"Cheap" Tactics against Marth?

[teh_nuke]

I need some dirty cheap tactics that would destroy a Marth . This particular Marth is very very (did I stress the word very enough?) F-smash happy. All he does is F-smash and try to tip Fsmash pretty much, and uses rolls a lot for maneuvers since he can not WD very well. I would just like to know a move/combo that would absolutely **** him till he gives up playing Marth:devil:. I have not played him as Sheik yet, but I want to be able to go over there today and like 4 stock him. i can't really practice against CPUs because I can 4 stock them with my Peach, but my friend usually has 2 stocks left and owns my Peach (why I picked up Sheik). I usually 3 stock them with sheik, but their AI cant comprehend how to not get grabbed and downsmashed, so I kind of abuse that against them. I need a tactic against humans.

Thanks in advance to anyone who helps, really appreciated!

 

[DarkKnight077]

Is GCN controller wired? Then choke him. Otherwise don't fall for his tactics.

And...Err Peach is great against noobish players. But Shiek? Dunno.

 

[Omni]

Being really good. I heard that's the cheapest tactic out right now. Go for it.

 

[teh_nuke]

Is GCN controller wired? Then choke him. Otherwise don't fall for his tactics.

And...Err Peach is great against noobish players. But Shiek? Dunno.

He is not that "noobish" anymore. I used to 4 stock him almost every time with Peach. After a while he started to figure out anti-Peach strategies and now he beats me almost every time. Marth has a definite advantage over Peach, but Sheik is probably the best character against Marth.

Being really good. I heard that's the cheapest tactic out right now. Go for it.

Well that is obvious, but we are both around the same skill level. I was in search of something that most people call "cheap" instantly (like Peach's downsmash) because they dont know how to counter it. Only scrubs actually believe things are cheap, I am not one of them, but I would like to know of a tactic that would destroy Marth if he didn't know how to get around it.

 

[Zhilo]

Hmmm, well, this pretty much goes without saying, but whenever youre away from Marth and not doing anything important, trow a needle. Keep constant pressure on him with proyectiles he cant do much about. Ecentually he will mess up out of frustration. Spotdodging is a very good counter against a fsmash if you can easily predict it. then he's all yours for a grab and all what a sheick grab implies.

 

[Tundravalco]

you could play fox >.>

 

[teh_nuke]

you could play fox >.>

Im not very good with Fox, he is too technical of a character, and I like female characters

Hmmm, well, this pretty much goes without saying, but whenever youre away from Marth and not doing anything important, trow a needle. Keep constant pressure on him with proyectiles he cant do much about. Ecentually he will mess up out of frustration. Spotdodging is a very good counter against a fsmash if you can easily predict it. then he's all yours for a grab and all what a sheick grab implies.

Thanks for the advice. So Needles + Grab -> Grab Combos

Am I missing anything?

 

[DarkKnight077]

Oh well otherwise Chain grab, F-tilt, Fair. Pick something small though don't pick Yoshi's Story though...

 

[technomancer]

Bait fsmash
dodge fsmash
Grab
Downthrow
Tilt
Fair

it's pretty gay.

 

[teh_nuke]

hmm Im having a problem (keep in mind im practicing on bots) going from a ftilt to fair. I cant get in the air fast enough to get the fair off. is there something Im missing?

EDIT: never mind I wasnt F-tilting with fast enough reflexes after the downthrow.. The combo seems super-gay/cheap now (in a good way). Thanks guys

 

[ShackDaddy]

down throw and just tilt him to death is prolly the gayest thing u can do to a marth. If he jumps out fair him

 

[squaminator]

you can roll around the fsmash and grab. or dash attack.

 

[SCOTU]

Want really "gay"? You want so "gay" that he will be pissing his pants for the next 3 days?

camp the edge. ledgehopped fairs & needles & shinostalls.

 

[dude225]

i hate sheiks, but thats because i play marth. and i have to say the gayest things are as follows from least to greatest...

d-throw
f-tilt
ledge dropped f-airs
NEEDLES
and f-air
then the gayest is the combo of all of them
d-throw > f-tilt > f-tilt > f-air > needle edge guarding/ledge dropped b-airs

of course there are ways around it but it ***** marth.

 

[CHUK]

Play sheik needles needles needles, mind game them to f-smash you while dash dance to grab throw into another throw into a tilt etc.

 

[teh_nuke]

Want really "gay"? You want so "gay" that he will be pissing his pants for the next 3 days?

camp the edge. ledgehopped fairs & needles & shinostalls.

Lol I'm gonna have some fun with my Marth friend tomorrow. Can't wait to use all these ghey tactics on him. Thanks dude225 for that comprehensive list of ghey tactics too

 

[mastersword203]

Its really easy to chain grab marth. I used to to it to my friend and he couldnt do anything about it while the damaged racked up.

 

[teh_nuke]

Its really easy to chain grab marth. I used to to it to my friend and he couldnt do anything about it while the damaged racked up.

found that out after playing for a while with sheik It's awesome to fight a marth with Sheik.

 

[dude225]

just be careful the damage doesnt get too high with the change grab, because he can swat you with an f-air after a certain % and even start a combo on u. lol, ken combos are pretty easy on sheik, so be wary. (id say at about 35-50% just go for the kill with a short hop f-air mixed with edgeguarding) but then i dont play sheik, so i dont know the exact percent marth can swat her. just try it out, lol.

 

[teh_nuke]

just be careful the damage doesnt get too high with the change grab, because he can swat you with an f-air after a certain % and even start a combo on u. lol, ken combos are pretty easy on sheik, so be wary. (id say at about 35-50% just go for the kill with a short hop f-air mixed with edgeguarding) but then i dont play sheik, so i dont know the exact percent marth can swat her. just try it out, lol.

I'm pretty sure they can't get out until the 60-70% range. At that point I dsmash, chase, ftilt, f-air, and then needle-guard and a bair or fair off the edge if necessary.

 

[ConsonantQ]

Your friend seems like an old husband-esque marth user (I hear he actually stepped up from f-smash and f-air). Anyways, a good mindgame for f-smash happy marths is, run attack once or twice when he's standing still and then when you're charging in again, right when you reach f-smash distance, or around when he f-smashes, wavedash backwards and then run in and either d-smash him if he's close enough to the edge so you can needle his recovery, or run in, j-cancel a grab and combo him off that into oblivion.

My favorite thing to do against marths at low percentages is, d-throw, f-tilt, f-tilt, shffl'd f-air, chase him, crouch-stop into a d-tilt, f-tilt, then f-air and that's usually the stock if you needle/edge guard correctly. Works well if a DI is missed or anything of the sort. Replace the croch-stopped d-tilt with a dash-attack if you'd like. Shiek has fast moves, utilize that.

Oh, one last thing, charge the marth if he's standing still, sh-needle him with full needles or enough, and then upon landing, run in and grab. CaptainJack made a video showing the needlestorm grab or whatever he called it on youtube.

 

[Aesir]

lol at a lot of bad advise.

from a marth player who is sorta fsmash happy what works against me? dash toward him and sheild he'll fsmash wavedash out of shield and grab. if you can't do that learn it, cause its very helpful. Once that happends grab, and its all self explainitory from there. also chaingrabbing marth stops at 32 >_> might be sooner I haven't been playing a lot of sheiks lately sooooo meh.

 

[Jujumasta]

One thing that can end Marths pretty easily is a dropzone fair at somewhat low %.

 

[Tristan_win]

Where to begin...
A great trick to use on Marth is grab mind games.
If he is below 50% down throw him and wait to see how he Di’s. If he goes left or right grab him. If he goes up then use anything you wish to hit him. Another fun trick which isn’t limited to Marth is to throwing them up onto a platform and once they start to get up or attack (Marth standing up attack fails to hit right below him) jump up with an N air.
Around 100% the sweet spot up smash kills them.
A great combo which works on all the Marth in my area is once they reach 120 to 140% damage is that you give them a single jab then jump for an f air. If you’re quick enough and they don't see it coming this should hit them.
If you just died and the Marth is hanging on the edge crouch about less then half of your down tilt if the Marth tries to jump from the edge and attack you the stun time will be so short that you can counter him with a down tilt which can led to a nice f air.
If you and a Marth are at an edge of the stage or platform and his back is to the edge use your down smash. Because Marth is so light the first attack will push him off the edge and odds are he will fall into the next hit or fall to far away to counter. You can also use your forward smash.
I’m to sleepy too name anymore.

 

[CopyCat]

I would say shield grab him by waiting for the F smash then shield and when the sword hits the shield WD towards him and grab. This is one way that gets by marth because of the lag he has after the move is done. So its like a free grab every time.

 

[Jujumasta]

If he is recovering, just drop down from the ledge and do a fair or rising nair to stage spike.

 

[frankisvital]

As a Marth who doesn't wavedash (like your friend), I have to say that the most annoying thing you can do as Sheik is use those needles to stop his charge. Or any other time. Needles suck.

 

[pockyD]

chain grabs don't actually work on marth at all from 0, though if he doesn't DI for the CG, then he gives you a free 2-3 hit combo so it's just as good

just know that DI up (and maybe slightly behind also?) gets marth out from 0 so you can't regrab him, but then you can tilt->combo him

 

[Supreme65]

I grab and edge guard him with needles and fair

 

[8AngeL8]

Oh my god, stop bumping old threads to spam your post count. See those 2007's in all the posts other than yours? That means that's the year they were posted in. I.E. you bumped a two year old thread. Stop now.

 

[ArcNatural]

Andddd Done.