Clouds first impressions thread.

[RebelXII]

Tomorrow, We will get more information on the new 3rd party character Cloud Strife who has been announced for Smash in November. We have been waiting a long time for his release. So tomorrow, it is rumored that Cloud and other DLC characters will be released tomorrow. So this is a thread for first thoughts on the character.

 

[Hinata]

So tomorrow, it is rumored that Cloud and other DLC characters will be released.

Not to hijack the thread, but Cloud is definitely being released tomorrow. Tomorrow's update was added to the Nintendo servers early, and Cloud's Classic Mode victory movie and the data for his stage, were found in the files.

So, unless they're just messing with us to the fullest extent, we can expect to see the Buster Sword-wielding badass tomorrow after the broadcast.

 

[ぱみゅ]

"Give it some time" is my vote for almost everything discussed within this board.

 

[GamerTimeUS]

Sword + Projectile = Win Win for Me!

 

[tronfox64]

His movement feels incredible. He can essentially dash dance due to how short yet far his initial dash goes.

Also... he can perform Sheik and Robs Instant Needle Cancel/Instant Gyro Cancel... This means he can perform tilts while running... Instant Limit Cancel... insane.

First impression? He's Amazing.

Edit: Although... his recovery is rather lacking...

 

[ADAPT Chance]

Massive potential, trying learn how to properly utilize his limits at the moment.

 

[FlynnCL]

Consider me surprised by how nice they were for his autocancels. The trailer made him seem far worse.

An example being down-aerial, which still hits grounded opponents after a full jump and can still autocancel. It actually makes an amazing combo starter but you do telegraph yourself a lot.

Neutral-aerial is incredible, especially since it doesn't have significant aerial cool-down similar to Shulk or Ike or the large start-up either. Up-aerial might be one of the best up-aerials in the whole game, auto-cancels extremely early, does a ton of damage and it juggles for days.

Seems like he has a significant lack of options whenever off-stage and in some cases you'll need to burn out whatever Limit you've charged. There are times you don't even need the buffed recovery but you still have to use it, thus making a few fights very slow if you need certain Limit Breaks.

I think he's one of the better characters in the game. I don't understand how someone could think he's overpowered right now, his recovery flaw is quite extreme.

 

[Luig]

His nair is amazing for spacing.
If you use it moderately outside the opponent's reach, it creates lots of pressure.

He doesn't really have any combo throws.
Dthrow has too much kbg, however at 0% you can try for a turnaround jab or dsmash.
And around 60 near the ledge, if you dthrow and you think they will airdodge, wait, and then fair them for an early kill.

 

[VPTurnip]

His down smash is SO fast.
His nair, again, amazing spacing tool. His projectile is a good spacing tool as well, better than I thought it'd be.
I thought the Limit Break Blade Beam was unblockable, but then found out they only took off their shield too early after someone did manage to shield it.

He's also much slower than I thought he'd be in run .. float speed.

 

[thisNeko]

- Poor combo game and follow up
- - Crapy recovery (and doest sweetspot)
+ Good Kill Potential
+ Limit Break
- Poor Grab game
++ Very good range
+ Good autocancels
+ Good Dash (looks like GaW dash you can easely bait your opponent)
-+ A laggy projectile which is still not bad

So far, i found a few combo starter :

falling Nair -> Jab/Dtilt can work at low %
Utilt can combo into itself and Uair at mid %
falling Uair can combo into anything which is a good thing
falling Dair autocancel can combo as well

Limit Break sideB is probably our best kill moove since it s very fast and kill early.

Cloud looks like a zoning/baiting/punishing character.

In the end, i can see him beeing high tier with a lot of work but he is far to be OP.

Maybe with some good kill setup...

EDIT : For exemple i was trying to do an falling Uair to downB or something like that

 

[kenniky]

I don't think Cloud will be very good.

- frame data is trash
- throw game is horrendous, no combo or kill throws
- recovery sucks
- no OoS options

Cloud will need some really good use of the Limit Break in order to even compete at a high level imo

 

[Damandatwin]

Cloud's fox trot/dash dance seems really really useful. I think that combined with his nair and bair (and maybe projectile) gives him a decent neutral game.

 

[SlurpySloth]

- no OoS options

His N-air is phenomenal. Honestly, it covers tons of your opponents options, it's fast, has great autocancel frames, and putting those previous statements together, it's incredibly safe. This move does it all.

 

[Cronoc]

I'll just say I'm underwhelmed.

 

[SFC Goat]

I'm having difficulty comboing with him. Maybe because of little play so far but this seems like a bit of an issue for me.

Other than that, he's really fun and hitting a successful limit break down b is absolutely hilarious.

 

[Uncle Honey]

Borderline not viable. He lacks too many important fundamental options noted in the list thisNeko wrote above. To add, shield beats him extremely hard due to his poor spacing, shield poke, and grab options which nullifies his high kill potential--his greatest redeeming trait. The worst trait: he may very well have the 3rd worst recovery behind Doc and Mac.

 

[RebelXII]

I figured it out. Cloud is all of about Mix ups and reads. You have to do a lot of baiting and spacing if you want to get those KOs.

Specials
Blade beam is ok. Its good for getting pressure off you. LIMIT BREAK Blade beam on the other hand...kills off stage, is fast, Kills on stage and goes a pretty fair distance.

Cross slash is a good roll punisher. Its a decent out of shield option as well. LIMIT BREAK Cross slash breaks shields, and kills off stage without putting you into free fall.

his U-special is his down fall. It doesn't go far, The second hit will not grab the ledge, and it dose not have any horizontal movement. Its ok out of shield though. LIMIT BREAK kills! It goes VEEEEEEEEEEEEERY far.

LIMIT BREAK will continue eve if you get hit. But if you get KO'd, then it goes away.


My suggestion is that you start every match with LIMIT BREAK. Clouds LIMIT BREAKS make Cloud a unique and strong character.

 

[AGreatProcrastinator]

Feels pretty good to me. If balance patches will be released with the last couple of characters I'd love to see the endlag on his dtilt reduced just a bit. I feel like it can lead into aerial follow ups if you space it right, but the timing seems to be really strict. Also seems to lack some "omph," in my opinion, so I guess I won't be ditching Ike after all.

Can't see him being high tier, but seems like he can at least be okay.

 

[Frizz]

I've played him in friendlies a couple of times, and to be frank, he's quite intimidating. His attacks hit hard and come out quick, and that down special...
*shudders*
I think Cloud took the word "fear" to a whole new level. I wonder if Bayonetta and Corrin will surpass that.

 

[link2702]

op'd as hell is what my first impression is.

I know "he's just been revealed blah blah blah" but still, he basically has little mac's KO punch, times 4(all of them kill pretty damn early, maybe not AS early as KO punch, but still a lot earlier then most other moves), a lot of his moves have decent range and not too much end lag, some good aerials, with his forward aerial spiking at the tip like DK's, and the fact that he can charge his limit break meter gives him something mac could only dream of. His aerial speed is also decent-good, which helps his recovery, and his side b or side smash can be followed by his down throw at lower %'s.

He's definitely high tier material easily.

 

[New_Dumal]

Not so good, not so bad.
Cloud is a character that looks to belong in Ike position (not tier-wise, gamewise): strong swordman with a few good options, but bad MU's.

Aerials impressions:
Hir Bair is god-like.One of the best in the game. I think people who mains Cloud will RAR Bair everywhere.
His Uair is good ? I think it's good,and can juggle in itself against part of the roster.
His Fair is okay. Good tool against some recoveries (dat spike), but is very slow to use in neutral, and the range will make him no safe againt fast characters.
His Dair is bad. Can be usefull... but will probably not. One of his worse moves in my opnion.
His Nair is fast. Sometimes I feel is too fast (because the active frames are few). Okay OoS, punish behind....

Specials:
Neutral B : Great move! I can see a lot of pressure coming from this, and I presume it will be important in a lot of MU's.
SideB: Really bad move. Not worth, in my sincere opnion. You can punish roll, yes... But if you know it will be a roll, just FSmash them.
UpB: Good as attack, horrible as recovery. Okay/Good option OoS, but don't have great kill potential or combo potential at all.Usefull anyway, hit high up and fast (very good for air dodge traps). One of the worst recovery moves in the game.Completely vertical, can't grab the ledge when going down... OMG, this is bad.

Limit Breaker: Usefull kill move with the Down B, but I think it's more important save it to UpB in a great part of the MU's ?
The limit breaker side B is okay, the UpB is very great OoS too, and the Neutral is quite good (but worth it ? over a decent recovery ?)

Tilts:
FTilt: You have more time to punish than you need with jab and less than you need with FSmash. That's it. Good pivot FTilt.
DTilt: One of his best movies ? Goes far, reduce hitbox, setup for Uair/Utilt... Even better out of a foxtrot.
UTilt: I yet don't know anything usefull to say here.

Smashes:
Fsmash: The opponent messed up hard, you take the stock.
USmash: Good when you know your opponent will attack you while jumping ( offensive Sheik's can take this a lot).
DSmash: OMG! OMG! OMG! One of the best DSmashes at the game, and probably of his best moves.
I think you can use this instead of FTilt in a lot of ways, and is great to punish rolls to, over above options.
The knockback direction is quite good, the knockback too... This is a example of a great DSmash to give to some character.

Throws are bad, but DThrow have potential.
UThrow can kill in plataforms, never forget this.

Jab is common.

-----------
I know I was too superficial, but I played few times with him yet, and that's what I already can say about it.

 

[Cronoc]

He has almost no true combos. New_Dumal I think you're overrating the bair. Ike's seems stronger to me, among many other characters...

 

[Iron Maw]

I feels he's very solid and fun so far, good range and damage. He's much faster than I thought he would be too. I think his real glaring weakness is recovery at the moment, but he feels pretty viable outside of that.

BTW, lovin Jab>Cross Slash/Finishing Touch at low %'s!

 

[hphk]

I'm not the best at this game but Cloud looks super strong.

First off his LB cancel is amazing, you can run the majority of the match while being safe. You can shield, tilt, jab, smash attack, and jump out of the cancel, it's like a shine without a hitbox which is no joke in this game.

His normals are pretty good, dair is not easy to spike with but has a more active hitbox than I expected. Uair is godlike. Nair is great OoS. His neutral B is also a lot better than people think, you can use it to camp, edgeguard, and whiff punish. His Side-B is a good punish move, comes out quick and does roughly 24% and leaves you in a good position.

Limit Break moves are where he really shines however. Neutral and Side B becomes a kill move at a nice percent. Up B becomes a great recovery move (pro-tip: If you're at a high percent and get hit off stage you can charge your limit break and can recover much more easily with you Up B if you were at about 70% Limit before)

He's really good at camping so far I think, You can run away while building meter and use your neutral B somewhat like falco's laser, and threaten to come in when you're fully charged which doesn't take long at all. I think a good playstyle would be to camp early in the game and after you've built enough meter and racked enough damage you could start approaching. Limit Break moves scare the opponent and you can punish mistakes hard with them. Use Down B as much as possible, you can cancel it easily and it charges fast, you should have a full bar every time the opponent is respawning.

UPDATES: LB Down B is ridiculous! Just killed at 57%! Camping has been working very well for me so far, nair to keep them away is strong. Limit Break cancel is also good for tech chasing and edgeguarding

 

[StevoPhilo]

He seems meh. I think Ike and Shulk do a better job as long range sword fighters.

Side B has too much lag, but can do some damage. Neutral B is okay, but has A LOT of end lag. Up B is meh and Down B for charge takes forever, but the kill move is pretty neat.

His tilts are too slow, but his down tilt is one of the few combo leads that he may have even though it's punishable.

Nair and Bair are good, but I feel like the other 2 characters I mention do it better. (Ike/Shulk) His Dair is pretty awesome as a wall type of move for it's extended hitbox.

He seems to be okay, but I think he's just too punishable in his current state. It's kind of how Ike was on release.

He needs a solid combo and perhaps some faster tilts and a little less end lag. Then I think he'd be a solid contender.

 

[Neo Zero]

Keep in mind you can actually grab the ledge with his Up B on the downswing. The issue being you essentially have to do the upswing ledge level, which will allow you to grab the ledge while moving down.

 

[Uncle Honey]

Not sure why his upb doesn't snap. Poor design.

 

[Alice Margatroid]

Lack of data so I can't really come up with anything solid at the moment.

But I do wish his LB didn't automatically activate. Feels like a waste when you have to use it due to needing to recover a short distance.

 

[A2ZOMG]

Cloud's D-air is really good and you should be abusing FH AC D-air for KO confirms. FH AC D-air -> Finishing Touch is a legit confirm.

There's also like no commitment to canceling the limit break charge, so basically most of your strategy should be running away and charging it, baiting people who have to fight you due to the threat of Finishing Touch being able to kill people at like 60% (and can be comboed into out of D-air or N-air sometimes).

U-air is good for frame traps. Cloud also has a RIDICULOUSLY good initial dash (low frame count before you can shield).

Biggest weaknesses are he really needs Limit Break to be scary, and his negative state is about as bad as Roy's (fastfaller, bad recovery)

 

[ArcanaXIII]

Played around with him for a little bit. I like how he feels, but he seems to lack some decent true combos. Seems like there's a lot of things you can do with Limit Break cancels/tech, but I don't know how far that'll get him. He also has a good jab, Bair, and Nair. He honestly feels kind of like Roy to me, which isn't a bad thing at all, at least for me. He's fast and he hits hard, but you'll probably have to commit to reads and baiting your opponent for those kills.

Granted, this may all change in a few weeks or so as we learn more about him.

 

[Kevandre]

I'm very happy with Cloud. I've never cared about the character or FF7 but when I was playing as him tonight... I was incredibly impressed. Tons of fun to play as.

 

[LunarWingCloud]

I think he's solid but not top tier.

He has some slow-ish moves and some moves that are surprisingly quick. He's got a decent toolset, good aerial movement, two useful meteor smashes in DAir and FAir (there is a meteor hitbox in the move), and he's a decent weight. He's really agile and has a great dash. His range is ridiculous, which was to be expected when you're carrying such a giant ass sword.

For specials, Climhazzard sucks as a recovery but LB Clim is disgusting as a kill move. Finishing Touch has some good applications as well. Being able to charge Limit Break is a plus despite the fact I didn't think it'd happen. Cross-Slash is kinda meh, I was hoping it'd aid his recovery but it doesn't really do anything in that regard, though I do like that it connects very well. Still was at least hoping for a Dancing Blade-like function where it could be continued without Limit Break's aid if you continue to press (which it doesn't).

His aerials are pretty much all great, I don't think many people can easily challenge him in the air. His UAir can kill and has a great, lingering hitbox much like TLink who also has a great UAir. His BAir is quick, his NAir covers a huge range.

Smashes are great, his DSmash is really fast for a smash attack and can kill at reasonable percents, his FSmash has good range and makes a good punishing tool, and his USmash is pretty quick even if it doesn't doesn't cover as much range as, say, Ike's.

Throws aren't that great, UThrow is good at low percents to create follow-ups and BThrow can toss people off-stage for edge-guarding, but DThrow doesn't really create a chance for decent follow-ups and FThrow isn't anything all that special.

Jab is great, it's fast, deals decent damage, and leaves some room for a follow-up. Dash attack is your standard dash attack I think, nothing too bad, nothing that good. Definitely better than most characters I use personally.

Overall I think he's good. No extremely glaring weaknesses outside of bad recovery, but I think he'll be a decent fighter with decently-linking attacks and a strong mixup game. I like him, he's certainly not as good with combos as Ryu, Pikachu, Sheik, Roy, etc., but what he's good at, he's GREAT at, and what he's not so great at he can cover up decently with his options. He's not top tier at all, but I think he's solid. I'm sure he'll perform pretty well.

 

[hphk]

Cloud's D-air is really good and you should be abusing FH AC D-air for KO confirms. FH AC D-air -> Finishing Touch is a legit confirm.

There's also like no commitment to canceling the limit break charge, so basically most of your strategy should be running away and charging it, baiting people who have to fight you due to the threat of Finishing Touch being able to kill people at like 60% (and can be comboed into out of D-air or N-air sometimes).

U-air is good for frame traps. Cloud also has a RIDICULOUSLY good initial dash (low frame count before you can shield).

Biggest weaknesses are he really needs Limit Break to be scary, and his negative state is about as bad as Roy's (fastfaller, bad recovery)

What types of frame traps do you do with Uair? Really nice call on the auto cancel Dair, I'm trying to make a spreadsheet with Cloud's frame data, setups, percentages etc. and that's really useful info.

 

[A2ZOMG]

What types of frame traps do you do with Uair? Really nice call on the auto cancel Dair, I'm trying to make a spreadsheet with Cloud's frame data, setups, percentages etc. and that's really useful info.

Generic juggle traps with U-air are good with Cloud. U-air has little landing lag, meaning if they're above you and you U-air, they're getting hit even if they airdodge (I'd assume D-smash is the best option in this situation). If they get hit anyway, you can combo into stuff.

 

[TheBuzzSaw]

I love how fast his U-tilt is. It proved quite useful as an answer to aerial opponents. Being able to react last second is great.

 

[neil2020]

so I guess I won't be ditching Ike after all.

Can't see him being high tier, but seems like he can at least be okay.

How dare you think of ditching the big man Kappa

But I feel like Cloud's neutral is pretty decent. He can weave in and out of his enemy's range with his good dash/foxtrot, his dtilt is pretty darn awesome, limit cancels give him some movement/bait/punish options, and he's generally pretty quick. Uair is also ridiculously good. I also killed with Dthrow facing away from the ledge. The other player was another Cloud at like 140... just a thought.

Also Finishing touch is a powerful KO option that isn't hard to combo into.

All in all he feels pretty comfortable to play, and right off the bat I'd put him somewhere in mid tier. Just to hazard a guess.

Get hit offstage without limit Climhazzard however.... :'( It doesn't snap, has poor vertical height, and little to no horizontal movement. It will snap if you're facing away from the ledge tho, which is odd.

 

[neil2020]

How dare you think of ditching the big man Kappa

But I feel like Cloud's neutral is pretty decent. He can weave in and out of his enemy's range with his good dash/foxtrot, his dtilt is pretty darn awesome, limit cancels give him some movement/bait/punish options, and he's generally pretty quick. Uair is also ridiculously good. I also killed with Dthrow facing away from the ledge. The other player was another Cloud at like 140... just a thought.

Also Finishing touch is a powerful KO option that isn't hard to combo into.

All in all he feels pretty comfortable to play, and right off the bat I'd put him somewhere in mid tier. Just to hazard a guess.

Get hit offstage without limit Climhazzard however.... :'( It doesn't snap, has poor vertical height, and little to no horizontal movement. It will snap if you're facing away from the ledge tho, which is odd.

Sorry this was meant to be an edit to the text above.

 

[Simperheve]

A lot of his moves feel like they have a lotta start and end lag, but then the move execution is pretty snappy!

 

[CyberHyperPhoenix]

You can tech the first hit of Down Smash rip.

 

[CanadianMegaMan]

It kind of feels like you don't even need to limit cancel to do things quickly out of a run, skid animation seems to be interruptible as soon as his foot touches the ground, same with his initial dash animation. Once you get the timing down, it's really easy to just run or dash right up to someone, return stick to neutral, and then use your move immediately.