Charizard Combos?

[Davregis]

I feel that Charizard, though strong, lacks true combos to capitalize fully once he gets in. Though it seems many of his attacks push him towards heavy footsies-type, even punish characters need to do something once in awhile off a light or throw.

Anyone find combos, true or DI-able? Jab, Jab, Fly is one that's been theorized to exist against high-percentage characters by someone here, I recall.

 

[-LzR-]

Charizard seems to lack true combos but he has plenty of solid followups that will likely work in an actual match.
Nair -> Grab/Jab/Fair
Fair -> Dair with certain spacing and %
Nair/Fair -> Dash Attack
Jab -> Grab

He's got it but he is not a combo character. I use the armor moves to break through their offense and use my superior weight and amazing recovery for his weight to my advantage. Flare Blitz is a really good finisher and Fsmash is not that hard to hit either.

 

[#HBC | Red Ryu]

Zard really isn't a combo character.

If you want that I would point you to Mario/Shiek etc if you wanna find someone like that. He has very solid follow ups just nothing really guaranteed.

 

[The Real Gamer]

Charizard seems to lack true combos but he has plenty of solid followups that will likely work in an actual match.
Nair -> Grab/Jab/Fair
Fair -> Dair with certain spacing and %
Nair/Fair -> Dash Attack
Jab -> Grab

He's got it but he is not a combo character. I use the armor moves to break through their offense and use my superior weight and amazing recovery for his weight to my advantage. Flare Blitz is a really good finisher and Fsmash is not that hard to hit either.

I'd also add in Jab2 > Fly. Not a true combo but it's near guaranteed at higher percentages especially against larger opponents. It's godlike. Shoutout to @ ZTD | TECHnology for this info.

 

[Scourge The Hedgehog]

While not a true combo I seem to always land Back Throw into Flare Blitz at low percents. 30% damage in total.

 

[ZTD | TECHnology]

F-Tilt is another Nair follow up. Not sure if D-Tilt is true yet but its been pretty funny to Nair > D-Tilt > Tech Chase > Flare Blitz people.

 

[Charey]

Ignore this.

 

[Melonfrog]

This works on Bowser at least:
Down air meteor smash
Up normal wing attack
Then Smash up wing attack

I landed this twice on a Bowser so I think it counts as a combo.

 

[Straider]

Up throw to fair at like 0% on most characters is the only combo that I have found.

 

[ZTD | TECHnology]

I found one that seems to work,

Up throw > dragon rush
Works between 25%-75% on Mario.

I don't have another player to test using VI to escape but the Lvl9 CPU can't seem to airdodge out.

This is not legitimate by any means.

This works on Bowser at least:
Down air meteor smash
Up normal wing attack
Then Smash up wing attack

I landed this twice on a Bowser so I think it counts as a combo.

Is it a Full Hop Dair or...? Either way not practical/reliable. Not a bad thing to know possible meteor follow ups though. Though be careful about trying Up Smash on lighter people..if they're too far out, they can avoid getting hit by the 2nd hit of Up Smash and you can get hella punished for it.

Up throw to fair at like 0% on most characters is the only combo that I have found.

Known already but thank you. And yeah some characters can VI out of it/have small enough frames to avoid it.

 

[errcs]

He's too strong to be a combo character just use the neuA combo, get the opponent in the air and go to work. Tons of great follow-up options. Dont get excessively fancy with aerial approaching.

 

[YeahVeryeah]

Techchase thanks for nair into dtilt info. In fact, thanks between you and that other guy for pointing out how fast d-tilt is. I get so many early EASY kills just dtilting walk off FAiring or just Nairing.

 

[#HBC | Red Ryu]

This is not legitimate by any means.



Is it a Full Hop Dair or...? Either way not practical/reliable. Not a bad thing to know possible meteor follow ups though. Though be careful about trying Up Smash on lighter people..if they're too far out, they can avoid getting hit by the 2nd hit of Up Smash and you can get hella punished for it.



Known already but thank you. And yeah some characters can VI out of it/have small enough frames to avoid it.

Vectoring will not stop any combo below 70%.

 

[YeahVeryeah]

Vectoring will not stop any combo below 70%.

So if Seismic Toss -> FAir will work on a character at a given percent, it will always work on them?

 

[#HBC | Red Ryu]

So if Seismic Toss -> FAir will work on a character at a given percent, it will always work on them?

More or less.

Vectoring influence at low percents is negiable, same with the weaker DI in this game. It's only after you hit above 70% is when this stuff really matters.

 

[ZTD | TECHnology]

That's pretty interesting. If only we had more combos lol.

 

[Remzi]

I'm not sure thats true. The success of Uthrow > Fair at 0% on many characters has varied GREATLY for me, and I'm assuming thats because of VI.

 

[ZTD | TECHnology]

I have to admit, I'm also skeptical. Are there any resources on Vectoring, I can look at that supports your point Ryu? I've had widely varying results also.

 

[#HBC | Red Ryu]

I have to admit, I'm also skeptical. Are there any resources on Vectoring, I can look at that supports your point Ryu? I've had widely varying results also.

From what Aero has told me and with how VI works and what was tested VI does.

ok

I want to just lay out the facts here

FROM 0% TO ABOUT 70% KNOCKBACK DIFFERENCE FROM RAGE AND KNOCKBACK INFLUENCE/VECTOR INFLUENCE IS ABSOLUTELY TINY AND UNNOTICEABLE

YOU STILL HAVE YOUR COMBOS

edit: big letters so people will read

This seems to hold true. Vectoring is more like a multiplier effect by the looks of it, this is why it's more noticeable at higher percentages.

For the FOOLS who aren't reading:

Zelda @ 150% uthrow vs 0% Bowser: 48 KB

Zelda @ 0% uthrow vs 0% Bowser: 41 KB

The difference with Bowser at 50% is a mere 2 points in knockback/launch speed different at the same percentages.

pls frondz, my sanity is at stake

This also a result of Rage sometimes.

Expanding on this because this post is vague:

Vectoring + slightly larger blastzones = living longer

Rage = more knockback at relatively high percents

In a 1 vs 1 with two people on 130%, if one KO's the other, then the KO'd player loses their rage bonus which makes it more difficult to KO the other opponent while NOT affecting combos and strings at low percents.

I think that KI/VI/DI and Rage were mechanics implemented to compliment each other

In a nutshell, if the combo is not working. VI and Rage are more likely not the reasons.

 

[ZTD | TECHnology]

I need to talk to Aero about a few things anyway. He's one of my favorite people to consult about technical stuff.

 

[Remzi]

Either Aero is wrong, or there is something else at work. If I use a fresh uthrow on the same character, with both of us at 0%, I can get pretty dramatically varying results. Aero seems in a rush to prove that VI isn't a game changer, or isn't going to ruin Sm4sh's combo game. And I agree with him in that sense, but its effects below 70% shouldn't be completely dismissed. The effects of VI on low percent throws can be very apparent in some cases.

 

[#HBC | Red Ryu]

I couldn't tell ya.

This is just what I have been told and looked up o the subject.

 

[Kurogane Hammer]

Either Aero is wrong, or there is something else at work. If I use a fresh uthrow on the same character, with both of us at 0%, I can get pretty dramatically varying results. Aero seems in a rush to prove that VI isn't a game changer, or isn't going to ruin Sm4sh's combo game. And I agree with him in that sense, but its effects below 70% shouldn't be completely dismissed. The effects of VI on low percent throws can be very apparent in some cases.

The new DI is mostly affected by KBG because its percentage based.

Rage seems to affect moves with very high KBG (smash shulk. Dr mario fsmash etc) less than normal moves.

Its hard to tell for now, but throws should combo from low percentages at least.

 

[Volimutt]

B-throw -> F-air/N-air seems legit at low %. Though lightweights like and have a good chance of escaping. Against heavier characters you seem to have more options to throw in after the initial combo. Like...

B-throw -> F-air/N-air -> Triple Jab
B-throw -> F-air/N-air -> F-tilt (If you manage to sweet spot with his tail flame, Kudos!)
B-throw -> F-air/N-air -> D-tilt
B-throw -> N-air -> Grab

I performed the combos above on all characters.

A fun little thing I did on training mode was:
B-throw -> N-air -> B-throw -> N-air -> U-throw. Possible hidden chain grab? Test it out for yourselves and let me know what you think. (Note: This specific combo was performed on a Lv. 9 set to Run)

I think it can be used effectively with good game play mechanics.

EDIT: Oh! This almost slipped my mind. After B-throw, N-air has a good chance to cause a trip allowing for an auto re-grab opportunity. If you can force a trip and capitalized on it this is much more possible.

 

[RadianB]

Sweet spot Nair into Flare Blitz at 80-100% seems like a thing.