Clones like fox and falco, must disappear, in a project like this..

[shadowXtreme]

--- Why Fox an Falco have the same moves in project M?

this is certainly a contradiction.. because if PM intended to preserve melee´s clones,
why they made roy different, roy and marth were clones!, I am not saying that a different roy is a bad thing, because it is not.. it is great, but I really think they should modify falco (like brawl, I would suggest, too keep brawl/melee developers track) or fox, maybe I will be hated for my opinion lol, but I really think that clones (not the clone engine ones lol), must disappear, even from this project -_-

 

[Kor]

How would we gain anything by removing content? In what way is that helpful?

 

[Paradoxium]

Why do noobs fail to understand this concept,
I'm going to try and explain this without being a douche (a real challenge for me)

Fox and Falco's moves only LOOK the same, but they function DIFFERENTLY

Watch a professional fox play, and then watch a professional Falco play, they do not play alike

 

[Xermo]

 

[MLGF]

OK, I'm just gonna vent out my first issue with this post in a little quote... from myself.

If your argument has poor grammar, I'm more likely to perceive you as unintelligent and uneducated, hence I'm less likely to take you seriously.
Do you really think any man who changed the world with his words would have been successful with going "U GUIZ NEED 2 CHANGE THINGS A-HOLES"? No, people would roll their eyes and consider that person as an ignorant fool. While this is small scale, the point still stands. If you want me to care about what you say, say it well. I won't care for your opinion on a subject, even if it may have backing, if you argue like a twelve year old.

Anyways, Falco was a Melee fan favorite and his playstyle was certainly different from Fox in ways that mattered, animations aside. Sure, Brawl Falco was also different, but he was also a campy bore to play against. Perhaps if Brawl offered anything to Falco other then different aesthetics to make him more enjoyable then Melee Falco, you may have an argument. As it stands however Melee Falco is the better choice and this is a overdone topic that really needs to stop reappearing everywhere.

 

[Xinc]

I'm sure this topic was revisited many times. Just saying that "clones" still play differently. Anyway, Falco and Fox don't have all the same moveset, either. (The A neutral was changed, the lengths of recoveries changed. )

 

[NameChange]

In a project like Project M, Fox and Falco should stay

 

[Spiffykins]

Not to beat a dead horse, but I think it's worth pointing out that even moves which function similarly aren't identical in practice. Only Falco can short hop and auto cancel back air, for example, and neutral air fits in with his moveset and mobility completely differently despite being basically the same attack.

 

[PMS | LEVEL 100 MAGIKARP]

tires don exits

 

[Pwnz0rz Man]

Clones like Fox? Are you saying clones that are similar to Fox, or that Fox is a clone?

 

[Sixth-Sense]

--- Why Fox an Falco have the same moves in project M?

this is certainly a contradiction.. because if PM intended to preserve melee´s clones,
why they made roy different, roy and marth were clones!, I am not saying that a different roy is a bad thing, because it is not.. it is great, but I really think they should modify falco (like brawl, I would suggest, too keep brawl/melee developers track) or fox, maybe I will be hated for my opinion lol, but I really think that clones (not the clone engine ones lol), must disappear, even from this project -_-

They might be clones when it comes to animations, but they are very very very very very very different in how they play, not to mention how iconic they are in the melee smash scene

as far as i've seen brawl falco in a melee environment would be the campiest ************ ever conceived, and it would be a huge slap to the face to many melee players

oh and if your not aware of how PM came into production, the team who were making brawl+ gave up on the project and shanus had the idea of making a melee falco moveset for brawl, blah blah blah PM became a thing. So basically falco is the initial inspiration for starting this monumental project

 

[shadowXtreme]

They might be clones when it comes to animations, but they are very very very very very very different in how they play, not to mention how iconic they are in the melee smash scene

as far as i've seen brawl falco in a melee environment would be the campiest mother****er ever conceived, and it would be a huge slap to the face to many melee players

oh and if your not aware of how PM came into production, the team who were making brawl+ gave up on the project and shanus had the idea of making a melee falco moveset for brawl, blah blah blah PM became a thing. So basically falco is the initial inspiration for starting this monumental project

whoa I didnt knew about that (melee falco being the initial step for project M).- ok that is strong point to keep falco moveset looking like fox moveset, ok they play different, but for the eye, they look the same,. but if falco was the beggining of project M, then he wont be changed, ever
-_-, but roy is another story, his moveset was actually changed, it can be seen on his trailer, maybe Roy character was asking for a moveset modiffication, since Gamecube Melee game..

 

[Sixth-Sense]

whoa I didnt knew about that (melee falco being the initial step for project M).- ok that is strong point to keep falco moveset looking like fox moveset, ok they play different, but for the eye, they look the same,. but if falco was the beggining of project M, then he wont be changed, ever
-_-, but roy is another story, his moveset was actually changed, it can be seen on his trailer, maybe Roy character was asking for a moveset modiffication, since Gamecube Melee game..

well roy apart from his buffs, his moveset was changed mainly bc they were moves with no purpose, i mean heres what they changed (for the better)

-his bair: looks great and is extremely useful as a kill move, something that roy severely lacked in melee apart from his f-smash, which wasn't easy to hit with either

-parts of his front-b: mostly to give it other properties and to be a different than marth's aesthetic wise, you could say the same for fox/falco but they only have one move, while marth/roy share in entire combo with variations depending on where you move the control stick, so it would be ideal to give him his own finishers AND his dancing blade actually kills, which is more than marth can say

- F-tilt: changed it into a stab that helps him with his limited range, his melee f-tilt is garbage in every sense of the word, with this PM iteration you have the ability to shield stab, you can actually zone out characters that would normally kick your ass with projectiles or range like marth, and allows you to angle it like many other f-tilts, so its a huge step forward, not to mention it looks great

- down smash: it was actually ok in melee, but from what i can see this new roy d-smash is a lot faster, kills earlier, and is very pleasing to the eye

- Nair: in melee you could do single hit nairs to secure a d-tilt or grab, and you could also hit with both and it was ok, but PM apart from giving it a very cool graphical effect which stays true to his sword (as far i know he is the one who uses the fire emblem, which is his sword) and its a single hit (i think) that hits fast, if i'm mistaken and hits twice then all the better since it still packs more of a punch compared to melee

so yeah, the only useless things fox/falco have is their f-airs, and even then their are some players how use it to some extent, not alot mind you but i have seen it been used to grab, to wall, etc.

 

[Giygacoal]

Fox and Falco look sufficiently different when they are actually doing things.

 

[HyperrCrow]

whoa I didnt knew about that (melee falco being the initial step for project M).- ok that is strong point to keep falco moveset looking like fox moveset, ok they play different, but for the eye, they look the same,. but if falco was the beggining of project M, then he wont be changed, ever
-_-, but roy is another story, his moveset was actually changed, it can be seen on his trailer, maybe Roy character was asking for a moveset modiffication, since Gamecube Melee game..

Are you a native English speaker? If so pleeeeeeeeeease fix your grammar dude, it hurts me to even try to read your sentences.
Anyways it sounds like you're upset about Roy being de-cloned (?). I don't understand why changing a character to play better is a bad thing in your eyes.
The matter is, Falco plays great even with having a cloned moveset, Roy didn't play that smooth with his cloned moveset which is why he had to be changed.

 

[Phaiyte]

Just by using the word "clone" in the manner that you did, I and many others can now tell that you know absolutely nothing about this game. There's nothing really wrong with that, but, you should probably be a little more informed before posting ridiculous comedy rants.

 

[Nausicaa]

You know what I'm stoked for?

ROY IN PROJECT: M 3.0

 

[QQQQQQQ7777777]

You know what I'm stoked for?

ROY IN PROJECT: M 3.0

You know what I`m stoked for?

Spoiler

PICHU IN PROJECT M 3.5

 

[Alm5252]

I been wondering, how much different would it be if Falco used his vBrawl N-Air to replace his PM F-Air? They are both mutiple hitting moves. It would just be him using his arms instead of his feet. Just wondering. If it would work, would be nice to implement. Could bring new strategies? I don't know how many people use his Melee / PM helicopter kick. (Haven't really watched Pro Falco players) I always used his vBrawl N-Air in Brawl though.

 

[Nausicaa]

His Brawl aerials are sweet, but I wouldn't be up for simply tossing out F-Air for them. I love F-Air, and it's a great tool that a significant enough part of my game works around to not want to lose it simply for the sake of something new. Falco-meta-game is decently flushed out, and a great backbone of both measurement in the development of the REST of the game, as well as how he develops AS a flushed-out character in a NEW game. Taking niche-pieces of this apart is asking for trouble in the long-haul.
If it ain't broke, don't fix it.
Falco might have something broke about him, it's NOT F-Air.

 

[Alm5252]

His Brawl aerials are sweet, but I wouldn't be up for simply tossing out F-Air for them. I love F-Air, and it's a great tool that a significant enough part of my game works around to not want to lose it simply for the sake of something new. Falco-meta-game is decently flushed out, and a great backbone of both measurement in the development of the REST of the game, as well as how he develops AS a flushed-out character in a NEW game. Taking niche-pieces of this apart is asking for trouble in the long-haul.
If it ain't broke, don't fix it.
Falco might have something broke about him, it's NOT F-Air.

Cool, didn't know it was useful. I've never really used his or Fox's F-Air much compared to Falco's vBrawl N-Air and Fox's vBrawl rising F-Air.

The fact that it has a place is fine by me. Gotta see how to use it now. Lol

 

[Nausicaa]

I'll find a sexy combo and link it for you for context.
Here's your Falco for you.
Do you want a Fox, or get the idea?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8iTKxosywts#t=7m55s

 

[Generically Epic]

I'm not opposed to them keeping some of the brawl animations for some of the attacks. Some of the v brawl animations were just better from a stylistic standpoint; it felt much more bird like.
I mean, one thing they could do is use his brawl B down as a taunt (he kicks the reflector around, like the normal taunt, then he kicks it forward like his vbrawl attack).
The reflector taunt (the reflector attack would be fast though) would be REALLY slow, like a 1/4 speed battle when ganon using a warlock punch slow... or mario screwing up a taunt cancel slow. But if someone pulled it off, it would be part of that sexy style falco is known for.
Stuff like changing the color of his lazor, and reflector are also cool little effects you can use to differentiate characters.
However, since I do not main Falco my opinion should not count for anything.

But really, Falco players deserve their falco in it's entirety.


Ganon on the other hand, I support them changing all of his animations to feel different. Ganon's moves should have been given to black shadow... ><;

 

[Renji64]

Brawl falco was terrible it it sucks how people can't see how different they play. I don't get why people complain about this in smash then play games like SF with matches up like ryu/ken or other fighters.

 

[Nausicaa]

Or like League of Legends where you basically do the same thing with any 'champ' in their designated role.
Lame-games are lame-games for a reason.
SF4 has Ibuki. Who doesn't like getting sexy-time on with broken vortexes?
mmmm.... drool...

 

[Phaiyte]

Or like League of Legends where you basically do the same thing with any 'champ' in their designated role.
Lame-games are lame-games for a reason.
SF4 has Ibuki. Who doesn't like getting sexy-time on with broken vortexes?
mmmm.... drool...

Bronzie detected

 

[Alm5252]

I'll find a sexy combo and link it for you for context.
Here's your Falco for you.
Do you want a Fox, or get the idea?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8iTKxosywts#t=7m55s

Thanks, I get the idea. I'm gonna practice some more and see if I can incorporate that move into my playstyle.

 

[Nausicaa]

What's a Bronzie?

 

[Generically Epic]

Brawl falco was terrible it it sucks how people can't see how different they play. I don't get why people complain about this in smash then play games like SF with matches up like ryu/ken or other fighters.

Actually falco is one of the top tier characters in vbrawl... :I
But, still, i did prefer vbrawl's animations

 

[SmashShadow]

Personally, I'd like to see something similar to Falco's brawl nair as his forward air but with the same hitboxes.

 

[guedes the brawler]

well roy apart from his buffs, his moveset was changed mainly bc they were moves with no purpose, i mean heres what they changed (for the better)

-his bair: looks great and is extremely useful as a kill move, something that roy severely lacked in melee apart from his f-smash, which wasn't easy to hit with either

-parts of his front-b: mostly to give it other properties and to be a different than marth's aesthetic wise, you could say the same for fox/falco but they only have one move, while marth/roy share in entire combo with variations depending on where you move the control stick, so it would be ideal to give him his own finishers AND his dancing blade actually kills, which is more than marth can say

- F-tilt: changed it into a stab that helps him with his limited range, his melee f-tilt is garbage in every sense of the word, with this PM iteration you have the ability to shield stab, you can actually zone out characters that would normally kick your *** with projectiles or range like marth, and allows you to angle it like many other f-tilts, so its a huge step forward, not to mention it looks great

- down smash: it was actually ok in melee, but from what i can see this new roy d-smash is a lot faster, kills earlier, and is very pleasing to the eye

- Nair: in melee you could do single hit nairs to secure a d-tilt or grab, and you could also hit with both and it was ok, but PM apart from giving it a very cool graphical effect which stays true to his sword (as far i know he is the one who uses the fire emblem, which is his sword) and its a single hit (i think) that hits fast, if i'm mistaken and hits twice then all the better since it still packs more of a punch compared to melee

so yeah, the only useless things fox/falco have is their f-airs, and even then their are some players how use it to some extent, not alot mind you but i have seen it been used to grab, to wall, etc.

The fire emblem is not his sword...

 

[QQQQQQQ7777777]

The fire emblem is not his sword...

I think it would be funny to see him fight with that tiny thing

 

[Sixth-Sense]

The fire emblem is not his sword...

huge mistake, its the sword of seals

really don't know how i missed up that bad

 

[hand]

Yeah Fox and Falco look similar and play differently.
Same goes for Marth and Roy.
It is called Project Melee, already implying that their goal is to preserve Melee's signature.
If Roy was as amazing as Falco, Roy would also be in ProjectM without any changes.
However, Roy SUCKED!!
Balance issues man.
Characters, who need a makeover will get a makeover.

 

[Stunts]

Same but different.
Fox and falco has enough differences to alter their metagame and matchups noticeably.

this comes to mind

Spoiler

 

[trojanpooh]

So obviously people have gathered that the original post was kinda stupid and uneducated, but on a serious note, how do you think people would feel about changing up some of Falco's animations? Not necessarily to the Brawl ones, but in the same vain (making him look like a bird). They're doing it with Ganon (making him look like a bird), but is Falco too sacred? I'll reserve judgement till new Ganon comes out, but I can't imagine the new animations throwing me off too bad. Basically, is Falco too sacred?

 

[guedes the brawler]

So obviously people have gathered that the original post was kinda stupid and uneducated, but on a serious note, how do you think people would feel about changing up some of Falco's animations? Not necessarily to the Brawl ones, but in the same vain (making him look like a bird). They're doing it with Ganon (making him look like a bird), but is Falco too sacred? I'll reserve judgement till new Ganon comes out, but I can't imagine the new animations throwing me off too bad. Basically, is Falco too sacred?

Different Animations couldn't hurt unless they messed with the hitboxes... i mean, Clones have moves look the same but work differently, but if they suddenly look different too... how is that move a cloned thing again?


Though i know it goes against what Melee Falco was about, and what PM Falco is now, i think it would be interesting to have both kinds of reflectors implemented. Like, it would be just like how it was now, but if you flick the stick forward Falco will kick it. not sure how feasible that is, and how much the "new" reflector physics would change the Boomerang Reflector kick's usefulness.

do you guys think that the ability of kicking the reflector could enhance Falco in some way? Maybe it could be sped up to match the faster gameplay PM has? At the very least you could reflect some projectiles earlier, but this would be only very feasible with lots of prediction or slower projectiles like Aura Sphere and Charge Shot.

 

[hand]

Well, if it still knocks the foe up with tons of hitstun and is jumpcancelable it's definitely op :D

 

[Generically Epic]

So obviously people have gathered that the original post was kinda stupid and uneducated, but on a serious note, how do you think people would feel about changing up some of Falco's animations? Not necessarily to the Brawl ones, but in the same vain (making him look like a bird). They're doing it with Ganon (making him look like a bird), but is Falco too sacred? I'll reserve judgement till new Ganon comes out, but I can't imagine the new animations throwing me off too bad. Basically, is Falco too sacred?

For some of his moves, no. Brawl's A attack is just superior. I also think if you kept the F air's or nair properties from melee and replaced it with one of falco's vbrawl air animations, it would be alright. For example, taking the f airs vbrawl animation, and replacing the nair's animation but keeping the same properties would be cool.

 

[Kati]

Different Animations couldn't hurt unless they messed with the hitboxes... i mean, Clones have moves look the same but work differently, but if they suddenly look different too... how is that move a cloned thing again?


Though i know it goes against what Melee Falco was about, and what PM Falco is now, i think it would be interesting to have both kinds of reflectors implemented. Like, it would be just like how it was now, but if you flick the stick forward Falco will kick it. not sure how feasible that is, and how much the "new" reflector physics would change the Boomerang Reflector kick's usefulness.

do you guys think that the ability of kicking the reflector could enhance Falco in some way? Maybe it could be sped up to match the faster gameplay PM has? At the very least you could reflect some projectiles earlier, but this would be only very feasible with lots of prediction or slower projectiles like Aura Sphere and Charge Shot.

1) Falco doesn't need buffs.

2) kicking the reflector is worse than the default as pillaring assumes that the enemy is sent right above you. Kicking it forward also prevents the player from wavedashing backwards into someone and then shining them up.

@op

It is not a contradiction that Falco resembles Fox while Roy gets a revised moveset. Roy is Garbage in melee, Falco is not. Falco's brawl reflector NEVER found a balanced useful purpose in brawl+ which provided multiple public versions up to 7.0. Please people, stop questioning the design of a mod that is nearly three years old, and has had thought being put character design for even longer. If you are just a newly registered user, making a thread about clones, or l-cancelling or general critiques is not going to change anything.