Choosing a Secondary Main

[Tyr_03]

Now that some of the chaingrab panic has subsided it's time we start to think of options for counterpicks against Marth. This is not to say that matches between Marth and Lucas are impossible for Lucas. They're just more difficult than they used to be. It reminds me of an exxagerated match between Melee Fox and Marth only Lucas has nothing like the shinespike to help him out.

If the skill gap is great enough, Lucas is still going to beat Marth. But let's face it, in a tournament environment you're going to run into a Marth player of equal or greater skill than you and you're going to want a counterpick. Here are a few suggestions based on match ups I've done and what I've read on various character specific boards.

King Dedede
This is my personal choice. Dedede is pretty evenly matched against Marth. Dedede has a chaingrab on Marth (ironic I know) that can really help you out. It is escapable through Marth's Up B, but if you predict it you can give him a forward smash in the face. Dedede tends to deal moderately well with Marth's impressive air game and can spam his forward B for spacing. In addition, Dedede is a pretty flexible character. He handles some of the high ranked characters like Snake and MK pretty well although MK seems to be one of his more difficult matchups. He has chaingrab infinites on Bowser, DK, Luigi, Mario and Samus which can help you out if you happen to come across a player who's good with these characters.

Marth
Obviously Marth is going to be an even matchup against himself. Marth is a versatile character with a great air game and does well against most characters so you can use him for other matchups. He appears to have some trouble with MK but in general it's a pretty even match.

Snake
Snake is a wonderful character. He's currently doing amazing in tournaments. He does well against pretty much every character although I've heard he has some difficulties against Olimar. He handles Marth quite well. Overall just a good choice but realize that tons of people play him.

Metaknight
An all around great character. Edgeguarding is ridiculous with Metaknight. The Marth boards consider MK to be a difficult matchup. MK is currently top ranked for tournaments so he's going to do well against most characters. Very versatile.

Olimar
Somewhat of an eccentric character and takes a bit more work to use but could be very worth it in the long run. He tends to be about even with Marth but is extremely versatile against other characters. Hard to predict and fun to use.

Game and Watch
G and W is another one of those characters who just does well in this game. He can handle most matchups well. He has great tech chase abilities and can "combo" really well. He seems to be fairly even against Marth.

Wario
Wario is kind of strange to use but is surprisingly good. He's not quite as popular as some of the other characters doing well in tournaments right now so if you don't like the mainstream as much he might be a good choice. He is around even with Marth in most cases. Great recovery and aerials.

Wolf
Wolf has a nice projectile spam and generally can handle most matchups. I sometimes find him oddly similar to playing with Lucas. Just watch some Germ videos and you'll get some ideas on how to use him.

Toon Link
Toon Link has an aerial game which is about on par with Marth's and has some very nice projectiles that give Marth trouble. TL does well against a lot of characters due to his speed and versatility. Another good all around pick.

Obviously these are not the ONLY choices when picking a counter against Marth as a secondary main. These just seem to be some that do well against Marth and many other top ranked characters and may be good alternates for Lucas players. Feel free to try out other match ups against Marth and find out what works best for YOU.

 

[TechnoMonster]

Mr. Game and Watch is a buff dude against Marth for sure and is the easiest character to pick up in this game.

 

[Levitas]

G&W breaks shields with a turtle. He's got a color scheme in which he's completely doused in the blood of his enemies. he's got twice the amount of hammers as Dedede, and he can kill people with cake and/or a match.

He's also quite fun to play as.

 

[Mr.E]

I don't feel too strong with G&W being secondary to Lucas. He feels like a projectile-less Lucas to me. Both rely mainly on their strong aerial game (Dubya's BAir, Lucas' NAir/Fair) supplemented by powerful spacing (Manhole, Lucas' FTilt) and power (every Smash) on the ground. The Bucket works similarly to PSI Magnet, a non-reflecting deterrent to energy-based projectiles. And while Lucas doesn't have any BAD matchups, aside Marth, I'd look for someone else that has an easier time against some of the tougher opponents. Snake's Tilts wreck G&W. ~_~ Bucket kills Pit very early, though, if Pit keeps gimping you as Lucas.

That said, G&W is easy to pick up just because he's quite similar to Lucas and not difficult to learn in the first place. As long as your main doesn't suffer in the process, being proficient with more characters is always welcome.

I've taken up ROB myself since he just sorta clicked with me, but ROB does have even-to-advantaged matchups against both Marth and Snake and he's a heavy complement to Lucas's average weight.

With the ability for Dedede to chaingrab most of the cast and MK vs. Olimar being quite possibly the most lopsided match in the game, I would think at least learning to play both effectively would be a boon to anyone simply for counterpick capability. (Plus, MK is a top character as-is right now.)

 

[Natch]

I mained Pikachu for the longest time before falling in love with Lucas, so I think I'll just start using Pika again as a secondary. Also considering Kirby, oddly enough.

 

[PKboy89]

I use Diddy Kong, but Toon Link seems like a good choice. He's loaded with projectiles that pretty reach anyone from anywhere (Neutral stages at least) and since Lucas users are already used to pk fire techniques, using Toon Link's projectiles to their full extent shouldn't be a problem. I use Meta Knight also, and he is just a great character.

 

[NESSBOUNDER]

Consider Lucario. He has an even match up against Marth, and outranges/outprioritses almost everyone in the game, even those who have swords. His playing style takes a lot of getting used to, but once you get the correct mindset, he becomes very effective. He also has some nice perks against high-tier characters, such as being able to chain-throw Snake up until 70-80% at the beginning of a stock.

He has some of the best frame times in the game, as well as REAL mix ups thanks to his incredible jab cancel. His Ftilt and down air are total monster moves that can't really be powershielded and can be used for both offense and defense.

Lucario also has REAL combos. And quite a few of them too. Most of these deal upwards of 20% reliably each time, even when he's at 0%. And his aura modifier means that if he's behind by one stock, and his own damage is above 100%, he can KO in the early 60s against most mid-weight characters with a fully charged aura sphere. And when he's at equal stock, he can KO in the early hundreds when he's at 100% himself.

He's also incredibly versatile, having a good air and ground game. He has a vicious edgeguarding game too.

Don't be turned off by the fact that he seems to have no obvious and reliable KO moves. After playing him for a while, you realize that this really isn't a problem, and that his edge game and defensive power really make up for that.

Just be careful: you can't spam any of his smash attacks like you could for Lucas. And you are only going to KO in the 80s if you're good at getting off double team. However, his smash attacks have incredible range and the hitboxes linger, and they are almost completely lag-free after activation.

 

[Sans Glutin]

Wario isn't a good matchup against Marth I don't think. Wario is all about controlling the air with f-airs and d-airs (maybe some n-airs). Wario is a great character overall but his main weakness is practically no range except on his slow, laggish tilts.

Guess what Marth has. Range. Plus really good aerials so he will probably be controlling the air instead of you.

You should probably take Wario off your list, although he is a good character. Just not against Marth.

 

[Shibby]

Consider Lucario. He has an even match up against Marth, and outranges/outprioritses almost everyone in the game, even those who have swords. His playing style takes a lot of getting used to, but once you get the correct mindset, he becomes very effective. He also has some nice perks against high-tier characters, such as being able to chain-throw Snake up until 70-80% at the beginning of a stock.

He has some of the best frame times in the game, as well as REAL mix ups thanks to his incredible jab cancel. His Ftilt and down air are total monster moves that can't really be powershielded and can be used for both offense and defense.

Lucario also has REAL combos. And quite a few of them too. Most of these deal upwards of 20% reliably each time, even when he's at 0%. And his aura modifier means that if he's behind by one stock, and his own damage is above 100%, he can KO in the early 60s against most mid-weight characters with a fully charged aura sphere. And when he's at equal stock, he can KO in the early hundreds when he's at 100% himself.

He's also incredibly versatile, having a good air and ground game. He has a vicious edgeguarding game too.

Don't be turned off by the fact that he seems to have no obvious and reliable KO moves. After playing him for a while, you realize that this really isn't a problem, and that his edge game and defensive power really make up for that.

Just be careful: you can't spam any of his smash attacks like you could for Lucas. And you are only going to KO in the 80s if you're good at getting off double team. However, his smash attacks have incredible range and the hitboxes linger, and they are almost completely lag-free after activation.

I'm also giving Lucario a try.

I'll my main and secondary would be "Luca(s)"

 

[Tyr_03]

To a few of these comments. Wario is actually surprisingly good against Marth and a surprisingly good character in general. Also Wario's aerials are actually better than Marth's in most cases which takes out a lot of Marth's game. Check Ankoku's character rankings to see just how well he's doing in tournaments right now as well. A very underrated character in general. Based on what I've watched in tournament videos he does in fact do well against Marth.

I didn't include Lucario because I don't personally know a lot about the character, I have no seen many videos of Lucario playing higher ranked characters such as Marth in tournaments, and he was not mentioned in the Marth boards as an especially difficult or even matchup. Without data such as this it's hard for me to say how well he's going to do against Marth. Nessbounder, if you can offer specific attributes that make him especially even or good against Marth or can provide videos of high level players in which Lucario holds his own against Marth I'll consider adding him to the thread.

 

[redzoneNRG]

I use King Dedede against Marth usually. Also, I have a tendency to use Samus alot and it does well for me. Projectiles and set ups keep aggresive Marth players at bay.

Who not to use: Jigglypuff. Who I think is the worst match up against Marth in existance.

 

[BacklashMarth]

While Dx3 may be a good character to use against Marth, i actually wouldn't reccomend him. To play Dx3 well you need to play rather defensively or marth will counter you to death. This is not a good thing tho. Marth will just start using shieldbreaker on you till you lose your shield then crack you clear offstage with a tipper shieldbreaker. The waddle dees (doos and gordos) arent hard to avoid seeing how marth can jab at them or counter if he feels like it. If the chain grab is the only thing he has going for him, Dedede has practically lost the match. Not to discredit myself or anything but i say this because i havent seen an incredible dedede that a marth couldn't handle with the right strategy.

 

[Tyr_03]

^^^
lol watch M2K