Charizard Community Project #1: Rate our Moveset

[-LzR-]

How 'bout Blast Burn, then? It trades horizontal motion and some startup for the ability to kill most medium characters around 60%, and hits from a little inside Flamethrower's range. It's also armored, and I feel that Blast Burn has the potential to be the preferable option on a few matchups.

I personally ignore custom moves. I don't believe they belong in competitive matches at all so I won't even think about them. Whenever I talk about Zard I mean basic crappy vanilla Zard.

 

[YeahVeryeah]

I personally ignore custom moves. I don't believe they belong in competitive matches at all so I won't even think about them. Whenever I talk about Zard I mean basic crappy vanilla Zard.

That's a very rare opinion. If the polls are anything to go by you should get used to custom moves.

 

[-LzR-]

That's a very rare opinion. If the polls are anything to go by you should get used to custom moves.

What polls? Is it on Smashboards and have they been used on tournaments already?

 

[Spinosaurus]

What polls? Is it on Smashboards and have they been used on tournaments already?

Clash Tournaments support customs and have been using them.

They're pretty awesome.

 

[Jexulus]

I'd be all for using custom moves on a regular basis, except that it's pretty counter-intuitive for a tournament environment. If every custom move were available out of the box and easily accessible from the CSS (along with quick-saving sets from the CSS), then I would not have any issues with it.

It is because of those reasons that I haven't used many of the custom moves yet. Dragon Rush sounds like a match made in heaven to me.

 

[Ryusuta]

Honestly, I think custom moves are a HUGE deal for charizard to have. Being able to use Dragon Rush over Flare Blitz really adds a lot to Charizard's game and helps with so many of his weaknesses.

 

[Augi Jr.]

Charizard is is one of three characters I play. Sonic and WFT being the other two. And I thoroughly enjoy playing him, especially since most people are used to Charizards that sit and spam Blitz; catches them off guard when they face one that knows what they're doing.

People also approach him alot with the misconception that he cant get any good attacks out in time then suddenly, BAM Fsmash to oblivion; he's very quick, despite his heavy classification.

As for his moves, my top picks are: (1 point) (1/2 a point)

Rock Smash - insane damage if everything connects, very long lasting hitbox, and of course the bad ass super armor that makes it great for tight spots. Especially if you keep getting knocked about at high percents and cant get yourself back on the ground.

Back Air - Its KO potential is superb and it's hit box can be deceptive as I've noticed that it also will hit slightly above his tail as well. if it connects off-stage, they're a goner.

Fly - This one is rather new to me as for the longest time I thought it had no hitbox. (I never did any thorough research on Charizard until just today; yet I've been pretty good with him online, as he's one of those characters that I naturally click with. ) That aside, it has great kill potential, especially if you hit them with the very tip of your nose. It reminds me of Little Macs UpB except with greater hitboxes. I need some more practice with it, so for now, 3 1/2 Charizards.

Nair - I have nothing to add that hasnt already been said, just putting it on the list.

F-Smash - It's range is insane and deceptive; and when compared to F-Smashes from Ike, Bowser, DK, or DDD, for a heavy character, it comes out VERY fast with deadly knockback. I've had it hit characters just below the stages edge before as well when timed right.

more to post in a bit.....

 

[MechanicalRhythm]

Truth be told I think we only have two bad throws only fit for very specific situations, and the rest of our entire moveset is totally usable, 3 Zards at worst. We seem to have a lot of moves that are fit for specific purposes, but (in my opinion at least) they're all really good.

I'll put this in quote tags to save space since I'm rating everything-

Jab gets because its ridiculously versatile. Great OoS, great gtfo option, can combo from Nair, can lead into grabs, etc

Ftilt gets because its a great spacing tool, at low %s you can combo from Nair with it. Can be angled for further utility. Very good at what it does, but not spamworthy.

Dtilt gets for being a good gtfo option and being a bit more spammable than Ftilt thanks to being safer on shield. I hear people say the two moves are pretty interchangable and while that may be somewhat true, they are definitely better suited to different roles. I was tempted to give both of these 4 Zards but their frame data overlap does diminish their individual usefulness.

Utilt gets mainly because it has armor on the wings. Otherwise this move would be plain inferior to Usmash. Probably the most niche of all Zards attacks but its perfectly usable. There could be an argument for giving this 2 Zards, I'll say that much.

FSmash gets because its stupid powerful, has long range, and a period of invincibility. Its also super punishable. You don't want to use this often but when you do, it should be awesome.

DSmash gets since its really laggy with short duration, but its a good edgeguard and roll punish. Again, use it when the time is right and get good results.

Usmash gets for being swift, powerful and covering a nice area without being too laggy. A really good punish move. The downside is that sometimes the last hit doesn't connect, which a wary opponent can punish.

Nair gets and really doesn't need explaining at this point. What I will say is SH Nair does a great job of punishing roll getups (and rolls in general).

Fair gets . I was tempted to give this 4 Zards but I realise a lot of the time I have been using Fair, while it works, Nair would've been superior. That said this move is great for offstage edgeguarding and applying aerial pressure. SH Fair has no landing lag, however its liable to miss opponents as there is a deadzone between Zards claws and his body, so you have to space this well for it to actually be useful. When I first started with Zard I thought this move was amazing, but over time I've grown less fond of it.

Bair gets as it has one purpose that it fills really well in being his best aerial kill move with excellent range and power, however it should only be used for that- its laggy and the landing lag is atrocious. That said this move kills extremely early offstage and should put the fear of god into your enemies. You don't want to stale this, so save it for killing.

Dair gets because its a decent spike. Not worth using onstage, but for a character with 2 midair jumps a good spike is pretty nice.

Uair gets as its fast, covers a nice area, and juggles well. Kills easy at high %s. Zard has 3 jumps so you can really mindgame an opponent when they're in the air with this. Its very good.

Flamethrower gets for being a good spacing tool that puts your opponent just about where you want them. Its also a nice edgeguard. Can be reversed. Its punishable is you whiff though.

Rock Smash gets . Its amazing. Charizard is a punishment character, and this is one of the premier reasons why. Its like a counter, but better since it ts not dependant on your opponent throwing out attacks. Deals huge damage, has great knockback, decent radius, and super armour. You can reverse it or perform the sliding Rock Smash tech to give it even greater versatility. You can use this to grant you safe landings, to edgeguard, to punish approaches, to kill... the list goes on. This move is awesome and every Zard main should spend time getting to grips with this move and its many, many applications. Either this or Nair are his best move.

Flare Blitz gets . This move is possibly the best punisher in the game, but it should more or less ONLY be used for that purpose (not counting recovery). Whenever they make an unsafe landing, or start getting projectile happy, feel free to throw this out and give your opponent something to be scared of. Otherwise, stay your hand. This isn't Falcon Kick. Flare blitz has a big wind up and if it connects with anything- even a shield- the recoil animation will ensure anyone with half a brain will get a punish in, on top of the 9% you will take for nothing (also, the shield damage is terrible for such a strong move). This is not a move for making reads with. That's Rock Smash's job. As a recovery move this is excellent and in tandem with Fly and his 2 jumps ensures Zard can make it back from most offstage scenarios, well worth taking 4% for.

Fly gets . Obviously its his main recovery move and will see use because of that, but it has a significant property in Super Armour on start up, so you can use this to punish people trying to gimp you with a stage spike. It also has great KO power and comes out very quickly, making it a good OoS option. However, whiffing it is pretty bad, as it leaves you vulnerable in the air, the last situation you want to be in as a big fat character. Also, unlike most other recoveries, angling this away from the stage will not allow you to grab the edge, resulting in a lost stock. Be careful of that.

Now for throws-

Fthrow gets . Its alright. Good for creating space between you and your opponent, or getting them offstage. Quite powerful, but don't use it to kill, since Dthrow exists.

Bthrow gets since its basically a slightly stronger Fthrow. Use it more or less in the same way, but there will also be times where you want to kill with Bthrow.

Dthrow gets . Its your strongest throw, but not by much, and also least damaging. Only use this when you're going for the kill, since thats its saving grace over Fthrow (providing they're not dead at that % already). Looks uber cool though.

Uthrow gets . Its weak and more or less useless except for the small amount of combo potential it has at lower %s. You'll rarely get to use it though, so I'm tempted to give this just 1 Zard.