Character match-up chart. Everyone please help

[Ripple]

this helping the character match-up CHART in the tactical discussion forum. They are arguing on whether DK has a disadvantage or an advantage in a certain match-up and so I decided that before I update my thread with the info it would be best if we all agreed to how a match up is, whether or not he has an advantage. This will be simple enough chart that everyone can fallow.

everyone feel free to copy and paste this and edit it to your liking and tell us why you have done so. this is how I feel upon each match-up

DK is

> to Bowser

> than Capt. Falcon

< Diddy

< than Falco

= to Fox

>than G&W

> than Ganondorf

< than Ice climbers

= to Ike

> to Jiggs

< than DDD

= to Kirby

= to Link

< than Lucario

= to Lucas

> than Luigi

= to mario

= to marth

< than meta Knight

= to ness

> than Peach

< than pikachu

< than olimar

< than Pit

PT
< than squirtle
> than ivysaur
> than charizard

> than ROB

= than Samus

< than sheik

< to snake

> than sonic

< than Toon link

= to wario

< than wolf

> than yoshi

< than zelda

< than Zamus

 

[Kyle_Wattula]

Rip, please reply to my Tier rating post a page back in the 101 thread as I value your input greatly.


This is what I'vee experienced, but may I add, I haven't fought PRO versions of every character, so this is my RELATIVE understanding, if asked I will gladly discuss any answer.

GG Ripple.


DK is

> to Bowser

> than Capt. Falcon

< Diddy

< than Falco

= to Fox

>than G&W

> than Ganondorf

< than Ice climbers

> to Ike

> to Jiggs

< than DDD

> to Kirby

= to Link

< than Lucario

= to Lucas

+ than Luigi

< to mario

< to marth

< than meta Knight

= to ness

< than Peach

< than pikachu

> than olimar

< than Pit

PT
< than squirtle
> than ivysaur
> than charizard

<, = than ROB

= than Samus

= than sheik

< to snake

> than sonic

< than Toon link

> to wario

= than wolf

> than yoshi

= than zelda

< than Zamus

 

[Ripple]

ok, so the only characters we disagree on would be

Ike
Jiggs
kirby
mario
marth
peach
olimar
rob
samus
shiek
wario
wolf
zelda


its a good start. I'll edit some reasons why I think they are what I believe and would you please do the same.

I think we really don't need to consider most of the other characters but if you have something please say it and why

edit: this is why DK will be < than samus

http://youtube.com/watch?v=VPYdDu5B7_0

Samus can do this to DK like no other

 

[itsthebigfoot]

DK >Diddy, his glide toss to fsmash ***** diddy, also, if you can grab there items >peach, rob, and link (TL is iffy)

also DK > Lucas

 

[Kyle_Wattula]

Samus can't KO.
Samus Can't Gimp.
So what if she pokes DK with 4% over and over and over again.



Ike loses to DK's downB. HARD, & he is easily gimped as one can jump into his sideB,
Jiggs loses to DK's Bair and overall range, Additionally, Rest suxors and she can;t escort anymore.

 

[Ussi]

well DK being greater than ike? I'd like to see that in my own eyes Kyle or maybe you can show my Ike why DK is better.

 

[Ripple]

DK >Diddy, his glide toss to fsmash ***** diddy, also, if you can grab there items >peach, rob, and link (TL is iffy)

also DK > Lucas

the glide toss isn't enough of a reason to have a complete advantage over the character. what if they don't throw stuff as diddy or rob. link is still a pain and a good one will know how to keep someone at bay; especially dk since he has none of his own. its most likely = to link but there should be no way he is even or > than toon link because of how much he can still camp without bombs. and lets face it your not going to be able to catch and return every bomb he throws at you.

How is DK > than lucas? my friend mains him and I thought it was even every time


@ kyle: I'm thinking I agree more with you on the Jiggs match-up. DK kills at 50% in that match but I still disagree about samus. DK has NO approach against that. it stops him and causes him to face forward. dk has only ftilt that could still possibly do nothing. it also has 0 lag on landing so you still can't punish. and 4% isn't much but if they hit you over and over again it racks up the damage and could kill with more options + samus has missle spam. how are you still saying its even?

 

[Jumpinjahosafa]

I dont really have anything to contribute..

Except you don't have to put "Than" behind every >

It already means "less than" so you're just saying Less than than

 

[Cancel]

dk does well matching up with these characters, depends how you approach them.

 

[Kyle_Wattula]

Diddy is def > DK If you don't believe me than please play my Diddy friend and we'll see the results. =)

Lucas is not <DK.
PK Fire can only be beaten by SA that can be baited.
His jump is soo high you often lose ledge guard oppertunities.
His aeriels are all disjointed hitboxes, meaning that DK's upB is the only thing that beats Lucas in the air.
Did I mention you can't Ftilt PK fire?
Did I talk about him zoning you till 80% with PK Fire/Freeze?


Ripple, I play a great Melee Samus and descent Brawl Samus, as soon as she short hops in range for the Z tether zoning, just roll towards her, WOALAH your on the inside and away from zoning opportunities. Samus's Dsmash got NERFED badly as this was the primarily GTFO move, now she only has Dtilt, and once you roll behind her, she don't even have that. Ftilt beats Missles and most charge shots. She is also easily edge guarded. I understand Samus does have an advantage of range but I feel DK's combo/power stats out do her enough to make this an even fight.

the Samus I play in brawl in named VR. He's pretty good and this is my experience with the match-up.

well DK being greater than ike? I'd like to see that in my own eyes Kyle or maybe you can show my Ike why DK is better.

I would like to reiterate my relative understanding of brawl and these match-ups. This is based off of the people I have fought who may or may not be PRO, I'm just rating the potential and advantages/disadvantages I see in each. I have only met 1 IKE who beat me... and he BEAT the Hell out of me actually. BearsRScary? I believe.

IKE's Dtilt spikes spinning Kong VERY EASY.
IKE'S Fair has great range can be relatively safe if Fast Fell at the right distance.

DK's Bair escort IKE of stage VERY EASY.
If opponent is Fair spamming than you gain a free SA Donkey Punch. = Death.

No IKE I have fought has really shown me potential besides that one gentlemen in ATL.

I dont really have anything to contribute..

Except you don't have to put "Than" behind every >

It already means "less than" so you're just saying Less than than

FnLOLz

 

[Ripple]

this will be my last post until tomorrow at about 5

kyle if you have played any peaches or shieks you would agree with me, DK pwns peach because peach has nothing to strong anymore + DK's glide toss. and shiek has f-tilt to AAA combo which is ridiculous and hard to escape. g2g

DK>peach
DK<shiek

 

[Tom]

Kyle, from what I've heard, BearsAreScary aka Elliot plays a great Ike, but he also plays DK some. So maybe he just knew you too well. ;D

 

[Cyphus]

hey guys, i still play DK :D
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lNtJyQGSVZA (random tourney 3 days ago)

but i co-main him with Kirby (whoever gives me an advantage in tournament.

if i may express my opinions:


> Bowser
> Capt. Falcon
< Diddy
< Falco

= Fox
< G&W
> Ganondorf
< Ice climbers

= Ike
> Jiggs
< DDD
= Kirby

= Link
= Lucario
= Lucas
> Luigi

= mario
= marth
< meta Knight
= ness

> Peach
< pikachu
= olimar
< Pit

PT
< squirtle
> ivysaur
> tcharizard

< ROB
= Samus
= sheik
< snake

= sonic
< Toon link
= wario
< wolf

< yoshi
= zelda
< Zamus

 

[~ Gheb ~]

We already discussed the DK vs Wolf match-up on the Wolf boards and agreed that it's neutral

 

[akkon888]

DK is not greater than Ike. At most its equal, if not disadvantage. Smashes of Ike have awesome range, and he has awesome gimp with dair, and edgeguard with n special.

 

[Ripple]

DK is not greater than Ike. At most its equal, if not disadvantage. Smashes of Ike have awesome range, and he has awesome gimp with dair, and edgeguard with n special.

first off, yes he is, Ike's smashes do indeed have good range but they are are far to slow to use except for d smash and that won't kill DK until 140%


second off, ike has a terrible edgeguard with dair. if he goes off to far he can't return

the only thing DK has to do is grab you at mid% and cargo d toss you off the edge and you can't return

 

[Tujex]

I think DK owns both Snake and MK.

I haven't played any GOD tier snakes or MK's yet, but I've played enough of levels of Snake's and MK's to know and see that DK's obscene range and power give him a greater, if not equal, advantage over those two characters.

 

[Mr. Burns]

I agree DK>MK but snake owns DK

 

[Shin Bowser Meow]

I agree DK>MK but snake owns DK

I would not say Snake owns Dk, but it is in his favor. Both are heavy, have crazy range on tilts and have high killing power. Dk can spike a snake out of up b easy, but he has to get past snakes projectile game and grenade defense.

 

[Luigi player]

Somehow I really have problems against Snake with DK... maybe it was just that I didn't have enough expierience, but a Snake 2 stocked me and had 0 %.

I couldn't do anything, but I won with Diddy.

MK is not too hard to beat though, but it's still a challenge.

 

[Tujex]

All Snake's fight the same. Once you get passed the learning and predicting curve, you realize that all Snake's use the same weak tactics in the same way and it gets easy to learn, predict, and counter. The hardest part is learning to move in on Snake without getting caught. One false move and your gone from an explosion or tilt....

It's about 50-50, maybe 55-45 IMO...but Snake has a very slight advantage if he has any at all. DK kills the hell out of his recovery with CSS and Dair.

And MK is far to weak to do anything against DK IMO. Yet another match where experience plays a part in difficulty since not knowing what to look out for will cause you to get 2 or 3 stocked by this guy. But I found that DK outranges him, and DK's ground game owns. Not to mention he can KO MK at absurdly low damage%'s

 

[Jmex]

For anyone that does bad against Snakes once the matchup is learned after a few matches he isent that big of a problem. I'm not saying your going to **** all the time, but you should win a good majority of the time.

Against Meta knight, I personally think if your not smart, careful, and patient, your going to get ***** every time. Also make sure you know how his up b hits, because if you don't, that will kill you at low percentages when he combos you off the stage every time.

 

[Tujex]

I forgot about that UpB. It ***** severely if you're not careful.

 

[Luigi player]

Is it just me or is Lucario DKs worst matchup? =/

I usually beat the Lucario players with like... many other characters relatively easy, but with DK I have a strong feeling that I'm at a serious disadvantage... it's REALLY hard and I even lost at Brinstar... (well, I wanted to dsmash which would've killed him and did a side dodge, but still...)

It is really hard to KO Lucario with DK. Somehow all of his attacks aren't punishable, and the only attacks DK can do are fast (and weak) ones. Whichs means he'll have high damage all the time... then he is super broken and I can't do much =/

I also can't come through his aura attacks, and he always get's away without getting hit =/

Dedede is much easier for me...

 

[C.O.C.K]

I thought DK was a MK counter.

 

[Ragnar0k]

Against Lucario stay on the ground. His implied aerial priority is better than yours so use your ground game. Your forward smash has more range than his even though it doesn't look like it does. Also down b *****. I'm pretty sure you can forward tilt baby aura spheres out of the air. I don't have much else to say but that should be a good start.

 

[Four Leaf]

Is it just me or is Lucario DKs worst matchup? =/


It is really hard to KO Lucario with DK. Somehow all of his attacks aren't punishable, and the only attacks DK can do are fast (and weak) ones. Whichs means he'll have high damage all the time... then he is super broken and I can't do much =/

I also can't come through his aura attacks, and he always get's away without getting hit =/

Dedede is much easier for me...

My brother plays Lucario as his main and he is a tough fight if you're playing a campy Lucario. F-tilt the projectiles. Try to stay on the ground. Space your down B. Don't approach in the air unless its Bair. One thing I've done for killing Lucario is cargo, throw off the stage, and then instead of going for the spike, I run off and try to Bair them for a stage spike. Since Lucario's Up B has a decent amount of start up lag, gimping is a viable option. I either jump out and try to catch them with Bair during the startup of their up B, or I run off and Bair them against the stage. Maybe its how my brother plays, but even when Fast falling, or timing a spike perfect he'll go for the stage cling (pending the stage of course). Sorry its not too helpful, but its just my 2 cents.

 

[Luigi player]

Thanks guys, I'll try a bit of that, and maybe I should do more grounded upBs to approach him or something...

But on the ground his attacks are a real pain too =/

 

[i1337]

For anyone that does bad against Snakes once the matchup is learned after a few matches he isent that big of a problem. I'm not saying your going to **** all the time, but you should win a good majority of the time.

Against Meta knight, I personally think if your not smart, careful, and patient, your going to get ***** every time. Also make sure you know how his up b hits, because if you don't, that will kill you at low percentages when he combos you off the stage every time.

abuse super armour against meta :bigthumbu

 

[Jmex]

I know and agree that falco has the advantage in this match up, although what if any are some thing that work well against Falco? Aside from starting the match off at around 50 percent due to his chain grab, i feel a bit lost when playing him. After the chain grab is done, the barrage of lasers start coming which make it almost impossible to hit Falco.

 

[i1337]

I know and agree that falco has the advantage in this match up, although what if any are some thing that work well against Falco? Aside from starting the match off at around 50 percent due to his chain grab, i feel a bit lost when playing him. After the chain grab is done, the barrage of lasers start coming which make it almost impossible to hit Falco.

:O beat me to it XD