Character architect

[UltimateHaxor123]

ok so my friend and i were discussing the history of melee when we began arguing over who the architect was for falco. He thought it was bombsoldier while i said that a number of ppl (dave, pc, bombsoldier) could have been considered the inventors for its metagame. so i made a list of characters and their architects below

Marth: Ken
Captain Falcon: Isai
Samus: Wes
Puff: King
IC's: Chu Dat
Mewtwo: Taj
G&W: direvulcan
Falco: (bombsoldeir??? up for debate)
Fox: (we couldn't think of one specific person. several came to mind tho. feel free to voice ur opinion on this)
sheik: (captain jack maybe???!?!? idk)
Peach: (????)
Luigi: Ka-master
Pikachu: Anter
Yoshi: Fumi/Sven

i know this isn't all the characters but its just a start. please post ur own version of the list or debate XD

 

[Bob Money]

Marth: Ken
Captain Falcon: Isai
Samus: Wes
Puff: King
IC's: Chu Dat
Mewtwo: Taj
G&W: direvulcan
Falco: Forward (new school falco ) Sam /Dave(Basic down air shine falco) props to Rob falco for inventing gimps.
Fox: Mofo or Chillin or Zelgadis
sheik: Captain jack, recipherous , Azen
Peach: Sastopher Mike G
Luigi: Ka-master maybe yagi
Pikachu: Anter ,Roarie
Yoshi: Fumi/Sven
Ganon-Eddie
Roy- Neo
Link- the germ!
Doc-me! or caveman.

 

[Tee ay eye]

im listing the "creators" along with people who may have revolutionized or changed the way a character was played (like what armada did with peach). i'll list them in order from old to new.

Fox: No idea.
Marth: Ken, Mew2king (inventor, re-inventor)
Sheik: Captain Jack? KoreanDJ? Mew2king?
Falco: Idk who the inventor was, but Forward, Shiz, and Mango definitely revolutionized Falco
Peach: Sastopher/Wife/Mike G? Then, obviously Armada for re-inventor.
Captain Falcon: Isai
Jigglypuff: King, Mango
Ice Climbers: Chu, Wobbles
Samus: Wes, HugS
Dr. Mario: Bob$/Caveman, Norcal
Ganondorf: Eddie
Mario: SCORPIONMASTER94
Pikachu: I don't really know. Axe sorta invented all of his own stuff, but some of it was already done. Axe definitely brought Pikachu way further than ever before, but idk who (if anybody) is a real inventor.
Roy: Neo?
Game and Watch: DualCats
Yoshi: Fumi
Bowser: Grumpyflush62
Mewtwo: Taj invented it, then Taj re-invented it
Pichu: INSANE CARZY GUY

 

[MT_]

Eggz/Cape for Mario?

 

[Fortress | Sveet]

dav3 invented SHL

eddie invented shffl

 

[Kanelol]

Falco: PC/Forward
Fox: Chillin, as much as I dislike the dude. Or Zelgadis
Puff: ****ing king
Marth: Ken ofc
Falcon: ISAIIIIIIIII
Samus: Wes/Hugo
Peach: Who was that oldschool peach player? From way back in the MLG days... Err. Cort? Idk.
Doc: Bob$
Shiek: KDJ
IC's: Wobbles all day
Luigi: Ka-Master

 

[The Star King]

Wow how can you guys not put Bombsoldier for Falco, he was definitely the pioneer for the modern Falco IMO. Seriously, watch his videos, he was waaaay ahead of his time.

I'm pretty sure most well-known Falco players like Zhu, Forward, and DSW said they were inspired by Bombsoldier.

 

[Dragoon Fighter]

Kirby: T!mmy

 

[Da Shuffla]

Falco: PC/Forward
Fox: Chillin, as much as I dislike the dude. Or Zelgadis
Puff: ****ing king
Marth: Ken ofc
Falcon: ISAIIIIIIIII
Samus: Wes/Hugo
Peach: Who was that oldschool peach player? From way back in the MLG days... Err. Cort? Idk.
Doc: Bob$
Shiek: KDJ
IC's: Wobbles all day
Luigi: Ka-Master

I'm quite sure that it's Cort.

 

[KishPrime]

Sastopher was the best-placing Peach player ever until Armada. He beat Ken on a couple occasions and took Top 5 at a few nationals. Vidjo would be the second best placing Peach, I believe.

Most of you guys are clearly young. Falco was very much defined in the early days by DA Dave until PC Chris took it over like 2-3 years later. Fox was defined by Chillindude and Zelgadis' combo video. Sheik was defined by Recipherus till he quit to play chess.

 

[BigD!!!]

ive been theorizing lately that zelgadis was actually one of the most influential players of all time

the very concept of overwhelming someone with tech skill was pretty much nonexistent until shined blind, and that completely revolutionized the way fox players practiced

falco would probably be a mess between dave, dope, bombsoldier, forward, shiz, in chronological order, but theres tons of other guys like zanguzen, rob$, PC, and everyone else. i'd have to give the most credit to bombsoldier probably if i had to narrow it down to one, despite dave actually doing most of the basic techniques before anyone else.

i would argue that, while isai had more success and came earlier, darkrain actually had a bigger impact on the way everybody plays falcon now

sheik is impossible to narrow to one i think, but i will say that kdj invented the gimp heavy game and tope pretty much invented the tech chasing sheik game. drephen was doing a bad version of the tech chasing pretty well, but tope was the first to actually have an answer to every option and relatively consistently react to everything

 

[The Star King]

I thought Tatsuya was the first technical Fox.

 

[BigD!!!]

tetsuya just did wacky combos in training mode though, nobody really sought to be like tetsuya. if he was a successful technical fox, he was far less notorious for it than zelgadis

 

[The Star King]

WTF he didn't just do training mode combos, his Fox was really good and WAY ahead of his time. People thought his matches were fake.

 

[KishPrime]

ive been theorizing lately that zelgadis was actually one of the most influential players of all time

the very concept of overwhelming someone with tech skill was pretty much nonexistent until shined blind, and that completely revolutionized the way fox players practiced

i would argue that, while isai had more success and came earlier, darkrain actually had a bigger impact on the way everybody plays falcon now

I will agree 100% with all of these. Isai made Falcon a hero, but Darkrain taught people how to play him.

Falco has probably had the messiest evolution of anyone, but that's because there are more ways to play Falco, I think, than any other character.

Most people here didn't worship the Japanese except for a vocal minority.

 

[The Star King]

Well, obviously the last part was directed at me, but I just think you guys are underestimating the infuence the Japanese had on the metagame (thought they don't have much now). I definitely don't "worship" them though.

P.S. I can't believe there's somebody out there thinks that Falco is more versatile than Fox. x_X

 

[KishPrime]

It wasn't directed at you. I'm talking about "back in the day."

The only Japanese player that had a significant effect on the metagame was BombSoldier, from my perspective. And honestly, all of our Falcos were doing bits of pieces of his game already, and PC Chris was likely as good or better than him. The BombSoldier vids just put it all together.

Japanese videos were extremely rare in the 2003-2005 time period, and the ones that did come out were not so much impressive as just different. There were impressive players, but none so impressive that they shifted the metagame singlehandedly.

 

[BigD!!!]

actually, captain jack invented donkey kong's cargo uthrow uair combos i believe

but thats so basic and obvious that anybody would have thought of it probably within a year anyway

i was around and watching tons of videos in 2005, and the only japanese fox that anybody really paid attention to in matches was masashi, and he never short hopped so that shows how much he influenced anything

 

[Bob Money]

Wasn't Thunders (thunders combo) a pretty notable fox? I think alot of Japanese influence came via Skypal (Seattle) I could be wrong. It just seems that they always had some kind of new trick or matchup knowledge that no one else had at that time. Either way fun times.

 

[KAOSTAR]

I don't actually know but I thought mookierah invented m2 and taj took it to another level and then re invented it.

 

[MCSR]

I don't actually know but I thought mookierah invented m2 and taj took it to another level and then re invented it.

Don't forget Iori.
Mookierah once said that Iori is like... the best m2 ever.

 

[KAOSTAR]

Don't forget Iori.
Mookierah once said that Iori is like... the best m2 ever.

Iori ***** no doubt, but idk what he has done for mewtwo as a character other than help prove mewtwo can be played at high level.

iori is the only mewtwo that plays like that.

again not saying he didn't do anything only if he has then idk what it is. m2 was established b4 my time.

 

[BigD!!!]

i dunno bob$, you might be right, i forgot about thunders. i dont think i ever saw an actual match of his though, and cunningkitsune was doing shine to jab reset in 2005 (at one of the first smashfests i ever went to) so the only thing thunders is known for these days never struck me as particularly notable or unique