Characters who are worse than they should be (and why they are)

[McGodd]

the only technical skill this community needs is to be able to play with 1 hand

then you can money match melee **** in 64 saying you will play with one hand, then with the other hand you can flip them off and let them know how ****ty the collective skills of their community is.

http://m.youtube.com/watch?v=VtRBafGpMPc WA local tho

 

[Studstill]

OH HAHAHA. That`s cool. I meant, like literally I hold the controller with one hand on the middle prong. Very difficult to smash in non-right directions.

 

[caneut]

I can play with one hand.
Hint: Position so you can always attack to the right.

You'd still need 2 hands to come close to melee players at 64.

 

[Herbert Von Karajan]

I can play with one hand.
Hint: Position so you can always attack to the right.

that hint tells me you aren't competent at 1 hand smash

 

[Herbert Von Karajan]

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The competitive mindset in the 64 community.
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in in ****ing japan and posting on my phone so **** off cuntbox

 

[firo]

Why was this moved to character discussion? This was more of a post discussing why the community seems to be at a lower technical level than other games and the reasoning for it.

Regardless, I'm glad that a lot of people seem to agree with some of what I'm saying here. There's a lot of potential for more technical play, and even though this makes mistakes much more costly, I think it'll pay off in the end. Having some more character variety is not only good for the game, but it also should be good for the players.

Having a single stage to play on would help with this as well, I think, as it is hard enough to play some of the more technical characters on dreamland, and adding more stages to the mix would increase this complexity by a lot.

 

[Herbert Von Karajan]

Why was this moved to character discussion?

because shaya is a cuntbox who feels like fixing things that aren't broken. No one ****ing complains about anything yet he still feels a need to stick paperclips down his peehole just so he can piss it out later

 

[Han Solo]

@ firo , do you mind getting into specifics about this?

"With a hit on an opposing character's shield, fox should be getting a high percentage combo, or a kill, almost every time."

Are you saying Fox is adept at shield poking and following pokes up with a combo? The only methods of punishing a shield are grabbing it or breaking the shield. Fox can't follow up a grab in the same way Falcon, Puff, or even DK can. Fox can punish a roll out of a shield, but then you're punishing the roll, and that won't happen "almost every time" like you say.

Fox can punish a shield, but it's not as good or consistent as Pika's, Kirby's, Falcon's, Yoshi's, and Ness's punish on shield. I just can't think of situation where you'll be getting a high-% combo and/or KO off a punish on shield almost every time.

 

[jimmyjoe]

Anybody? I want to hear what the options are for Han's question.

 

[SheerMadness]

I'd agree with Solo. IMO Fox is nothing special in terms of punishing shields.

Honestly the the most consistent thing aside from just grabbing (for me anyway) is spamming jab/drill on their shield until it pokes. Position yourself with the drill so you can land behind them and they can't shield grab.

That's not 100% reliable either though and will get punished by certain chars. Falcon can upsmash, Pika can nair, Fox can shine, etc.

 

[LunarWingCloud]

I wish Ness was better. 64 Ness was the only Ness I bothered to want to use.

 

[BananaBolts]

I'd agree with Solo. IMO Fox is nothing special in terms of punishing shields.

Honestly the the most consistent thing aside from just grabbing (for me anyway) is spamming jab/drill on their shield until it pokes. Position yourself with the drill so you can land behind them and they can't shield grab.

That's not 100% reliable either though and will get punished by certain chars. Falcon can upsmash, Pika can nair, Fox can shine, etc.

Correct me if I'm wrong.
The quote from firo is as follows: "With a hit on an opposing character's shield, fox should be getting a high percentage combo, or a kill, almost every time."

I don't think that this directly mentions shield poke in the first place but I'll get to that. I think that the point made is that a "20XX" Fox would be able to break an opponents shield at the drop of a hat and follow up with a solid combo. Isn't perfect shine pressure on shield 100% inescapable? If it was inescapable, I could see a few scenarios where the setup for shine pressure would result in failure but that percentage is fairly low.

As for Fox's superior shield poke game, I think he is better than the majority of the cast at shield poking -> combo

This list assumes that the opposing players are on a completely solid, flat part of the stage:
Falcon- good at shield pressure but his shield pokes are sub par
Samus- virtually only a shield pressure game. Samus has bad shield poking tools, iirc (forward tilt isn't a combo starter)
Yoshi- good shield pressure/poke game all around. I think he beats most of the cast in that regard (
Pika- down tilt is nice but it doesn't lead into a combo very often. up tilt is only useful on a small shield and pika's shield pressure seems to be lacking to me. she often can't reduce the shields size enough before an up tilt but I could be wrong
Mario- fireballs allow him to close in and his down air is nice shield pressure and leads into shield poke sometimes. He's average
Luigi- unlike his counterpart, Luigi's shield pressure suffers due to his fall speed. His down air should be adequate but it lacks the utility that Mario's down air has.
DK- worst shield pressure game on flat ground? only has down tilt for pokes and that doesn't lead into anything
Puff- decent shield pressure with down air and has a good up tilt. average
Link- down tilt is almost too slow so it's hard for me to speculate. boomerang is nice but it has drawbacks. grab is too slow 75% of the time for shield pressure and it doesn't combo. up tilt is arguably his best option and it doesn't poke well.
Ness- good shield pressure but his DJC tricks are only good at the right staleness, iirc... I'd place him at third
Kirby- nice up tilt but the knockback on shield is high, iirc. Down air is amazing
Fox- IMO he's the second best at shield pressure/pokes, just below Yoshi. Down tilt is fantastic. his drill is solid. up tilt is nice. shine pressure has potential. His fall speed is helpful on shield. fair/bair have low enough knockback to keep the enemy close for more shield pressure and a potential shield poke

My shield pressure/poke character list on flat ground:
1. Yoshi/Fox
3. Ness
4. Kirby
5. Mario
6. Falcon <- only because of his grab, otherwise he'd be near the bottom
7. Puff
8. Samus
9. Luigi
10. DK

If any of this is misinformed or just ignorant, please tell me.

 

[Cobrevolution]

i feel like most of the time shield poking is overshadowed by shield pressure -> grab. that is, your goal is often to apply just enough pressure for a grab followup, and not a poke or break.

you forgot link on your list

kirby's dtilt pokes shields a helluva lot