'll have to control the stage with explosives.
 

Leh

Smash Ace
Joined
Aug 31, 2008
Messages
529
Location
Nah
Nah. I feel as though it's tipped in D3's favor. He just has a whole lot going for him against Snake. Better camping, a chaingrab, wall of pain, etc.

I mean, Snake's broken hitboxes can probably work in his favor, but D3 has a hammer, and that just totally outreaches Snake.

In order for Snake to compete, he'll have to control the stage with explosives.
I disagree with the camping, though D3 feels like a wall when he definitely cant outcamp snake.
 

B.A.M.

Smash Lord
Joined
Mar 13, 2008
Messages
1,538
Location
Fullerton, CA
NNID
Bambatta
i am a snake main as well d3 one as well. while this is tipped in d3's favor a proper approach can bring out snake on top. 1st thing, dont ever fall for the waddle dee spam lure, i dont know how many snakes who just motarslide into my big burly hands. a good grenade game always helps snake vs d3. dont over ftilt (that actually applies to every match) as any decent d3 could shad into a shield grab ur face. also be wary for d3 fullhop dair, that thing will pop snake up in the air, the worst case scenario in this match up. If he gets you off the stage just as some other poster said. recover high, pull out a nade in case of the air chase. and beware of that **** uptilt, as his is quite good (not as great as urs but is still a true threat). he is a fat peguin, however so that makes him suceptible to taking alot of hits if u space right. i love to fake d3s out by a quick retreating dj nair with a slight fast fall at the end so they rush in with their greedy hands and recieve a ftilt in the face. dtilt and ftilt are ur friends and a clean uptilt to finish him off is always nice. and since hes a fat peguin, early percentages depending on the skill level i like to do upthrow mixups. but in all honesty, u should never be so close to him. hes got a great ftilt too, but after a good nade game, d3 is gonna want to actually get some real damage in. d3s for the most part are greedy, punish them for it.
 

Azgner

Smash Apprentice
Joined
May 6, 2008
Messages
131
Location
Brazil
can I make a sugestion? Let's all take the discussion to the old match up thread, as soon as this matchup is closed. so we keep all match ups at the same place.
And Vs DDD, remember: your grenades has a lot more of knockback then most of his projectiles(yeah, gordos not included). D-tilt away his waddle dees, they're a pain. And, if you land a grenade, take advantage of the time you'll get to cook another or to make to explode at the place DDD is. Force him to shield your grenades, as they eat his shield a lot more them most of his projectiles(again, gordos not included). And with a low shield, he can't shield grab you, at the risk of having his shield poked or even having it broken.
 

napZzz

Smash Hero
Joined
Mar 4, 2008
Messages
5,294
Location
cg, MN
This isn't quite true

DDD is my main and he relys on bairs ALOT. Its not just camping with waddles and chain grab spamming. He plays a decent pressure game with bairs/dairs to mix things up when used well.

I find this match up hard for snake, so its a good thing you pulled it up. The hoppy DDD's if anything give me trouble since you cant nade counter/ftilt them if they are up there constantly doing air attacks...

EDIT: I personally have the most trouble with snake that has a good edge guarding game with mortars and nairs and such and the nade spammy ones
 

-Ran

Smash Master
Joined
Feb 16, 2008
Messages
3,198
Location
Baton Rouge
I'll update this once I come home from work today. Please input any final words.
 
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