Clouds first impressions thread.

[TTTTTsd]

He has almost no true combos. New_Dumal I think you're overrating the bair. Ike's seems stronger to me, among many other characters...

Trust me, he's not. It's really good on shield (+2 on shield drop!!!) and if you connect with it up close while falling and if your opponent is at like, 18-30% (this varies) the angle they're hit at puts them in a skid for a free Ftilt followup. It's pretty neat.

It's just a really good Bair in general, honestly. Maybe not one of the best in the game, but REALLY good.

 

[thisNeko]

Cloud recovery will make him low tier. No aerial mobility, no snap and no armor. All i have to do is throw him off stage and wait for his jump. Probably Cloud bigest weakness. Cloud player will have to use sideB, charge downB and all the little tricks they can to recover.

 

[Top Boss]

I'll be honest right here: I didn't think Cloud would be very good when I saw only the trailer. I managed to play against some last night, and I will probably get him later today, but I could see him being in bottom of high tier or something.

 

[Spikezillian]

I think he has amazing strings but not a lot of it is consistent. I dont like his smashes, actually. I feel like the knockback could be much more severe, maybe I'm wrong? I only got to use him for maybe an hour testing out anything I could find.

Down tilt by far his best combo starter, up air is his best aerial next to nair. Nair is great for pushing people off-stage. Dair is okay, the spike isnt nearly as hype as it was in the trailer. Up tilt is totally Shulk-ish and I'm so down with that, love that ****.

Side tilt is a decent way to end some small aerial combos. I had a compiled list of strings I discovered, including one that goes up to 49% (and a less likely to hit one at 54%), but I'm not near that computer at the moment.

 

[DrizzyDrew]

CLoud is so much fun. I see Link and Shulk moves in him but better and faster. Its good to see a fast strong swordsman aside Marth and some others. Not much ending lag on his aerials, but you do have to watch forward air. Loving him and will probably play him serious in the future.

Here I have a Day 1 breakdown of Cloud's moveset and how to use them
Link: https://youtu.be/kdt3fDZCye8

 

[HenryXLII]

I have some issues with Cloud.
-His kill potential is incredibly high, but without a limit break is incredibly lacking.
I am debating if a kill throw would fix this, or make him completely broken

-His recovery is trash, I would even argue that Little Mac has better recovery due to having a horizontal option. Does not always grab the ledge, horrendous range, and easy to punish. Whats worse is this wastes your limit break if you get knocked off stage, on the flip side, if Cloud is knocked too far away, he could charge his limit break mid air and get a better recovery which is interesting tech.

Those are my only two issues with the guy, I think the rest of his move set is really good and really fun. I love using down tilt as a quick distance punish, and blade beam is surprisingly annoying. I think he is going to turn out to be a very defensive character, and a scary one seeing as that limit break strikes about as much fear as a K.O punch. Sadly, I think he is going to be mid tier at best, but perhaps I shall be proven wrong!

 

[Emblem Lord]

Mid tier at worst. High tier at best. He cannot be low tier. Limit break is simply too broken.

 

[Dar4]

I also think he's mid tier. Lots of his moveset is laggy in neutral, he's prone to being countered by a bait and punish game and that recovery is so easy to mess with. So susceptible to being spiked. I'm shocked they didn't give him an auto snap. Blade beam is annoying to deal with but also easy to shield and like arc fire is pretty darn laggy. Not much out of grab either, no hoohah or anything.

I think cloud is going to have big issues when forced to approach. He's definitely played best defensively...he's a defensive character. You'll want to stall to get as much space as you can to get free limit charge time.

I'm thinking dead middle of mid tier. He has enough range and speed to compete, not to mention some absurd killpower with his limit down B. But that recovery, lack of grab combos and his seemingly mediocre neutral will hold him back.

 

[TheBlackLuffy]

I think he has amazing strings but not a lot of it is consistent. I dont like his smashes, actually. I feel like the knockback could be much more severe, maybe I'm wrong? I only got to use him for maybe an hour testing out anything I could find.

Down tilt by far his best combo starter, up air is his best aerial next to nair. Nair is great for pushing people off-stage. Dair is okay, the spike isnt nearly as hype as it was in the trailer. Up tilt is totally Shulk-ish and I'm so down with that, love that ****.

Side tilt is a decent way to end some small aerial combos. I had a compiled list of strings I discovered, including one that goes up to 49% (and a less likely to hit one at 54%), but I'm not near that computer at the moment.

His Dair is amazingly good. Even if you time it early its lasting hitbox can stage spike if you are behind them and off the stage.

 

[TheBlackLuffy]

Mid Tier if he's lucky. He's got speed. An Okay Neutral. He's Meta Knight with better killing power but a terrible recovery. He's got two real approaches. Dash Grab and possibly FF Nair. But he's not designed to approach. Regardless of what people might say. Cloud is a defensive character. His entire build is around it.

From letting his Limit Bar Charge, to the Range on his attacks. Clouds built around being defensive.
His recovery is just entirely to exploitable at high level play. At least has his vertical recovery. ? Just about everyone in the cast can gimp him with no trouble or worry.

His Jab, Down Smash, and Cross Slash all have pretty good knock back. His Throws all also have really good knock back. Now people would claim "What? No follow up throws? He must be bad."

Well he's bad at strings and combs. But that just isn't what Cloud was designed to be like. Cloud is more so reaction based and his moves help keep distance between him and his opponent so he can charge his Limit and not get 0-to Death combo'd off the stage when he doesn't have his Limit charged. Which makes sense.

Clouds Forward Throw, and Up Throw both have good knock back. Allowing you to get an opponent off you if they get to close.

His Ground Speed is actually really good honestly. It allows him to make some quick space between him and his opponent.

Cloud has a few decent set ups if he can get a grab. At 0%. Down Throw + Cross Slash is a true combo and gets you 20%. You can also follow up the Cross Slash with maybe a Nair or a Up Air I think. You'll have to toy around with him to figure it out. And it seems like racking up damage isn't an issue for Cloud. Its getting the kill.

While he has a lot of killing power. Lots of his moves are rather laggy. Not Shulk Laggy, but they are still Laggy.

Fsmash if you ask me is rather hard to punish if you aren't a Top Tier Character who can simply run up and Dash Grab him after he's finished the animation. Because right after he does it he can Neutral B and keep you where you are so he can maintain his space between you.

Ftilt is good for stopping projectiles.

As for getting a kill. Jab into Fully charged Limit Down B or Side B, both kill at around 90%.

I'm glad he's in the game. But I don't see him being Top Tier. His recovery just can't compete.

 

[MockRock]

Lack of data so I can't really come up with anything solid at the moment.

But I do wish his LB didn't automatically activate. Feels like a waste when you have to use it due to needing to recover a short distance.

Seems like a deliberate balancing factor. Cloud can kill you at 40%, but if you knock him offstage you disarm him for a little bit. Considering it can't just be knocked out of him like Little Mac's KO Punch, there needs to be some kind of counterplay.

 

[MockRock]

First impressions from a viability perspective:

He's a mixed bag who's difficult to place. He's got high mobility, ridiculous range, good speed, and insane kill power. He also has trouble killing in the neutral, and is very easy to gimp. I could see him as a mid-tier, but I could also see him as a top tier, depending on what people manage to do with Limit Break. Anyone who can run around the stage, throw out moves completely safely, and then kill you at 40% is definitely worth looking into.

First impressions from a personal perspective:

I am DEFINITELY going to be adopting this guy, at least as a secondary, maybe later as my primary. I've really, really wanted to play a sword character in Sm4sh, but I haven't really found my dream fit in any of the ones we currently have. Cloud just feels so good for me, and so does Corrin, who I'd never heard of but am very excited for. Cloud is mobile, zany, has a projectile, and probably has a deep tech game with all the cancels people are finding for him. Sold!

 

[Dj.D]

I like his play style and I find him fun to use and I want to get better at using him, possibly as a secondary. Kind of wish he had a guaranteed follow up to his throws though. But here's what I don't really get. Almost every Cloud player I fought online was pretty good and put up a good fight, compared to the average For Glory player I run into online. How is that possible when at the time I played, he was available for only a few hours? I don't think I saw that many experienced players so soon with the other DLC characters. I didn't really find any players below my skill level that I could practice my Cloud on the Wii U version. I guess I have to play the 3DS version more since I am more likely to find those kinds of players to practice on.

 

[JJBro1]

so he has absolutely no horizontal recovery?

 

[New_Dumal]

His Bair is not that good (I said god-like before, not that good).
His Uair is better than I imagined, and can be used dropping from plataforms to juggle itself.
UpB is better than expected too. Really solid option OoS, and can kill if the oponnet hits your shield close to the ledge.
UpB is usefull too because have low landing/ending lag, and so can be used in neutral at some stages.
UpB is great combined with Uair as a options when you read a airdodge but the opponent is to high for you catch.

The Nair... good option in neutral.
The best limit breaker move looks to be his neutral, and can be linked in some moves.
The charge is really fast. I'm always charging if I'm not shielding and pressuring.
I still think that in a lot of MU's is good to stay with his limit until you need it for recovering (after 70%).
Saved me a lot of times.

I won't main Cloud, he doesn't even is a character I like too much... but I'm trying to discover early info, and will share here if I discover anything more deep than this kind of thing I already wrote.

 

[Jeronado]

He feels like a mid tier character to me.

I played about an hour long ditto match against a buddy of mine and some of the things I noticed where:
- Uair is amazing. Falling Uair combos into everything and it (alongside u-tilt) is really good for juggling and landing traps
- Perfect pivot U-tilt is the truth, my friend made really good use of it in our ditto match. The fact the move leads into Uair is even better
- Finishing Touch's hitbox is smaller than I expected. It was difficult to land, best way I found was doing it Out of Shield
- Kinda hard to kill with him if you don't have Limit Break. Not sure if he has confirms into his limit breaks either. I'd have to test that.
- His recovery is butt. Doesn't go very far and it's predictable. You can try and mix it up by using side-b to stall his fall, but that's about it. Any character that's half-decent at edge guarding should be able to gimp him.
- D-tilt can be used to dodge people approaching with aerials
- Side-b out of shield is nice
- Edit: About his recovery, I've found recovering high and dropping onto the ledge with the second part of Up-b to work nicely. Probably something you's want to mix-up though cause I'm sure a character like Marth, or projectile characters could punish you for it.

Cloud is fun I don't have any plans to main him or pick him up as a secondary, but he can join my list of pocket characters that I'll use in friendlies.

 

[ぱみゅ]

Guys, please be careful with the Double Posts, some of you already made some.

 

[Winner-Bit]

When I first tried Cloud, I was like "Woah, what the hell? This guy is so broken."

Then I got working with him against some CPUs, and I thought "Well, I guess he's balanced enough. He's pretty laggy, and he can't dance around with the mindgames so much."

And then I found out he foxtrots better than GnW, can shut down horizontal recovery, has three spikes, and can ILBC. Now I think he's OP again. So I think we should wait at least a couple weeks, let some tourneys go by, and see what everyone thinks before deciding if he should be tournament-legal yet.

Based on personal preference, though, I think Cloud's a great addition to the roster. He took a little time to get used to, but after you get rolling with him and learn how to use his moves properly, he's pretty formidable. Even if he gets Greninja-nerfed, he's still a lot of fun to mess around with. Hell, his limit breaks are like miniature Final Smashes. Who wouldn't like that?

 

[SSJ X Cloud Strife]

Can't give a expert breakdown like most of you guys, since I'm still getting used to the terms and such, but my first impressions of Cloud? Hella fun!

I played him a ton yesterday in local player matches, and at first I was getting blownup pretty hard. My first instinct in a fighter is to rushdown. But then I switched it up and played him like I would play Toon Link. Zone and go in when the opportunity presents itself. Then the victories started rolling in.

Overall, I'm very happy with his design. It seems like took a couple of cues from Dissidia. Like his dash and his slow but hard hitting moves. Not so great for keeping pressure but great for counter attacking and punishing and opponents mistakes.

 

[HeavyLobster]

Cloud looks like he's mid to high mid tier to me. Limit Break is too strong for him to actually be bad, but I can't help but think he won't do all that well vs. speedy high tiers who can rush him down and gimp him. An optimized Cloud will likely be a scary sight, but his weaknesses are probably too great for him to advance beyond a certain point.

 

[Rioku]

I'm slightly peeved at Cloud. I've invested a decent amount of time into Shulk but Melee habits prevented me from getting particularly good with Shulk. So I sit down with Cloud today, don't even bother labbing cause he looks like Shulk/Ike and I start winning on for glory. I ran into a few good Zero Suits and Shieks that using Ike or Shulk I would struggle against so much but was able to win sometimes easily with Cloud. Would switch back to Shulk and get donked. Go Cloud and just win. The whole time I'm playing this guy I'm like you kinda just push buttons and win.

Cloud rewards good reads very very well. His weird initial dash makes me happy since the timing for an extended dash dance with this character is as rough as Shulk's (why can't everyone be Roy?) He also appears to have some fairly solid combos, though I haven't labbed the character and these are just some for glory stuff that worked. Nair -> dtilt -> bair/nair/uair has been pretty consistent if you hit with an early hitbox of nair at low percents, and it puts the opponent in a really nasty position.

Though I'm noticing I seem to be alone in this position esp from playing other for glory Clouds that are just awful. Like seriously even the better for glory Clouds have been terrible. Cloud's recovery is not good but it's not as bad as people say and you can sweetspot the ledge with it similarly to Melee Marth. Also his lack of a grab game hasn't really impacted me at all. I kinda just stopped using grab after the first few matches and was better off for it. The ridiculous length of the buster sword has let me get away with a lot of attacks on shield. Also jab on shield is hilarious cause it always throws people off since I slide behind the shield and don't get grabbed by that shield grab that everyone has programmed into their minds. It's hilarious though I think people will adapt to that soon. I've been getting a lot of success with the character using a Shulk/Ike playstyle. Lots of nair approaches and dtilts. Dash attack is crazy fast too. I'm mixing in a little of my Robin as charging limits feels very similar to charging Thoron. Also limits are completely busted.

Edit: I should add on my thoughts on the Zero Suit and Shiek. Shiek is really hard to work around. And will kill you off stage no questions asked. When playing a Shiek get a limit break asap and do not use it until you absolutely need it for recovering or know you can get the kill of course. Limit break cross slash is not worth it on Shiek even with the massive damage. Needles are just way too fast to do anything about.

ZSS actually doesn't feel so bad, esp since she dies very early on you. Her projectile is pretty easy to work around and for some weird reason the up b is not just not connecting all the way as much as it does on my other characters (weight and fall speed?) It's probably just some weird coincidence but in the matches I played with a ZSS for every time I was hit by an up b, 1 went all the way through for every 3 that just popped me out before the last kick or something like that. Also ZSS does not like your up air.

 

[ChainArmour712]

As a Link main, Cloud was giving me a lot of trouble today. He's pretty much Link, but does everything Link can do better.

Faster overall, air attacks beat out Link's consistently (Nair is just ridiculous), ground attacks that beat out Link's air attacks consistently, better combos than Link, a projectile good enough to compete with Link's, and far safer kill moves on top of Limit, which being shield cancellable is safe even against projectile spam. His moves are both faster and safer than Link's in general, the only thing Link does better than Cloud are recovery and bombs.

With all that being said, Link is far from a high tier but it's discouraging to see Cloud outclass my main so hard. My guess is that Cloud will ultimately be on Ike's level competitively, as Sheik/Sonic/Pika/Metaknight can and will take advantage of his recovery. His limit attacks and air game will keep him at the top of upper mid tier.

 

[MapleBeasts]

So far he seems to be pretty good. He is surprisingly fast for a sword fighter with power, and his aerials tend to not have much end lag. Nair is godly at disrupting enemy combo setups (Faster Shulk Nair essentially) and he seems to be pretty safe on shield with lots of attacks and hard to punish. Limit Break is sooooo goood though, especially on cross slash and finishing blow or whatever it's called. The slash does high damage and kills at around 100% I find, and the down b kills after 60% percent assuming your opponent doesn't DI perfectly. Only real weakness is recovery as the height of up special isn't something to behold unless you blow your limit break to recover, and he has no horizontal options, making him really weak to gimps. I say he ends up in highish tier (top 15 fighters)

 

[MapleBeasts]

so he has absolutely no horizontal recovery?

None at all. The Shieks/MK/Villager players just gimp him to hell unfortunately. But it's a necessary evil has he's very powerful in most regards.

 

[Meru.]

His Nair is just STUPID. Frame 5, extremely good range, low ending lag, links into stuff, can fastfall autocancel in the end... SH Nairs can great an amazing wall. Uair and Bair are of course really good too, and I see some potential in full hop Dair or using Dair when recovering. The autocancel windows seem to be pretty good on this thing. Fair is decent when full hopped. All in all his aerials are solid.

Neutral B is a decent projectile, especially good versus landings. With limit it's very strong. Side B is pretty good, it has good range, not sure how safe this is though. Again much stronger with limit. UpB is a great option OoS, again much stronger. Finishing Touch is the only one Im not really feeling, it's hella slow and I can't find any set ups for it.

His jab and tilts are also fantastic. They're really fast for something this ranged.

His ledge pressure is looking REALLY strong. Ftilt works really well against get ups, get up rolls are easy to punish and jumps get Uaired or Naired.

I think he's a solid mid for now. Cant find some set-ups for him!

 

[Top Boss]

This character is gonna rise up a ton once people get smart with him. He's pretty insane when it comes to mindgames and catching landings. Every move you make has to create a certain scenario so you can cover the opponent's next option. Not exactly sure how many people realize it, but you have to think about the game in the long run to be good with cloud.

 

[Erotic&Heretic]

I'm really bad with him at the moment.

I can see how he his good, but I'm having troubles handling him. I should stop using Fair that much and be more patient about using his limit.

And that recovery...

 

[Hotdog Cat]

Very interesting play style.

He is slightly built like a fortress and doesn't have too many answers with grabs if the opponent shields, but he applies a lot of pressure with multi-hit attacks. Easily gimped with poor horizontal recovery. His limit break system might set him up to be the gatekeeper of the high tier. After playing him and facing him a bit he has a lot of trouble with fast pressure which is typically what set everyone below the higher tiered characters.

He usually has a decent answer to pressure people back and build that wall for him to reach limit break. This works both horizontally with his specials and vertically with his u-air. Pretty great addition and I can't wait to see the meta grow around him.

 

[MagiusNecros]

Recovery issues and takes a while to kill stuff outside of limit IMO. He's okay right now for me.

 

[MockRock]

I think we should wait at least a couple weeks, let some tourneys go by, and see what everyone thinks before deciding if he should be tournament-legal yet.

What? He's going to be tournament legal, I don't think anybody's really having a debate about that. Why would they?

 

[Yaki]

He's got great standard attacks, but without limit, his specials kinda just are there without limit, recovery being the worst offender. Overall I'd say he's High mid, but when peopel figure out his frame data/attack speed, he might fall to the middle of mid tier.

 

[MagiusNecros]

Liking Cloud more. Not noteworthy but I've been getting Dthrow > Fsmash > Cross Slash strings for a nice 45% damage quite often.

Ftilt if you want something guaranteed. If you can catch em prone that's usually when you'll want to Cross Slash.

And his Down throw always throws enemies behind him. Pretty great.

 

[ZTD | TECHnology]

My initial thoughts:

Non Limit Break Climhazzard is very mediocre as a recovery and Blade Beam's stalling properties is only marginally beneficial in aiding Cloud's longevity. This overall gives Cloud a pretty weak recovery. In order to survive in this metagame with a weak recovery, you need an exceptionally good neutral/punish game. Cloud's mobility, respectable range, decent frame data do give him a solid on stage presence. Blade Beam is a respectable zoning tool. I definitely like the fact that his Up Air is very good, he has kill power and scary punishes and although he lacks many true combos, many of his moves create advantageous situations (like his Down Throw) to lead into additional damage. Limit Break is what stops him from being a low tier. Co-signing to Emblem Lord's comment about Limit Break being way too good of an option to leave Cloud at low tier.

I see a potentially high tier character in singles. He's a gimmick character imo. He's like a more fragile Wario with better range. I think he's gonna be a GREAT doubles character however. Limit Break alone helps but Climhazzard can set up for vertical kills and Down Throw gives a potential kill setup option. Excited to see dedicated Cloud users will do with him.

 

[Dar4]

Seems like he's going to lose hard to top tiers that go in. Going in is definitely the way to beat cloud. His frame data is just ok, it negates his range, and going in prevents him from charging limit. He's gonna have bad matchups with fox, mario, sheik and most of the other speedy top tiers.

Down B is stupid though, Nairo posted a video on his youtube of a ZSS dying to it at 13% when it's used in the air.

At first I was thinking mid tier because of his recovery. But, I see him hovering around where captain falcon and wario are on the tier list. Top 15-20 most likely for cloud. Low high tier. There's no way he's every going to be top tier with that recovery though, that huge weakness definitely caps his potential. Sort of like the way captain falcon's recovery prevents him from ever being top tier.

His recovery is not good and can be exploited but limit down B is too absurd for him to not be atleast upper mid tier. He basically has a wario waft that can be used more than twice as often. His comeback potential is ridiculous, probably best in the game. I'd say it surpasses wario's because down b limit comes back much faster than wafts and they have similar killpower.

And it's not like him being off stage is a guaranteed gimp. Cloud's recovery is bad but people are over exaggerating exactly how bad it is. Buster sword can get in the way, it still requires good timing from the opponent and cloud mains will find ways to mix it up to make it less predictable.

 

[AZ_Spellbound]

He seems like a solid mid tier to me. His limit breaks are good, but his recovery and throw games sets him back a bit.
i think he will develop into a fairly decent character within a year though.

 

[SFC Goat]

The amount of people that I've heard saying that he's broken, OP and a solid high tier make me cringe slightly.

Like don't get me wrong, he's super fun and the FF7 shill in me is having the best time ever but as this thread has pointed out, he has several flaws that even out his good traits.

Well rounded? Yeah. OP and broken? Lmao no.

 

[Comorant]

Cloud's recovery is worse than Little Mac but I don't think it'll gimp him anywhere as badly since he has spacing tools and aerials. Nair and Bair help him land so he doesn't get juggled off the stage into the abyss instantly. Limit Break also tends to be charged around the ranges where getting thrown off the stage becomes common.

Finishing Touch is powerful but I think realistically Limit is going to end up more often used for recovery or the much more consistent Cross Slash.

 

[Uncle Honey]

This just in: I think Cloud's recovery is worse than Dr. Mario's.

 

[Zalezus]

His recovery is subpar, but good survival vectoring/DI and an early Cross Slash either higher than or level with the ledge should get you back (think Marth's first hit Dancing Blade.) On the other hand with his Limit Break charged, he can get back from any distance that didn't kill him with the possibility of getting a free edgeguard gimp.

All of this said, what are you doing off of the stage to begin with? Haha

My first impressions: He's fast on his feet and while some of his harder hitting attacks have a decent amount of startup and end lag, he covers space well with quicker attacks. As mentioned before in this thread, his range is ridiculous. That should save him in most neutral scenarios from committing to anything that gets him put offstage. The LB charge is great for baiting: you can act out of it into anything for a punish that might well be free. And I think a couple matches is all one needs to figure that Cloud punishes really hard.

I don't think his recovery is a big deal if one (as Cloud) does the following:

1. Don't play like a rushdown.

2. Stay focused on controlling the stage.

3. Be patient.

Cloud doesn't need much. A single dtilt > utilt > uair string or some variation thereof should be enough to put the target at or close to kill percent.

 

[FamilyTeam]

I don't have him on my 3DS (I don't have any of the DLC period), but I finally got to play him over at my friend's house.
He's... alright. He's extremely easy to gimp, I have no idea what is the KO% for his Up Smash (I know it's a really, really weak move), and his special moves without limit breaker aren't that great. He's also combo food for Mario.
I think his recovery is what's really hurting any potential he might have. One mistake can get you killed very early, and if you want your recovery to be decent, you need to have your limit breaker maxed out and waste it recovering.