Changing and/or Improving Characters

[Mr Kain]

This topic is for the character that are in ssbm that you think should be changed and/or improved. State a character that should be changed and/or improved and why.

I think Mr. Game&Watch could be changed. They could make it so his attacks do more damage and make him a slim quicker since he get's Ko'd pretty quickly.

 

[Supreme Pie Ninja]

G&W is already strong...

Anyway, they should give back some of the edge that Pika, Kirby, and Ness had in SSB, and make Mewtwo better, and Pichu the fastest character in the game by far. I mean, if he's going to be how he is, at least make him a lot harder to hit.

 

[SSJ4Kazuki]

Pichu shouldn't be the fastest in game, the same speed as C.Falcon.
Mewtwo needs to be heavier,
Link needs his old taunt,

Some of SSB64's sound effects were better than melee's.
Ice climbers-- Better 1 man recovery, Worse 2 man recovery.
On Icicle mountain, I often go too high and die.

 

[Antiself]

Sheik-I think she'd be fine without the chain throwing
Fox-Well, if one removes usmash or AUA then it nerfs fox too much. I'd say leave him the same.
Marth-Just make the Fsmash cover Marth's front instead.
Peach-The list goes forever with peach. (Bowser should be here, and Peach were Bowser is) However, I'd be happy if the dsmash would be non-existent
Falco-Nothing needed. Falco isn't that bad.
C. Falcon-Nothing needed. C. Falcon isn't that bad.
Samus-^^
Jigglypuff-^^
Dr. Mario-^^
Ganondorf-Well, I think he's getting a makeover
Mario-This man needs a KOing move past Fsmash
Ice Climbers-No change needed if chain grabbing is gone.
Luigi-Needs a better dash attack, or be able to follow the dash attack with another attack better.
Link-Needs a spike
Roy-I'm not sure.
DK-Is good where he is.
Pikachu-I'm not sure.
Zelda-Keep the same.
Ness-Needs some of his SSB characteristics
Young Link-Needs a spike too
Yoshi-Third jump and better grab, 'Nuff said.
Kirby-Needs some of his SSB characteristics
Mr. Game & Watch-I'm not sure.
Bowser-Make less punishable. Was seriously messed up in Melee.
Mewtwo-I'm not sure, but he needs a fixup.
Pichu-I'm not sure, but he needs a fixup even more.

Comments? I don't know all the characters as well as other people do.

 

[DonkeyPirate]

I think Samus should be a little bit weaker for as fast as she is. Not to mention she has that dominating projectile game (SPAMMING!). She is underrated on the tier list. Her hitboxes are awkward like if you kick her in the head while she is Nairing, you take dammage but she doesnt.

 

[Sensai]

With the exception of a few characters, I think the game is fine the way it is. That being said, the only character that I need to write about is

BOWSER! Above all else, fix the King of Koopas. He needs to be either faster (a little) or HEAVIER. Right now, you can run circles around him, and he is thrown off just as easily as anyone else. FIX HIM.

 

[Smashmaniac_91]

I think they should make Sheik's f-air a tad weaker.

 

[Sensai]

I think they should make Sheik's f-air a tad weaker.

Nah. I think the only change that should happen with Sheik (if we feel obligated to in fact change her) is that she should be a tad slower. And by a tad, I mean like BARELY noticeable.

 

[Kit Cal-N]

Why does everyone want to change Pichu? He was intentionally made the worse character in the game. The only worse people they could make is Goomba or Magikarp.

I think the way to fix Bowser is to make his shell a semi-invulnerable hitbox. Small stuff like jabs, needles, lasers, etc. he should simply not affect him if it hits shell. Sounds bad, I know, but in Capcom's Marvel series, big characters just absorbed damage, but were still balanced. Also, Bowser needs be less laggy or have his hit boxes out longer.

 

[SSJ4Kazuki]

Samus is fine as she is I say.

Any nerfing would mess it up.

 

[Gamingboy]

Mewtwo must be top tier, if not the strongest character in the game. I mean, this guy is banned from most of Nintendo's traveling tournaments and was able to create a huge hurricane by waving his hand around a bit in the Anime! He would be able to defeat every other character in SSBM quite easily in a "real" (read: not constrained by SSBM abilities) fight with the possible exceptions of Ganondorf and Ness. He must be powered up!

 

[Ferro De Lupe]

Mewtwo must be top tier, if not the strongest character in the game. I mean, this guy is banned from most of Nintendo's traveling tournaments and was able to create a huge hurricane by waving his hand around a bit in the Anime! He would be able to defeat every other character in SSBM quite easily in a "real" (read: not constrained by SSBM abilities) fight with the possible exceptions of Ganondorf and Ness. He must be powered up!

Powered up...no.
Sped up...yes.

Bower is really my only issue. He needs one of two things. Speed increase (lag reduced), or wieght increase (200% to knock him off.)

 

[viper210]

fix bowser somehow. make fox's up smash (on da ground and in da air) weaker. improve falco's recov ery a tad bit. kirby and ness shoiuld have some of their SSB characteristics. pichu should not exist (not creative at all; just seems like space filler). link should have a taunt better than both his previous ones. ganondorf should get his sword. better dash attack 4 luigi. thats about it 4 now.

 

[Viktoria]

Fix Pichu (by fix I mean remove from the frickin' game), if they want to put in joke characters they should let you play as extremely weak goons like Goomba and Shy Guy.
Would be good to play 50-stock Shy Guy vs. 1 stock Falcon...if they added individual stock as an option...

 

[viper210]

hey shy guy aint weak. he's cool and shy. pick on goomba instead. he got no arms so he cant defend himself lol.

 

[dj asakura]

i agree with mewtwo about the speed and i also agree that he should be given a little bit more power.

and from what i saw, someone said something about getting rid of chain grabbing? i think? why?

 

[THK]

Dr. Mario. No change I can think of.

Mario. I can't really think of any changes either. I would like to see him use the hammers from his RPGs though. And alter Mario Tornado with him having the cape on, just for that nostalgic feel. :D

Luigi. Lose the Luigi Missle, please. Give him better recovery and I'd like him to have some thunder abilities like in Superstar Saga. Nothing over the top, but it'd be nice, all I'd really like is better recovery.

Bowser. Make him literally heavy, but not Metal Box heavy, just where he can't be offed the stage so easily, that super armor idea BPS suggested sounds good to me, and speed him up some. And perhaps another projectile, I dunno it seems more Bowser-like if he was throwing hammers or spiked balls or something. XD

Peach. I'd like her to be updated to fit her Super Princess Peach abilities.

Yoshi. I can't think of a **** thing...

DK. Same with Yoshi. I can't think of a way to improve him.

Captain Falcon. I still like his u-smash from SSB64 better, but other than that he's fine.

Ganondorf. I'm torn. I really don't want to see him changed save for a few tweaks, on the other hand I want him to be his own character. I particularly like his WW version, two swords and all that. He wasn't the prettiest fellow but he was also badass in his own right.

Falco. I can't really think of anything besides bettering his recovery. I'd like to see him with a new movelist but I wouldn't know what to suggest.

Fox. I really don't know, I really don't like Fox and I'm sick of playing against him. I probably wouldn't mind if it was his Starfox Adventures version.

Ness. I'd like him to be more like his SSB64 version if not just like it. In today's metagame he wouldn't be so overpowered. Or at the very least, fix the yo-yos.

Kirby. Lose those weird sweet spots, a better dash attack, much like his SSB64 one, make his throws more useful. Give him the full cutter combo already, and it'd be nice if he could combine powers like he could in Kirby 64, though I wouldn't know how to make that work.

Ice Climbers. Can't think of anything.

Samus. Honestly she's fine the way it is. but I'd like to see more of her other beams as seen in Prime 1 and 2.

Zelda. She's fine to me.

Shiek. Stop her chain grabbing ability and what the heck is up with that whip?

Link. Really he's fine in my opinion, if anything, just fix his recovery just a little.

Y.Link. Redo him completely. Link and Young Link are different enough...just keep the boomerang. ^^

Pichu. More range, different moves.

Pikachu. Needs more range, then he's fine. Oh and fix his f-air to be useful.

Jigglypuff. Only thing I can think of is better ground ability, but honestly, he's fine as is.

Mewtwo. Come on, he's freaking Mewtwo! Why the hell is he so horrible? He's supposed to be far heavier and much more powerful. Just enough where he'd fit to the top of mid tier anyway.

Game & Watch. Really he's fine in my opinion.

Marth. Fine as is.

Roy. I'd like to see him differen't but I can't think of anything.

 

[WarioFartPower]

Bowser - needs some more defensive skills

Mewtwo - needs to be able to float for longer and be a little more powerful, with some better moves.

Pichu - needs to go, I don't see the point in him being there when we already have Pikachu

Ganondorf - moves should be edited slightly, he's far too much like Captain Falcon

Jigglypuff - pretty useless in my opinion, I'd rather he wasn't there

Ice Climbers - would rather they weren't there too, there's nothing exciting about them IMO.

Link - should have the ability to transform into the wolf in TP, that would be really cool.

Young Link - I don't see the point in him being there when adult Link is already there.

Doctor Mario - again, what's the point? He's just Mario who fires pills instead of fireballs. Why does the game need two Marios?

 

[THK]

They could probably change Doc into I dunno, a different Mario that's more unique. Like Racoon or Tanuki Mario. Shadow Mario maybe?

 

[Myztek]

Sheik - Fix the chain grabbing. Lower needle priority. Whip is pretty much useless.
Fox - Fine. Maybe make the shine stun a little shorter (but only if the opponent is in the air)
Marth - Reduce the insane knockback.
Peach - Down smash is too powerful.
Falco - Fine.
C. Falcon - Fine.
Samus - Fine.
Ice Climbers - Fine. Maybe fix the chain grabbing.
Jigglypuff - Fine.
Dr. Mario - Fine.
Ganondorf - Make him unique.
Mario - Give him a few more killing moves.
Luigi - Change his running attack. Change the green missile (and if it becomes a non-recovery move, make his up+B like Mario's, only maybe a bit more horizontal movement)
Link - Fine.
Roy - Fine.
DK - Speed up his Fair a bit. Nothing else I can think of.
Pikachu - Fine.
Zelda - Fine.
Ness - Increase his Up+B recovery distance. A bit better grab range. Better yo-yo.
Young Link - Fine.
Yoshi - Make his grab better.
Kirby - Where do I start?
Mr. Game & Watch - Make his shield bigger. Otherwise he's pretty good.
Bowser - He could have been so awesome. Speed up a tad, definitely make heavier.
Mewtwo - Make heavier. Maybe increase speed and priority a bit.

It was a pain bolding/underlining all those names X_X

 

[SSJ4Kazuki]

Agreed: Ness, Kirby and Pikachu were the best in SSB64, I just played it just now.

 

[shanus]

-Gdorf is gonna get a a new moveset.
-Bowser and Mewtwo need buffs. Pichu needs a major revamp, up the speed a bit, increase hitbox of fsmash and upsmash and weaken them slightly to not overpower.
-Peach's dsmash needs to be a little less punishing and hitbox fixing (should not hit a falco trying to dair her head, leave in crouch cancel punishment)
-Buff Ness Yo-Yo usage
-Mario needs slight buff
-Buff Kirby
-Fix Marth fmsash hitbox so it doesnt hit from behind
-Nerf Sheik chainthrow just a tad, lower needle priorty to not cancel full charges (i.e. needle cancelling a samus full chard seems a little absurd)
-Replace Sheik's chain with something useful
-Some way to nerf Fox shine infinite (can't think of a way)

 

[FoxDash]

Im just worried about makin chars less powerful I think its safer to tweak the less populaur weaklings. I mean look what happened to kirby. Was great know hes owned with very little effort. No matter who uses him.

Let me qoute a song "dont gooo changin.... to trrrrry n please me" I also hope my faviorite chars (Fox, Sheik, Samus) dont fall behind the new ones

 

[SSJ4Kazuki]

All these new characters look like they're going to break the game in their own
unique ways. Kinda balances it out, but it kinda doesn't.

In short, the newcomers will own all, except wario, and maybe Snake.

 

[Preet]

Sadly, all of the characters from Melee will most probably not change in Brawl.

... and may be instructed not to lay a hand on any of the 26 characters in the current game, Super Smash Bros. Melee.

They would make Smash Bros. without changing any of the 26 characters in any way whatsoever ...

I believe that was Sakurai.

 

[Zodiak-Lucien]

I think they should get rid of some of the infinate grab combos

 

[DraKmoN001]

Sadly, all of the characters from Melee will most probably not change in Brawl.



I believe that was Sakurai.

That's if Sakurai wasn't going to be working on Brawl. Please be wary of context

That was all fine and good, but it put me in a very tight spot.

As an independent game designer, I had come to E3 to try to foresee what type of work I would take on next.

Several companies had requested my game creation skills, but I asked them to wait until after I had seen everything at E3. That was so I could make plans after seeing each company's next gen machines with my own eyes.

Then this muscled its way in. What if I had declined this offer?

"We'd work to make the game independently, but we might be told to simply focus on making the game Wi-Fi compatible, and may be instructed not to lay a hand on any of the 26 characters in the current game, Super Smash Bros. Melee."

They would make Smash Bros. without changing any of the 26 characters in any way whatsoever. What kind of a new installment would that make. And Mr. Iwata wouldn't be too hot on the idea of just handing the franchise over to someone else. Probably.

So came the sudden request to create Smash Bros. and the related complications.
Should I do it? Or not?

 

[WarioFartPower]

They could probably change Doc into I dunno, a different Mario that's more unique. Like Racoon or Tanuki Mario. Shadow Mario maybe?

That's actually a really good idea, because Shadow Mario isn't actually Mario, so it wouldn't be the same as having two Marios.

Shadow Mario could use his paintbrush as a weapon, perhaps a dab of his brush could slow the other characters down.

Shadow Mario would be much better than Dr. Mario.

I just hope they don't add fludd Mario though...

 

[Sensai]

Sadly, all of the characters from Melee will most probably not change in Brawl.

(quote)

I believe that was Sakurai.

You might notice that that says 'may' which implies that it's hypothetical. It means absolutely nothing.

 

[MarthHasASword]

i think every character needs to change slightly, shiek needs to cut down on her combos.

 

[Myztek]

I don't see why they wouldn't make ANY alterations. Surely they will.

 

[DJ Xero]

Ok. All of the Clones need to be changed into their own movesets or turned into a costume.

Fox's usmash needs a big nerf. Uair needs smaller nerf.

Kirby needs either bigger sweetspots or remove sweetspots entirely and make him stronger.

Luigi needs better Dash attack or less endlag.

Bowser needs a complete character overhaul.

Zelda and Shiek should be separated as different characters, and make chaingrabbing harder with shiek.

Marth should be same strength overall on the blade.

Link Needs better recovery.

C.Falcon needs less horizontal power on fair.

Ness needs Yo-Yo Powerups.

Puff's Sing should either be cancelable or the other characters should be asleep for longer.

Peach needs less horiz recovery.

DK is good.

G&Watch should have less vertical movement, and dtilt should do less upward movement.

Ice Climbers need better one man recovery, lower two man.

Mario needs finisher moves other than fsmash.

Mewtwo needs to be heavier and have more kill moves.

Pikachu needs better dair.

Samus needs a bomb jump overhaul, and grapple needs to be quicker in the air.

Yoshi's dtilt needs less knockback and not make it set knockback.

Can't think of much else, but Criticize me as much as you want. I think that all of the clones need to change their movesets. It worked for Soul Calibur, it could work on smash too.

 

[Gerbality]

Ganon needs a whole new move set, because he has a sword and uses magic.
If they have King Ashnard(FE) he would be a clone of the new ganon
C. Falcons rival from the intro movie should replace the old Ganon

Y. Link should use Deku nuts(like mewtwos confusion) instead of a boomerang
and he should also use Deku sticks(like beam sword but breakable) instead of bombs
Replace the bow with slingshot(same physics, but not on fire)

what do you guys think?

 

[DSB]

They should replace Y.Link with Cel-Shaded Link and give him moves from WW, Minish Cap and older Zeldas.

 

[Inferno_blaze]

The reason jigglypuff's sing move is so crap is because if they slept for longer then it would give him enough time to jump and sleep them, giving a ridiculously easy kill. Anyone ever thought of that?

 

[RWB]

Fox's usmash needs a big nerf. Reflector also needs a big nerf. Uair needs smaller nerf.

Kirby needs more knockback and less lag.

Luigi is fine.

Bowser needs either higher speed, or even stronger defenses. He could also use stronger offense.

Zelda moveset could be kept, but the effects from the different attacks should be changed, plus she needs some speed.

Marth should be same strength overall on the blade, and be weakened to about the same level as Roy.

Link needs a little higher attack speed.

C.Falcon needs less horizontal power on fair, and perhaps a poering down altogether.

Ness needs either speed or power.

Will bring up the others later.

 

[pineappleupsetshark]

Peach gets her Super Princess Peach skillz for B moves.

 

[Pyr0]

Yoshi

I Want Yoshi's [B + >] Egg Roll to be removed.
Change Yoshi's [B + ^] Egg Throw to be the new [B + >]
Add new [B + ^] Called the Flutter Float

Flutter Float:

Basicly once done, Yoshi will move its feet in a similar fashion to its second jump,

however, he wont move at all, just float mid-air, while floating, you must repeteadly

press [A] to gain vertical movement, no horizonal movement can be achieved untill the

move is over by using DI. While Flutter Floating Yoshi can use any other Moves as

if he were on the ground.

This moveset revamp will not only make Yoshi have a bit of an easier time recovering,

it will also add to its uniqueness, wich is something I have always loved about him in Smash.
(Also helps hes already amazing Edge to Stage gameplay; Like the Edge-Canceled Egg

throw)

 

[Kunitsuna]

- Erase Sheik. He´s not important to the franchise anymore, and is way overpowered.
- Nerf Fox.
- Nerf Marth.
- Boost Kirby.
- Boost Pikachu.
- De-clone Ganondorf.
- De-clone Falco.
- Further tweak the Luigi.
- Freaking Boost Mewtwo.
- Heavify Bowser.
- Pichu:
a) Make it really fast and de-clone it
b) Make it really powerful and de-clone it
c) Replace it with Pichu Bros.
d) Replace it with Pachirisu
e) Not have it at all

 

[Super Smash Master]

Get rid of Pichu, Doc, Roy, and Young Link. Give Falco and Gannondorf new movesets. Make Ness, Kirby and Pikachu actually GOOD like in the original. Ness and Kirby were my mains until they ruined them.