Iceman12
Smash Journeyman
More melee matches from moi for you to enjoy, still a few to be uploaded. Melee, all day, everyday.
http://www.youtube.com/user/CoOpdogz
http://www.youtube.com/user/CoOpdogz
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Check out/eval my Falcon
- Thread starter Iceman12
- Start date
JonaDiaper
Smash Champion
glad to see your not a total noob. so you can jc grab which is good. your moonwalk attempts were so bad man i had to laugh when i saw them. anyways,like you said lesssss rolling almost to the point of no rolling. when you shffl attack and you hit his shield dont roll back. if your going to go back atleast wavedash back. learn to DI your nairs so you dont go straight forward, make it so your momentum goes backwards as you go forwards. get me? as for dairs, there so great against fox/falco. everytime you techchased you tried to grab, instead of a knee or stomp. work on the gentleman, you didnt do it in either vid. i only saw two tilts. an up and down tilt. side tilts are the besssst. especially angled down. i dont know why but i love them. umm when you knee fox, if you fast fall and l cancel it right, you can keep running and do a jc grab. play against fox computers and see. its so much ****. umm i think thats about it
EDIT: oh and i dont know how to explain it but learn to wavedash alot while you run around. its so confusing for the opponents. watch this vid of me just messing around
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tHvMjgvUvxY
oh and WATCH SCAR VIDEOS. hes the man right now.
EDIT: oh and i dont know how to explain it but learn to wavedash alot while you run around. its so confusing for the opponents. watch this vid of me just messing around
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tHvMjgvUvxY
oh and WATCH SCAR VIDEOS. hes the man right now.
Iceman12
Smash Journeyman
Yea, my moonwalks are pretty bad still ;x. Watch some of the other vids in my channel, there a little better I think. There's a couple vids I want to put up that are on the back end of the dvd that did not get ripped to avi, so Im trying to get those up somehow ;p. My personal favorite of the ones uploaded so far is the one on DK64 vs Link.
http://www.youtube.com/user/CoOpdogz
http://www.youtube.com/user/CoOpdogz
UberBlackCleric
Smash Cadet
- Joined
- Sep 16, 2007
- Messages
- 57
As is always the case, NEEDS MOAR KNEES!!!
Also, tell your friend that Yoshi can gain a little extra recovery hight by Air dodging up >_>
Also, tell your friend that Yoshi can gain a little extra recovery hight by Air dodging up >_>
elvenarrow3000
Smash Master
- Joined
- Jul 22, 2007
- Messages
- 3,308
Okay, let's see...
You're trying to grab too much. It's a good idea to grab, but most of the time you're just standing there and hoping he'll run into the grab.
Falcon has no business staying up on a platform. Especially not with Fox under him. Get outta there ASAP. You don't have to drop through, just running off the side works too.
Dash dancing when you techchase helps a lot. I'm really not sure why, as it doesn't seem like it would, but it does.
You're messing up some of your L-cancels. Remember, you don't have to hold the shield button, just tap it.
1:23 I'm not sure what you were doing there with the shield... trying to wavedash or something? Anyway, you can actually Raptor Boost at him and if you hit the tree before you fall over, there's no lag, even if you miss. It's pretty cool, I guess.
1:26 You could've charged a dsmash. No where he really could have teched to avoid it.
I think you're messing up a lot of your wavedashes... might want to work on that.
If you could ledgehop nairs, there were a few times where you should've. Jumping off the ledge is pretty laggy. If you can't ledgehop nairs, you should learn.
1:45 The walljump was so unnecessary. It's cool, but he probably wouldn't have fulljumped there anyway. Avoid doing stuff like that.
Yeah, cut down on the dash attacks... speaking of dashing, you can actually foxtrot in alternating directions for a longer dashdance, which is useful for mindgames.
It doesn't seem like you're really comboing. I guess in part it's because you're shielding after your L-cancels, which bogs your fluidity down, but outside of techchase grabs, you're playing a poke war. After nairs you can uair or stomp or Raptor Boost to set up for the knee. Falcon is all about comboing into the knee and you're not doing that enough.
Learning to Gentleman would be good too.
Second match!
0:24 Good save, but try not to be in that position in the first place =P
0:34 If he bounces that far, dash dance after him. You should start out by dashing towards him, so if he rolls away, you can just keep running and grab him and if he rolls towards you, you can just turn and grab him. If he's getting up in place, shield (you can shield to cancel a dash or run) and shieldgrab him, whether he uses his get up attack or not.
0:38 You should've stomped him, or at least wavedashed/walked forward so you could hit him with the utilt. You've got the right idea though, the utilt is a pretty good edgeguard. Dtilt at those percentages could maybe set up for something else too.
0:43 Why not just doublejump to grab the ledge?
...you need to stop suiciding with the Raptor Boost. Just... don't use it unless you're going towards the middle of the stage or if you're absolutely sure it'll hit.
Don't be afraid to edgeguard aggressively. Fox's recovery is relatively low priority and you should be able to cut through it with most attacks.
Work on your DI a little. It'll help you survive a lot longer, especially as Falcon.
Against Fox, random shffl'd knees rarely work. His nair and bair will almost always beat you out. Try nairs instead. On a stage like Dreamland 64, you've got a lot of area to move, so use it. JC grabs are good and all, but they don't cover a lot of area and so they'll slow your Falcon down.
So yeah... Gentleman, shffl's, wavedashing, ledgehops and DI. That's what you should be working on. You might want to mix up the recovery too with some airdodges or whatever.
EDIT:
Ummm... so... in response to JonaDiaper.
The ftilt is okay... I personally don't find it as useful as the dtilt or the utilt. Really, it seems more like the poor man's Gentleman.
Yes you can knee into a grab, but that's only at like... less than ten percent.
And yeah, you can techchase into a stomp, but stomping as an approach tends to not work so well because of Fox's two sex kicks.
You're trying to grab too much. It's a good idea to grab, but most of the time you're just standing there and hoping he'll run into the grab.
Falcon has no business staying up on a platform. Especially not with Fox under him. Get outta there ASAP. You don't have to drop through, just running off the side works too.
Dash dancing when you techchase helps a lot. I'm really not sure why, as it doesn't seem like it would, but it does.
You're messing up some of your L-cancels. Remember, you don't have to hold the shield button, just tap it.
1:23 I'm not sure what you were doing there with the shield... trying to wavedash or something? Anyway, you can actually Raptor Boost at him and if you hit the tree before you fall over, there's no lag, even if you miss. It's pretty cool, I guess.
1:26 You could've charged a dsmash. No where he really could have teched to avoid it.
I think you're messing up a lot of your wavedashes... might want to work on that.
If you could ledgehop nairs, there were a few times where you should've. Jumping off the ledge is pretty laggy. If you can't ledgehop nairs, you should learn.
1:45 The walljump was so unnecessary. It's cool, but he probably wouldn't have fulljumped there anyway. Avoid doing stuff like that.
Yeah, cut down on the dash attacks... speaking of dashing, you can actually foxtrot in alternating directions for a longer dashdance, which is useful for mindgames.
It doesn't seem like you're really comboing. I guess in part it's because you're shielding after your L-cancels, which bogs your fluidity down, but outside of techchase grabs, you're playing a poke war. After nairs you can uair or stomp or Raptor Boost to set up for the knee. Falcon is all about comboing into the knee and you're not doing that enough.
Learning to Gentleman would be good too.
Second match!
0:24 Good save, but try not to be in that position in the first place =P
0:34 If he bounces that far, dash dance after him. You should start out by dashing towards him, so if he rolls away, you can just keep running and grab him and if he rolls towards you, you can just turn and grab him. If he's getting up in place, shield (you can shield to cancel a dash or run) and shieldgrab him, whether he uses his get up attack or not.
0:38 You should've stomped him, or at least wavedashed/walked forward so you could hit him with the utilt. You've got the right idea though, the utilt is a pretty good edgeguard. Dtilt at those percentages could maybe set up for something else too.
0:43 Why not just doublejump to grab the ledge?
...you need to stop suiciding with the Raptor Boost. Just... don't use it unless you're going towards the middle of the stage or if you're absolutely sure it'll hit.
Don't be afraid to edgeguard aggressively. Fox's recovery is relatively low priority and you should be able to cut through it with most attacks.
Work on your DI a little. It'll help you survive a lot longer, especially as Falcon.
Against Fox, random shffl'd knees rarely work. His nair and bair will almost always beat you out. Try nairs instead. On a stage like Dreamland 64, you've got a lot of area to move, so use it. JC grabs are good and all, but they don't cover a lot of area and so they'll slow your Falcon down.
So yeah... Gentleman, shffl's, wavedashing, ledgehops and DI. That's what you should be working on. You might want to mix up the recovery too with some airdodges or whatever.
EDIT:
Ummm... so... in response to JonaDiaper.
The ftilt is okay... I personally don't find it as useful as the dtilt or the utilt. Really, it seems more like the poor man's Gentleman.
Yes you can knee into a grab, but that's only at like... less than ten percent.
And yeah, you can techchase into a stomp, but stomping as an approach tends to not work so well because of Fox's two sex kicks.
Iceman12
Smash Journeyman
Thanks for the tips, and yea Im screwing up my wavedashes with Falcon because Im used to Marths long wavedash and its different timing with Falcon. I do ledgehop nairs quite a bit, just those were like the first 2 matches we played all day so we weren't warmed up or anything(no johns I know xoxo).
elvenarrow3000
Smash Master
- Joined
- Jul 22, 2007
- Messages
- 3,308
I dunno how useful Falcon's wavedash is... seems like most of the time you shouldn't be that close anyway and if you were you could just dashdance instead. But that's just me.
Haha, I know what you mean though. Whenever I get nervous or rusty, ledgehops always the first thing I start screwing up, which is strange, because they're not that hard to do. Oh well.
Haha, I know what you mean though. Whenever I get nervous or rusty, ledgehops always the first thing I start screwing up, which is strange, because they're not that hard to do. Oh well.
JonaDiaper
Smash Champion
falcon is all about getting up in the other guys face. dash dancing is not as quick as a wavedash back. f tilt is awesome for pressure. like jab jab f tilt. if there still sheilding you should start doing jab, knee, gentlemen. its all about pressure. but being overly, like, wats the word, reckless. just dont be that. use pressure but dont be reckless. and know how to space your nairs so you dont get shield grabbed.
elvenarrow3000
Smash Master
- Joined
- Jul 22, 2007
- Messages
- 3,308
Your wavedash back isn't going to give you that much breathing room though, whereas dashdancing is a lot more variable and it definitely can be faster.
In any case, you can't avoid a shieldgrab after jabs or ftilt, so I don't really see where your argument is coming from...
And if they're constantly trying to shieldgrab, just fly past their shield with stomps, it's a lot easier.
In any case, you can't avoid a shieldgrab after jabs or ftilt, so I don't really see where your argument is coming from...
And if they're constantly trying to shieldgrab, just fly past their shield with stomps, it's a lot easier.
JonaDiaper
Smash Champion
=O f tilt is way out of the range if a shield grab. unless were talking about samus or the links. and a wavedash back gives you a perfect amount of space to shffl another move towards them.
elvenarrow3000
Smash Master
- Joined
- Jul 22, 2007
- Messages
- 3,308
They could always shield it and wavedash forward into a grab. Besides, if you're jabbing their shield twice first, you're definitely in range for a shield grab.
I don't see the advantage of wavedashing back, really. It implies that you're standing still (which you really shouldn't be as Falcon) and it really doesn't cover that much ground. Falcon's wavedash doesn't send you very far at all.
I don't see the advantage of wavedashing back, really. It implies that you're standing still (which you really shouldn't be as Falcon) and it really doesn't cover that much ground. Falcon's wavedash doesn't send you very far at all.
JonaDiaper
Smash Champion
are you really any good with falcon? or are you just talking about what you imagine could happen. like your playing the game in your mind. i used to do that. talk without knowing. i guess i could say for ME wavedashing backwards is always good. puts you out of reach of a grab, still in range for a ftilt, or your arials. but hey, i only did that today about 1500 times. and it worked 1500 times. but what do i know.
UberBlackCleric
Smash Cadet
- Joined
- Sep 16, 2007
- Messages
- 57
Am I the only one who likes Jab, Jab, Utilt mindgames? People are always expecting a Gentleman and either try and spot dodge or shield grab and both are usually beaten by a Utilt(Except tether grabs and ****ING MARTH 
)
)
battousai555
Smash Ace
I'd love to see some examples of pro falcon players doing this. In every pro falcon vid I've seen there were many dash-dances and very few wavedashes.
elvenarrow3000
Smash Master
- Joined
- Jul 22, 2007
- Messages
- 3,308
Cheese and rice, JonaDiaper, calm down. Being more angry doesn't make you more right.
I think you're contradicting yourself though. For one, I really doubt you've wavedashed back to avoid an attack 1500 times in one day, and if you did, the person you were playing has to be pretty bad to fall for it 1500 times without fail.
Secondly, you said that Falcons have to be in their opponent's faces. I agree, but if you're wavedashing back, it means you were standing there waiting for an attack, making you reactive, not proactive, and you can't really be reactively in someone's face, by definition.
Next, ftilt. It hits frame nine to frame eleven, lasting twenty-nine frames with six frames of hitstun and twelve frames of shieldstun, assuming it hasn't been diminished at all, according to Phanna and SuperDoodleMan. Falcon's fastest options to stuff a grab are his jab and spotdodge, both of which take effect on frame three. Assuming that you space it perfectly to hit with the last possible frame, that means:
(total frames - last hit frame) - (shieldstun - hitstun) + frames before action = frames of vulnerability
(29 - 11) - (12 - 6) + 2
= 18 - 6 + 2
= 14
Since most characters' standing grabs come out at seven frames (there are some exceptions like Link and Zelda at eleven, Samus and Yoshi at eighteen) I think it's pretty safe to say that they can grab you.
Okay, let's say you're out of their grab range. They still have fourteen frames to do something. Sheik leaves the ground on frame four and her slap comes out on frame five. That means she has a five frame window of error to jump out of shield and hit you. Marth leaves the ground on frame five and his fair comes out on frame four. Same window. You're not going to escape punishment, really.
And anyway, even if you connect with the ftilt and get away with it, what happens? You don't really gain anything other than a hit on their shield. If you manage to hit them, you get an ftilt that doesn't really combo into anything.
So please, don't say I'm speaking without knowing. It's pretty offensive and ignorant of you.
I think you're contradicting yourself though. For one, I really doubt you've wavedashed back to avoid an attack 1500 times in one day, and if you did, the person you were playing has to be pretty bad to fall for it 1500 times without fail.
Secondly, you said that Falcons have to be in their opponent's faces. I agree, but if you're wavedashing back, it means you were standing there waiting for an attack, making you reactive, not proactive, and you can't really be reactively in someone's face, by definition.
Next, ftilt. It hits frame nine to frame eleven, lasting twenty-nine frames with six frames of hitstun and twelve frames of shieldstun, assuming it hasn't been diminished at all, according to Phanna and SuperDoodleMan. Falcon's fastest options to stuff a grab are his jab and spotdodge, both of which take effect on frame three. Assuming that you space it perfectly to hit with the last possible frame, that means:
(total frames - last hit frame) - (shieldstun - hitstun) + frames before action = frames of vulnerability
(29 - 11) - (12 - 6) + 2
= 18 - 6 + 2
= 14
Since most characters' standing grabs come out at seven frames (there are some exceptions like Link and Zelda at eleven, Samus and Yoshi at eighteen) I think it's pretty safe to say that they can grab you.
Okay, let's say you're out of their grab range. They still have fourteen frames to do something. Sheik leaves the ground on frame four and her slap comes out on frame five. That means she has a five frame window of error to jump out of shield and hit you. Marth leaves the ground on frame five and his fair comes out on frame four. Same window. You're not going to escape punishment, really.
And anyway, even if you connect with the ftilt and get away with it, what happens? You don't really gain anything other than a hit on their shield. If you manage to hit them, you get an ftilt that doesn't really combo into anything.
So please, don't say I'm speaking without knowing. It's pretty offensive and ignorant of you.
JonaDiaper
Smash Champion
=O i didnt read any of that, but ill assume you know what your talkin about.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hGdNWYMNa-4 x]
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hGdNWYMNa-4 x]
Iceman12
Smash Journeyman
bump, more matches uploaded. check my channel. Its in original post.
DippnDots
Feral Youth
It's so sad how now that this forum is dead, of the two people posting advice, one has no idea what he's talking about and the other doesn't play this game with the right mindset.
JonaDiaper
Smash Champion
am i the one with the wrong mindset?
Iceman12
Smash Journeyman
Who exactly is the one with the wrong mindset? What do you mean by that?
JonaDiaper
Smash Champion
i dont know. im waiting to see this fools opinion. hopefully im not the one that doesnt know how to play cuz then you know this guy is full of issshhhh
Iceman12
Smash Journeyman
I think he's full of it anyways ;p.
AceDudeyeah
Smash Ace
Elven has critiqued my Marth before. He seems pretty knowledgeable in Marth advice. Apparently I just saw him in the Falco and Falcon boards today, meaning he knows them too.
Side note- Elven! I got a vid of my captain falcon. I think he's got less errors than my Marth. Here, http://smashboards.com/showthread.php?t=176203
Side note- Elven! I got a vid of my captain falcon. I think he's got less errors than my Marth. Here, http://smashboards.com/showthread.php?t=176203
elvenarrow3000
Smash Master
- Joined
- Jul 22, 2007
- Messages
- 3,308
Wow. Drive by trolling. Wouldja look at that.
Although admittedly, my Falcon's not great. I main Sheik and Marth, so I guess I'll stick to them.
Although admittedly, my Falcon's not great. I main Sheik and Marth, so I guess I'll stick to them.
DippnDots
Feral Youth
Instead of taking insult to my statement you should think about why I said it 
JD, I made my comment after watching the videos of your falcon, and I stand by saying you don't know what you're talking about, simply because something works against your friends doesn't mean it'll work in a tournament. Wavedashing isn't used very often with falcon because dash dancing is faster, as you can pivot anything out of it. But the reason I said you don't know what your talking about is because I can tell from your videos that you are just spamming ****, flaunting off your tech skill, and then if you are lucky enough to get a combo starting hit off you can perform a combo that you've obviously practiced over and over. What I mean to say is, you don't really seem to pay any attention to your opponent and seem more focused on your own.
Elvenarrow, I claimed you aren't playing the game with the right mindset because when you critique people you tell them exactly what they did wrong at each instance. However, this has little actual relevence, what you should be focusing more on when critiquing people isn't how well their technical ability is, or how many mistakes they make, rather, you want to try to understand their style of play and give them advice on how to change it to a more tournament efficient style, understand what I'm saying? I suppose I should have said, one doesn't critique the effective way.
Edit: Also Elven, I have to disagree with some advice you gave. Getting a grab in on fox can give you a free stock most of the time if you play it right. Tech chasing with Falcon is easier than taking candy from a limbless baby.
To actually be relevant to this thread, I thought I'd add that a nice timed utilt will end any edge guarding problems with fox.
I'd like to add that what I said was not meant to be an insult, merely an observation from my point of view, someone with more tournament experience than both of you. This may come off as harsh, but I'm just a blunt person, don't take it personally.
JD, I made my comment after watching the videos of your falcon, and I stand by saying you don't know what you're talking about, simply because something works against your friends doesn't mean it'll work in a tournament. Wavedashing isn't used very often with falcon because dash dancing is faster, as you can pivot anything out of it. But the reason I said you don't know what your talking about is because I can tell from your videos that you are just spamming ****, flaunting off your tech skill, and then if you are lucky enough to get a combo starting hit off you can perform a combo that you've obviously practiced over and over. What I mean to say is, you don't really seem to pay any attention to your opponent and seem more focused on your own.
Elvenarrow, I claimed you aren't playing the game with the right mindset because when you critique people you tell them exactly what they did wrong at each instance. However, this has little actual relevence, what you should be focusing more on when critiquing people isn't how well their technical ability is, or how many mistakes they make, rather, you want to try to understand their style of play and give them advice on how to change it to a more tournament efficient style, understand what I'm saying? I suppose I should have said, one doesn't critique the effective way.
Edit: Also Elven, I have to disagree with some advice you gave. Getting a grab in on fox can give you a free stock most of the time if you play it right. Tech chasing with Falcon is easier than taking candy from a limbless baby.
To actually be relevant to this thread, I thought I'd add that a nice timed utilt will end any edge guarding problems with fox.
I'd like to add that what I said was not meant to be an insult, merely an observation from my point of view, someone with more tournament experience than both of you. This may come off as harsh, but I'm just a blunt person, don't take it personally.
JonaDiaper
Smash Champion
=O hardly use wavedashing???? to me its better then dding but whatever. im like slient wolf =P i use alot of tech skill when i play cuz its flashy AND confusing. and i dont have a combo that i perform over and over? i go along with what i think will work. =/ makes me sad, do you have any vids up? about falcon preferably. i would like to see your work with him. maybe i could learn something.
elvenarrow3000
Smash Master
- Joined
- Jul 22, 2007
- Messages
- 3,308
In my defense, I meant more that he was trying to grab in situations where he wouldn't get a grab off. But yeah, sorry, I was a little quick to take offense, sorry if I was too snappy.
I dunno... I'm pretty knew at this giving advice thing... I'll take what you say to note.
I dunno... I'm pretty knew at this giving advice thing... I'll take what you say to note.
Iceman12
Smash Journeyman
Now that that little dispute is resolved, I have a bunch of new vids uploaded, they are a lot better than the first ones I uploaded.
http://www.youtube.com/user/CoOpdogz
http://www.youtube.com/user/CoOpdogz
elvenarrow3000
Smash Master
- Joined
- Jul 22, 2007
- Messages
- 3,308
I'm just going to watch the newest match you posted.
Woah, you've gotten better. I like the dash dancing, but you can always extend it and change the timing a little to mess with the spacing, which is pretty important, especially against Marth.
Try dthrowing Marth at 70ish % instead of fthrowing, it's a safer knee. Also, I think you can chainthrow Marth for a bit with JC grabs and dthrows, but it's probably break outable.
Don't be afraid of Marth if he's on a platform above you, just hit him with a shffl'd uair.
Try not to roll into Marth too much... he's got enough range without you moving into him.
You're rushing in a little too much... try waiting for him to whiff something first.
One of the things I've noticed is that you're ending combos too fast into knees or pauses to wait for him to do something. It's good that you're looking for knees, but you really shouldn't be trying to finish your combo until they're at sixty or seventy percent, especially near the center of the stage.
Try using your uairs to extend your combos. They launch forward and up, unlike the dair, so they don't have a chance to tech and they're a little easier to land than nairs, as long as your opponent is stunned. They're also really fast. You can throw in a few Raptor Boosts too when they're close to the ground and you don't think you can make it otherwise.
You should also watch your opponent carefully. If you'll noticed a lot of his aerials - mostly his fairs - either aren't fastfalled or are just otherwise done really high in the air, and he doesn't use the second fair. So punish him for that as you see fit. A dair works well.
You're having a lot of trouble recovering, which is understandable since he's Marth and you're Falcon. I like that you're trying to fake up out with high recoveries, but Marth's fsmash arc is just... ridiculous and it's hard to get around. It's best to just sweetspot it and try to ledgetech if you get hit.
Motion mines on the ledge can help you learn the motion. Just hit R twenty frames before the tech and ASDI or SDI against the ledge to hit the ledgetech. As Marth, I can't get past 56% without SDI but that might just be Marth. You can hold up to walljump too.
Woah, you've gotten better. I like the dash dancing, but you can always extend it and change the timing a little to mess with the spacing, which is pretty important, especially against Marth.
Try dthrowing Marth at 70ish % instead of fthrowing, it's a safer knee. Also, I think you can chainthrow Marth for a bit with JC grabs and dthrows, but it's probably break outable.
Don't be afraid of Marth if he's on a platform above you, just hit him with a shffl'd uair.
Try not to roll into Marth too much... he's got enough range without you moving into him.
You're rushing in a little too much... try waiting for him to whiff something first.
One of the things I've noticed is that you're ending combos too fast into knees or pauses to wait for him to do something. It's good that you're looking for knees, but you really shouldn't be trying to finish your combo until they're at sixty or seventy percent, especially near the center of the stage.
Try using your uairs to extend your combos. They launch forward and up, unlike the dair, so they don't have a chance to tech and they're a little easier to land than nairs, as long as your opponent is stunned. They're also really fast. You can throw in a few Raptor Boosts too when they're close to the ground and you don't think you can make it otherwise.
You should also watch your opponent carefully. If you'll noticed a lot of his aerials - mostly his fairs - either aren't fastfalled or are just otherwise done really high in the air, and he doesn't use the second fair. So punish him for that as you see fit. A dair works well.
You're having a lot of trouble recovering, which is understandable since he's Marth and you're Falcon. I like that you're trying to fake up out with high recoveries, but Marth's fsmash arc is just... ridiculous and it's hard to get around. It's best to just sweetspot it and try to ledgetech if you get hit.
Motion mines on the ledge can help you learn the motion. Just hit R twenty frames before the tech and ASDI or SDI against the ledge to hit the ledgetech. As Marth, I can't get past 56% without SDI but that might just be Marth. You can hold up to walljump too.
Iceman12
Smash Journeyman
New vids uploaded to channel, sweetness~.
elvenarrow3000
Smash Master
- Joined
- Jul 22, 2007
- Messages
- 3,308
>_< I don't remember which ones I've watched. No, that's a lie. I'm too lazy. So I'm just going to critique... the Falcon vs Doc on Dreamland.
Okay, to start off, you should know your opponent's options as well as your own. As soon as the stage comes into view, you should know where your opponent is and where you are and have a plan of attack in mind.
In this case, I would've gone for a dashing shffl'd uair or something like that to hit him from under the platform. He has a few options to defend against that, which would be to jump or shield (both of which wouldn't take anything away from you) or to drop into a nair or dair, which would trade hits with your uair, and the uair does more damage and is easier to combo out of. Wavedashing back into pill range is a bad idea.
I like your new comboing mentality. It's more aggressive and confident, which is good. I still don't like the way you're not ledgehopping nairs aggressively, but... eh.
At 0:30 when you're recovering that high, you should airdodge or attack to cover yourself. A stomp would've worked nicely. It's unexpected, combos well and would... yeah, cover for your high recovery.
I like that you're using the Raptor Boost, but don't overdo it. It's fairly laggy at the end if you miss, so you should really try to land it more when you're more sure you'll land it, like for a techchase or something like that.
When you're recovering close to the stage, I know it's tempting to doublejump immediately for the edge, but it's not always a good idea, especially when your opponent is following you out like that. Falcon's third jump is not that great and when you're too low to use your Falcon Kick to refresh your second jump, you really need to save it. Fastfall under him and go for the ledge or something. You'll be gimped a lot less if you recover more cautiously.
It looks like you're holding the shield button too long for some of your L-cancels. Not too much to be said there, just practice and work on the timing. There are a few times where you could've continued the combo but ended up rolling instead. Okay one time so far, but I'm assuming it happens more than that.
When you're in a defensive mindset, always be prepared to go back on the offensive at a moment's notice. Falcon doesn't do well as a defensive character. Actually I dunno if anyone does...
Anyway, if your opponent messes up spacing and misses an attack, jump backwards and shffl a stomp at him. You want to keep your opponent on the back foot as much as possible, where he has fewer options.
So yeah, in conclusion... work a little on your recovery. I know Falcon can't sweetspot and whatever, but you never even tried to sweetspot with... Falcon Dive. Whatever it's called. The up-B. As such, I'm not sure what you're afraid of from this Doc, but if you learn to ledgetech and mix up your recovery, you should be okay with the attempted sweetspot most of the time and it'll be safer and more consistent. Your combo ability is doing well, and with more experience and proper L-cancels, it'll be even better.
Kudos though, your Falcon is definitely getting better.
Okay, to start off, you should know your opponent's options as well as your own. As soon as the stage comes into view, you should know where your opponent is and where you are and have a plan of attack in mind.
In this case, I would've gone for a dashing shffl'd uair or something like that to hit him from under the platform. He has a few options to defend against that, which would be to jump or shield (both of which wouldn't take anything away from you) or to drop into a nair or dair, which would trade hits with your uair, and the uair does more damage and is easier to combo out of. Wavedashing back into pill range is a bad idea.
I like your new comboing mentality. It's more aggressive and confident, which is good. I still don't like the way you're not ledgehopping nairs aggressively, but... eh.
At 0:30 when you're recovering that high, you should airdodge or attack to cover yourself. A stomp would've worked nicely. It's unexpected, combos well and would... yeah, cover for your high recovery.
I like that you're using the Raptor Boost, but don't overdo it. It's fairly laggy at the end if you miss, so you should really try to land it more when you're more sure you'll land it, like for a techchase or something like that.
When you're recovering close to the stage, I know it's tempting to doublejump immediately for the edge, but it's not always a good idea, especially when your opponent is following you out like that. Falcon's third jump is not that great and when you're too low to use your Falcon Kick to refresh your second jump, you really need to save it. Fastfall under him and go for the ledge or something. You'll be gimped a lot less if you recover more cautiously.
It looks like you're holding the shield button too long for some of your L-cancels. Not too much to be said there, just practice and work on the timing. There are a few times where you could've continued the combo but ended up rolling instead. Okay one time so far, but I'm assuming it happens more than that.
When you're in a defensive mindset, always be prepared to go back on the offensive at a moment's notice. Falcon doesn't do well as a defensive character. Actually I dunno if anyone does...
Anyway, if your opponent messes up spacing and misses an attack, jump backwards and shffl a stomp at him. You want to keep your opponent on the back foot as much as possible, where he has fewer options.
So yeah, in conclusion... work a little on your recovery. I know Falcon can't sweetspot and whatever, but you never even tried to sweetspot with... Falcon Dive. Whatever it's called. The up-B. As such, I'm not sure what you're afraid of from this Doc, but if you learn to ledgetech and mix up your recovery, you should be okay with the attempted sweetspot most of the time and it'll be safer and more consistent. Your combo ability is doing well, and with more experience and proper L-cancels, it'll be even better.
Kudos though, your Falcon is definitely getting better.
Iceman12
Smash Journeyman
watch the one vs link on FoD. Its better ;p.
elvenarrow3000
Smash Master
- Joined
- Jul 22, 2007
- Messages
- 3,308
Fountain of Dreams rips apart Falcon's normal game... I don't think it's a good idea to gauge your skill based on that stage.
Iceman12
Smash Journeyman
I know its a horrible stage for him, I just like the combo I got at 1:13 ;p or there abouts.
elvenarrow3000
Smash Master
- Joined
- Jul 22, 2007
- Messages
- 3,308
Yeah but critiques are to help people, and it's hard to critique a good combo =P
Iceman12
Smash Journeyman
Uploading another match from that day, its a pretty good one I think.
Iceman12
Smash Journeyman
Got a bunch of vids uploadin, need a little more help from youz guys though ;\. Feel free to critique my Marth elven, it needs a little help. Mostly spacing related issues I feel though.
elvenarrow3000
Smash Master
- Joined
- Jul 22, 2007
- Messages
- 3,308
Can you post links of new vids in their respective boards? I don't have the presence of mind to check your channel every day... and it'd be kinda creepy if I did.