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Chemotherapy and modern cancer treatment

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This is an issue that pisses me off. Not the mild annoyance I get with people arguing that Castle Siege needs to be banned. Not the grating and grinding that occurs when someone says "it's just a theory". No, this gets me really mad.

Why?

Because this shouldn't be a ****ing debate. So-called "conventional" cancer therapy works.

It's trivial to find studies comparing modern cancer death rates to those in the past. In fact, the SEER database has a huge page on statistics. Here's an example page, generated with the query "all cancer" and "5-year survival rate" (a common metric for cancer treatment). Notice how it's gone up in the last 40 years by 20%. That's pretty decent, given the difficulty of the problems we're facing. In fact, for specific cancers, it's actually considerably better than that. Breast cancer has gone from a 75% survival rate to a 90% survival rate in the last 40 years. Acute Lymphoblastomic Leukemia (ALL for short), a rare and very nasty form of childhood cancer, went from a 10% survival rate in the 60s to a 90% survival rate in the 2000s. Science, *******. It works.

This should instantly show just how false the claim that "cancer research is going nowhere" is - a popular claim by "alternative" health practitioners[*], who are apparently disappointed that we haven't solved one of the very hardest problems in medicine. More on them later.

Unfortunately, SEER only goes back to the 1970s. To go even further back, to before we had things like chemotherapy, you need other sources. Here's one comparing breast cancer survival rates in the 1920s to the 1980s. The result? Modern medicine works. Or, more directly, survival rates consistently and significantly rose.


Now what about altternatives? Things that aren't widely accepted, which claim to cure cancer "naturally". Things like Gerson therapy, or Antineoplasteon therapy, or certain diets? Well, turns out, they looked into that too.

The 5-year overall survival rates were 43.2% (95% CI: 32.0 to 54.4%) for those who refused standard treatments and 81.9% (95% CI: 76.9 to 86.9%) for those who received them.

[...]

Women who declined primary standard treatment had significantly worse survival than those who received standard treatments. There is no evidence to support using Complementary and Alternative Medicine (CAM) as primary cancer treatment.
In other words: those who turned away modern medicine in favor of "Alternative" cures died twice as often within 5 years as those who accepted the conventional standard.


Look, say what you will about pharmaceuticals having dodgey ethics, having questionable morals, overpricing their drugs to the point of insanity. The fact is, modern cancer treatment works, and chemotherapy is a key component of that. The data is overwhelming. If any alternative therapy had anywhere near the demonstrable efficacy of what we already use, we'd already be incorporating it into our therapies. To anyone who disagrees, spend an hour or so browsing the SEER database. It's really easy to find out how much better things have gotten for those who get cancer in the last few decades. Websites that claim that modern cancer treatments don't work, or can't be relied on, are lying to you.


[*]There is no such thing as "alternative" health. Remedies that work are adopted into mainstream medicine; those that are not become so-called "alternative" or "complementary" modalities that are sold to dupes. Things like homeopathy, reiki, acupuncture, and the like.
 

Claire Diviner

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Welp, I have nothing to debate here, seeing as I have nothing to disagree with in your OP. As a bit of a two cent donation, I will go on record and say that if I ever managed to find myself with cancer (or any illness for that matter), I'm taking the safest route by trusting chemo therapy/modern medicine. You don't see nearly as many people wearing T-shirts reading, "I kicked cancer's a**" using alternative medicine, no?

Whatever quarrel one may have with the pharmaceutical company needs to stop. Whether there is some weird money-making agenda or not, the result that their method is the best chance remains the same. It's better them than the quackery some so-called specialists claim to be effective.

Yes it works, and this shouldn't be a debate. So why post about it in debate hall?
Because believe it or not, there are people who would believe the contrary to Budget's point, and will probably argue to the death that modern medicine is wrong, even if it means dying whilst incorrect.
 
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Lichi

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I just doubt that you will get a meaningful debate out of a topic that, as stated, doesn't support multiple opinions, as only one is truly correct. The ones who would want to argue against facts will neither be swayed by them, nor will they deliver reasonable thoughts themselves. That's my prediction.
 

Claire Diviner

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Two reasons.

First: this.
Second: this.
I only skimmed the article in the second link, as it was too long for me to willingly read. That said, coffee enemas? Really? I mean, I love me some coffee, but in no way would I shove anything like that up my rear. Hell, if this is just one of the many "alternative medicine" methods out there, that further solidifies my wanting nothing to do with it (not that I'd ever be tempted, mind you).

I don't want to make waves, but she earned her death. I mean, really? Folgers up the poop shoot?!
 

Lichi

This is my war snarl
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@ Claire Diviner Claire Diviner
this must have been some kind of reverse homeopathy - if you wish to inject coffee into your body, you must put it where under normal circumstances brown 'beans' would leave your body.

At least, I had a good laugh.
 
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I just doubt that you will get a meaningful debate out of a topic that, as stated, doesn't support multiple opinions, as only one is truly correct. The ones who would want to argue against facts will neither be swayed by them, nor will they deliver reasonable thoughts themselves. That's my prediction.
It's like a debate about creationism. You don't debate it because you think you're going to convince the creationist. You do it because the people listening in - the people on the fence who are watching - can gain quite a bit from it. You're not going to convince, say, Ken Ham that his beliefs are stupid. He's dedicated his life to those beliefs, and he makes his career out of it. What you might do is convince people in the audience that Ken Ham's beliefs are stupid, and that there may be something wrong with believing him.
 
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