Charizard Rock smash Petition!!!!!! Zard mains let our powers combine

[younglinkaku]

As a Zard main I need rock smash and flare blitz.....somebody help me start a petition!!!!

The super armor is essential when times correctly its a defense against projectiles, cannon blast and etc. It gets you out of combos similar to Ryu's focus attack, serves as a KO move, as well as an in-air DI mixup because of the pause in decent. it also serves as a great sort of counter buy absorbing the hit while dishing out punishment, you get the rage without the knockback. Also, it helps against edge pressure and offensive pursuits off stage. For those of us who decided to become Zard main despite the negatives, Rock smash is essential. sheik and Zelda were given moves when they separated and became great characters just as Zard did. .As a solution, Zard should be his own Character that more powerful than the pokemon trainer version. Or add a new down-b move for each pokemon and make the switching command the something else. There where 2 different wolverines in Marvel vs Capcom so it has been done can be done and should be done. If Zard was a top tier character like top 5 or more popular I'm sure they would have made him his own character in ultimate instead of removing his rock smash,

ZARD mains and Smashers please help me reach the ears of the smash developers.

 

[Rocket Raccoon]

It would have been great to have the 3 characters separate and have Trainer in the background for each but I think we're too far into development for that.

 

[#HBC | Red Ryu]

Trust me, as someone who has played him since almost release I get the feeling when it comes to losing that move.

But let's face it, PT to bring Squrtle and Ivysaur back is better in the long run and adds something interesting to the cast. Especially now that stamina and instant switching is now a thing.

I will miss being able to power through hits to do 30% but it is what it is and I'll roll with it. The combo potential witrh switching does interest me a lot.

 

[younglinkaku]

Trust me, as someone who has played him since almost release I get the feeling when it comes to losing that move.

But let's face it, PT to bring Squirtle and Ivysaur back is better in the long run and adds something interesting to the cast. Especially now that stamina and instant switching is now a thing.

I will miss being able to power through hits to do 30% but it is what it is and I'll roll with it. The combo potential witrh switching does interest me a lot.

Yea I'm trying to look on the bright side of the offensive possibilities it's the defensive ones I'm also concerned with, i dont see any of the pokemon having great defensive moves but we will see.

 

[Rocket Raccoon]

Trust me, as someone who has played him since almost release I get the feeling when it comes to losing that move.

But let's face it, PT to bring Squrtle and Ivysaur back is better in the long run and adds something interesting to the cast. Especially now that stamina and instant switching is now a thing.

I will miss being able to power through hits to do 30% but it is what it is and I'll roll with it. The combo potential witrh switching does interest me a lot.

What about type weaknesses?

 

[#HBC | Red Ryu]

What about type weaknesses?

We don't know if that carried over.

it was kind of a thing in Brawl but in smash 4 Zard had nothing of the sort.

 

[Rocket Raccoon]

We don't know if that carried over.

it was kind of a thing in Brawl but in smash 4 Zard had nothing of the sort.

I'd honestly reconsider picking them up again if type weaknesses are gone. Until then we get confirmation, I might skip.

 

[JJBro1]

Just got done playing the demo and ya not having rock smash sucks. I tried playing exclusively as Charizard and every time you lost a stock it cycles to the next pokemon and you can't just hold down and keep pressing b, you have to move or jump and then do B and by the time you cycle back to zard your invincibility frames are over.

 

[Handy Man]

I also played the demo. Stamina and type effectiveness is gone. Removing Rock Smash really does suck, Charizard needs that super armor. I wish they made Squirtle, Ivysaur, and Charizard all independant from each other so that they can all have their own Down Bs.

 

[EclipseSmash]

This thread makes no sense to me, why in the world would you rather have Rock Smash than two extra characters that you can switch between freely? I understand that Rock Smash was hella nice but I'd rather have on-the-go switching.

 

[Handy Man]

This thread makes no sense to me, why in the world would you rather have Rock Smash than two extra characters that you can switch between freely? I understand that Rock Smash was hella nice but I'd rather have on-the-go switching.

Some people only prefer playing as one of the Pokémon instead of two or all three. I main Charizard in Smash 4 and never used Squirtle and Ivysaur much in Brawl, so it really hurts to see Charizard lose a key move in exchange for an option that I personally won't use much. It's like if Zelda and Sheik lost their Smash 4 Down B's and could transform into each other again, but that is not the case. Plus, I feel like all three Pokémon play too differently from each other, it would be difficult for me to be efficient with all three of them.

I'm happy that Squirtle and Ivysaur came back, they definitely deserved it. But I'm not happy that they are all tied to each other again. I know a lot of people like the Pokémon Trainer concept and it is cool to see him back too, but I was so used to maining solo Zard in Smash 4 that I'm not sure how to feel about him now. I would be interested in hearing your thoughts too, since your opinion seems to be the opposite of mine.

 

[Mario & Sonic Guy]

I will say that while Rock Smash's super armor period was nice, it wasn't fool-proof, as grab moves could still bypass the super armor.

Anyway, while I don't see Pokemon Trainer's down special receiving custom variants, Charizard could at least hope that it'll still have access to Fire Fang, Fireball Cannon, Blast Burn, Dragon Rush, Rising Cyclone, and Fly High.

 

[skydogc]

Only thing I'm wondering is why not give Pokemon trainer a Shield+B to Pokeball swap, kinda how Inkling recovers ink. Then give all 3 a unique Down+B. Not saying that's the BEST way, but it is curious with a character that can swap around.

 

[Rocket Raccoon]

Only thing I'm wondering is why not give Pokemon trainer a Shield+B to Pokeball swap, kinda how Inkling recovers ink. Then give all 3 a unique Down+B. Not saying that's the BEST way, but it is curious with a character that can swap around.

How would you swap in the air?

 

[skydogc]

How would you swap in the air?

Air dodge + B same time? Sacrifice an air dodge for that moment of invulnerability and not falling. Maybe make it so if you air dodge swap in a direction, Trainer throws the ball to that direction.

 

[Grambles]

Just change Swap to to a Left or Right Taunt button. Problem solved

 

[JJBro1]

Just got done playing a bunch of matches today and man trying to switch from Ivysaur to charizard is rough. After losing a stock going from squirtle to ivysaur is not a problem but doing it again right away to get to charizard is impossible, you'll crouch a bunch of times before down b is registered. By the time I got it to switch back to Charizard I was already in a juggle and took about 30% damage. Looks like we'll have to learn a little bit of Ivysaur just to create space to switch. This is if you want to exclusively play Charizard of course.

 

[Rocket Raccoon]

Just got done playing a bunch of matches today and man trying to switch from Ivysaur to charizard is rough. Going from squirtle to ivysaur is not a problem but doing it again right away is impossible, you'll crouch a bunch of times before down b is registered. By the time I got it to switch back to Charizard I was already in a juggle and took about 30% damage.

2 questions:

1. Is it true that type weakness is truly gone?
2. Heard some rumors about having to do something before switching to another Pokemon after dying. (ie Dying as Charizard, respawning as Squirtle, then do we have to jump or attack to go back to Ivy?)

 

[Spinosaurus]

Trying to solo main one of the characters isn't gonna work out at all and it's not something you should do.

Still, there could've been a way to lock to one character before the match and they each get a new down B instead or something. That way playing PT as a whole would still be ideal, but people who wanna solo main of the three get the option at least without worrying about constantly switching back.

Also Flare Blitz should've been the one to go, hmph!

 

[Pokechu]

Trying to solo main one of the characters isn't gonna work out at all and it's not something you should do.

I'm curious, why not? I was planning on maining all 3 (lol bye kirby) but I think that each Pokemon would be viable on their own, even without a down special. I think that they would have balanced all three with that independence in mind, especially after Charizard went solo in 4. but idk im probably wrong lol

 

[Spinosaurus]

I'm curious, why not? I was planning on maining all 3 (lol bye kirby) but I think that each Pokemon would be viable on their own, even without a down special. I think that they would have balanced all three with that independence in mind, especially after Charizard went solo in 4. but idk im probably wrong lol

Forced switching still happens after a KO and switching loses invincibility if used again quickly as mentioned above.

It's still totally possible if you really want to obv, just sounds like a pain and pretty unoptimal. This is a beta build though so maybe things will change.

 

[Tybis]

Looks like swapping your initial Pokemon on the select screen is back.



From this.

 

[asia_catdog_blue]

You people aren't real Pokemon fans.

Wanting a weak, useless HM Move back.

 

[Rocket Raccoon]

You people aren't real Pokemon fans.

Wanting a weak, useless HM Move back.

Just throw a PokeBall and get Tauros to do it.

 

[Leaf_It]

There's a simple fix to all of this. Just make the move to switch Pokemon take up one of the taunt commands, instead of removing a move from any of the 3 Pokemon.

Can we Create a Poll for this actually? We need to get Sakurai to see this suggestion.

 

[Pippin (Peregrin Took)]

Just got done playing a bunch of matches today and man trying to switch from Ivysaur to charizard is rough. After losing a stock going from squirtle to ivysaur is not a problem but doing it again right away to get to charizard is impossible, you'll crouch a bunch of times before down b is registered. By the time I got it to switch back to Charizard I was already in a juggle and took about 30% damage. Looks like we'll have to learn a little bit of Ivysaur just to create space to switch. This is if you want to exclusively play Charizard of course.

That almost sounds more like a glitch Sakurai needs to fix rather than a gameplay issue.

Sad to see Rock Smash go. Maybe they could have Dragonite as an echo for solo Zard fans with Rock Smash as the down B. They could bring back Dragon Rush too!

 

[Homelessvagrant]

Personally I'd love it if in the final build of the game you can hold R when selecting your pokemon to get a solo poke (like getting shiek ior zamus in prev games). I love PT as a concept but I can understand the desire to want to play as solo pokes. Either way losing rock smash was a serious loss. I would have preferred losing flame blitz personally.

 

[Blackwolf666]

I hope the Change Pokémon mechanic is similar to inklings refill ink mechanic. Press b while blocking.

 

[Dendros]

Pressing B while blocking wouldn't really work in the air.

I really hope that if they decide to keep switching how it is now, they make it very fast and allow the Pokemon switching in to act immediately. It would be almost like a counter move.

I would rather play with Squirtle and Ivysaur available than having rock smash back.

Who knows. Maybe they will even have buffed some of charizards other moves and/or put super armor on other moves. We just need to remember that this isn't smash 4 Zard.

 

[ggamer77]

Who knows. Maybe they will even have buffed some of charizards other moves and/or put super armor on other moves. We just need to remember that this isn't smash 4 Zard.

Looks and pretty much like Smash 4. Still looks like hell for a flying type Pokemon to have so much trouble landing and even more trouble without rock smash. Loosing rock smash is a huge detriment not to mention sliding rock smash which I use a lot to get through attacks.

Switching Pokemon should definitely be remapped to something unique rather than eating down b special.

Switching also seems like a crutch and excuse to not buff Zard because most of his problems will be disregarded for being able to switch to 2 other move sets.

 

[Spinosaurus]

Charizard got mad buffs, notably in air speed and landing lag. (I'll have to check on the start up) He doesn't need Rock Smash, which was really just a crutch in 4.

I'll still miss it though, but yeah I don't think this character is cheeks anymore from E3 footage. I'd go as far as saying he looks like the best of the three lol.

 

[Christian_CAO]

...i'm going to leave the unpopular opinion by saying rock smash was hot garbage in the first place. No one in their right mind would have wanted charizard to ever have the move in the first place but because he has it you all just go with it. Literally any other move given to him to replace rocksmash would have made you all jump for joy...

with that out of the way I'll sign your petition, but only because getting charizards rocksmash back means that squirtle and ivysaur get new moves to use too. Always a good fan of different button inputs for moves. Shoot streamlining swapping pokemon so you can toggle to the left or right when swapping to bring out who you want out next would also be great. Put their sprite icons from the games down near the character portrait to see who's on the left and right of the current pokemon would be a nice touch too.

 

[Sean Wheeler]

Before they revealed that everyone was back, I was hoping for everyone EXCEPT the Trainer to come back and have switching be a part of a different mode. But well, everyone INCLUDING the Trainer is back. Sakurai wanted to please everyone who mained a character. Unfortunately, the Pokémon Trainer's return did hurt some Charizard mains. Oh well, it was an unwinnable situation between Charizard mains and Pokémon Trainer mains. But at least forced switching is gone, right?

 

[JJBro1]

2 questions:

1. Is it true that type weakness is truly gone?
2. Heard some rumors about having to do something before switching to another Pokemon after dying. (ie Dying as Charizard, respawning as Squirtle, then do we have to jump or attack to go back to Ivy?)

Not sure that type weakness is gone or not but I'm assuming it is. After dying as charizard and respawning as squirtle it's easy to change into ivysaur. However once you're ivysaur it's going to take you a couple tries to get back to charizard.

 

[Spatman]

I really like PT's concept. Now without the stamina we aren't obliged to main all 3 pokémon but rather suggested. It's the rightest thing imo. For who says that now Charizard doesn't have an important defensive moves and that switching to charizard after his death is something that put you in a bad position like being juggled: well, every pokémon fits a different role; it's clear that charizard is a tank, so a character you should use to survive more and to kill earlier, but not necessarily to do damages at the start of the stock.
Imo, at least.
And moreover switching (in air too) gives invincibility frames, I guess. So switching itself is the "new" way to land more safely. Of course it implies to learn at least a minimum of ivy and squero, but it's only right.

And about to have shortcut to switch instantly to the chosen pokémon: I'm agree, it would be cool and maybe also dued. But this won't give us a fourth special move for every pokémon, it's impossibile to expect this kind of things at this phase of development.
And maybe (maybe), it's right this way: it's Pokémon Trainer, not Squero or Ivy or Char.
Personally I prefer a lot to have the three pokémon in an unique character: that is what makes him/her special, the single pokémons alone, ugh, nothing special imo.

And at the end, Charizard seems quite buffed this time

 

[Ryu Myuutsu]

...i'm going to leave the unpopular opinion by saying rock smash was hot garbage in the first place. No one in their right mind would have wanted charizard to ever have the move in the first place but because he has it you all just go with it. Literally any other move given to him to replace rocksmash would have made you all jump for joy...

with that out of the way I'll sign your petition, but only because getting charizards rocksmash back means that squirtle and ivysaur get new moves to use too. Always a good fan of different button inputs for moves. Shoot streamlining swapping pokemon so you can toggle to the left or right when swapping to bring out who you want out next would also be great. Put their sprite icons from the games down near the character portrait to see who's on the left and right of the current pokemon would be a nice touch too.

I know you are just stating your opinion, but did you ever use Rock Smash? It was one of quickest super armor moves in the game, it helped Charizard land on stage and could allow him to escape certain juggle combos by sponging a hit and powering through his opponent. It had a neat spread hitbox that gave it deceptive range and hitting point blank would deal tons of damage. It was certainly quite a useful tool for him, so I feel that if you knew anything about what it could you wouldn't be saying that in the first place.

 

[Spinosaurus]

Rock Smash really was not that great for landing honestly lol. Switching to Squirtle is gonna be way better.

The only reason I'm bummed about losing Rock Smash is because I just dig the animation and because I'd still take it over Flare Blitz.

 

[Ryu Myuutsu]

I see it as a trade off. I will miss Rock Smash, but the way Pokemon Change works now has potential for defensive options, and switching to Squirtle will be a plus since that one has a better time dealing with landing and juggles.

 

[hillofate]

If solo zard had been a high rank character likes B or A or even more, those who oppose him under control again would dominate.

 

[hillofate]

If solo zard had been a high rank character likes B or A or even more, those who oppose him under control again would dominate.