Changes to Charizard in Ver. 1.0.6

[Charey]

Does the 3DS FD and WiiU FD have different blast zones? That would give different KO% without changing knockback.

 

[KuroganeHammer]

Does the 3DS FD and WiiU FD have different blast zones? That would give different KO% without changing knockback.

They do.

 

[Grizzlpaw]

I wonder if any of our Frame Data, Priority, or Super Armor changed



Edit:

Ok, so this is cool:

Dtilt hits 9-??, FAF 31

Down from 11-12, FAF 33

Didn't see this.

HYYUUSSSS!~ <3

 

[Steeler]

Does the 3DS FD and WiiU FD have different blast zones? That would give different KO% without changing knockback.

I did it side by side on two 3DS. Oh well. Thanks @ KuroganeHammer .

 

[Grizzlpaw]

it ain't the matchup thread, but what do you guys think of Mewtwo?

Mewtwo UpB is janky.

Most Mewtwo's fail to autosnap the ledge.
Free Downsmash is fun

 

[KuroganeHammer]

I'm going to sleep, no one put forward any other possible changes and I cbf going through everything.

I might make a Charizard "official" patch notes thread for this section but idk if it's worth it.

 

[Vakyoom]

Does the 3DS FD and WiiU FD have different blast zones? That would give different KO% without changing knockback.

Only they would have had to change something to get the KO difference.. either they shortened the blast zones on FD even more(HIGHLY unlikely as every other KO off the top hits at the same %'s) or they buffed Fly... I'm going to check a 1.0.5 Wii U to test it now....

nobody make any grandiose assumptions while i'm gone lol.

edit - so my Wii U already updated to 1.0.6 magically, even though i haven't touched it since the patch came out... Either way Fly KO's Mario on FD at 102% from ANYWHERE on the map. If you push him to the edge you'll get a diagonal death lazer, but everywhere else is up at like an 80-85% angle.

Seeing how fly KO's at 102% on the Wii U(vs 112% on the 3DS -- definitely a tighter blast zone for the 3DS) i would like to triple confirm the Fly KB buff but i'm waiting on my friend to get off work and check his un-updated Wii U.

For reference i just compared Usmash, fully charged vs Mario on FD. 3DS will KO at 75% and Wii U will KO at 70%. Decent comparison(The KO % drops by about 7-8% of the 3DS version when tested on the Wii U). That matches the math from 112% Fly KO on 3ds vs 102% Fly KO on Wii U.

Anyone else with a Wii U on 1.0.5 plz feel free to check what % Fly KO's mario at on FD. Lets make sure this is a thing for the third time i guess.

 

[Vakyoom]

Does the 3DS FD and WiiU FD have different blast zones? That would give different KO% without changing knockback.

The Wii U blast zone is smaller but that SHOULD NOT make a difference between 2 most recent versions on the same console. If 3DS 1.0.5 and 3DS 1.0.6 have different KO ranges for the same move(but none of the other moves that KO in the same direction are different from 1.0.5-6) then the blast zones didn't change from version to version. I need someone to confirm with a 1.0.5 Wii U version to see what the lowest % FLy can KO at but it certainly isn't busted until we find out that Wii U 1.0.5 was also a 102% KO with Fly.

IF FOR WHATEVER REASON Fly KO's at 102% on Wii U 1.0.5 then we have confirmation that the Wii U and 3DS versions got different values, despite the blast zone difference.

Maybe it's not a knockback increase but there is enough of a difference to make Fly KO earlier(at least on 3DS version so far)

 

[KuroganeHammer]

Once again, if something changed, it's possibly the angle (originally 75 degrees).

 

[-LzR-]

@ KuroganeHammer How is research going? Any new findings or deconfirmed rumors? How do you check this data, I would like to help if I have the possibility to do that.

 

[KuroganeHammer]

@ KuroganeHammer How is research going? Any new findings or deconfirmed rumors? How do you check this data, I would like to help if I have the possibility to do that.

I haven't really looked, I checked a couple of things @boozer posted but only because he knows the character inside and out ( ͡° ͜ʖ ͡°)

But even still the only thing I found was dtilt.

I boycotted custom moves a long time ago also, so I refuse to look into them. (**** dragon rush)

If there's anything you desperately need me to check, I'll do it for you.

 

[-LzR-]

If there's anything you desperately need me to check, I'll do it for you.

I'm curious about the Dtilt change.
Also with Uthrow receiving more damage, has it's frame data changed in any way? If not I still don't see a reason to use this throw.

 

[FlynnCL]

Ok, so this is cool:

Dtilt hits 9-??, FAF 31

Down from 11-12, FAF 33

Oh wow, this is correct. I felt like the move was faster but I blamed it on placebo.

Going into Training Mode and buffering inputs using 2 controllers and L advance, Charizard will always hit Ganondorf with down-tilt before his down-tilt or forward-tilt hitboxes come out (and they're both frame 10). Ganondorf wins with his frame 8 jab, so frame 9 seems to be correct. Nice!

 

[KuroganeHammer]

I'm curious about the Dtilt change.
Also with Uthrow receiving more damage, has it's frame data changed in any way? If not I still don't see a reason to use this throw.

I don't think so, it just does 2% more on the throw hit (BUFF TO DOUBLES UTHROW???) (the throw can kill other fighters than the person being thrown before the actual throw does) and 1% more on the release hit.

 

[Strider755]

It's about time Lizardon got a little love. 1% extra recoil isn't too bad, and now the up throw isn't complete crap.

 

[-LzR-]

The 1% extra recoil wouldn't be bad if the move didn't already do way too much recoil. I would only consider Flare Blitz over Dragon Rush if it did no recoil at all.

 

[KuroganeHammer]

It's honestly a hidden buff, now Charizard players won't use it.

 

[Steeler]

It would have been better if the extra percent were on the explosion... now you take 5% for recovering with it...

 

[KuroganeHammer]

GOOD.

 

[Strider755]

Hey guys, i could've sworn i had an account here but i had to remake it apparently.... nice...

Anyway, i've done a bunch of Testing to compare to my % and KO range notes from zard from 1.0.4(since he got no changes in 1.0.5 as far as i know this should be an easy side-by-side) and i've found quite a few more buffs that slipped thru the cracks...

All of my original and new testing is done vs Mario on FD in training....

*Flare blitz was already touched on, but 1% extra damage isn't a big deal.

* Uthrow was confirmed too! An increase from 8% total to 8% on ascent and 3% on impact(11% total!). Doesn't mean i'll want to use it but sure, it's a nice touch up.

* U smash still hits for the same amount despite some peoples claims(16% fresh, 22% charged), KOs at the same %'s and doesn't feel any faster/more efficient.

* B Up(Fly) does the same damage but it KOs at 112% on mid-ground FD vs 123% in my old notes. Confirmed as KO @ 123% on 1.0.5 3ds! CONFIRMED!!! YAY!!

* Fair has a new sweet spot at the tip of the move(It seems this sweet spot is just the old inside sweet spot being switched to the edge of the attack). KO's at 107% vs my old values of 133% with the sweet spot for each version at the edge of FD.

Fixes to the hit box on Fair increase the Knockback %'s with out touching the damage(. It appears they swapped the early sweet spot KO values with the later frames of the attack to make for a stronger hit when you catch the enemy with a max-range Fair(Feels like range matters but it's really just making sure you hit on frame 10-11 of the move, as opposed to the old sweet spot of Frame 8-9), Knockback values may have been adjusted(to achieve KO's at lower %'s than appear in 1.0.5). In addition to the sweet-spot swap, the slashing arc appears a little more crisp and detailed vs 1.0.5!! cool!

To double confirm the Fair i tested with percentages from spawn location. 1.0.5 will not KO with Fair below 156%(155% will not be far enough without DI)... As of 1.0.6 you can now KO mario from as low as 115% from his spawn location on FD training mode... KNOCKBACK INCREASE PENDING(though it seems likely), SWEET SPOT FRAME-SWAP CONFIRMED!!! YAY!!

* Nair has less lag at the end, as long as you do the Nair as soon as you short hop(Like old school falco lazer-walking) you can shield as soon as you hit the ground. It was like this on 1.0.5 apparently, w/e lol

Possible conditional changes, need to be confirmed

* Down B(Rock Smash) KO's 1% sooner but that's debatable as a buff, could also be because dmg varies from 19-24% based on placement lol.

* Ftilt does the same damage but KO's at 121% at the edge vs 125% from my old notes. BUSTED in side-by-side, mario lands at the same spot on the map after getting back from the ledge. KO's at same percentages from that same spot in the 2 versions.

* Bthrow and Dthrow get a mini buff! Bthrow KO's at 162% vs 164% at the edge(after both you and mario get up off the ledge) and Dthrow KO's at 128% on stages edge vs 130% when side by side testing with a 1.0.5 3ds. Slight buffs are nice!

* Fsmash does about 1-1.5% more damage when fully charged And also has a knockback sweet spot at the center of his head as opposed to the start of his neck, it appears as thought they've switched where the sweet spot was before. Uncharged KO's at 91% @ center stage vs 95% with the head, and the start of the neck now KO's at 95% instead of 91%. I'm still testing this to confirm, the sweet spot seems to change with every attack....

* D smash appears to KO about 2% later than 1.0.5(126% @ center stage vs 128% current) when the sweet spot is hit(about grab range away from your opponent)

Most of the situational changes may be figured out with Data mining but the Changes to Fair and Up B KO %'s are CONFIRMED!!

http://smashboards.com/threads/mewt...ted-wed-11pm-pst.398902/page-22#post-19000834

LONG LIVE THE ZARD!

Those ^throw, >air, and >tilt buffs are a Lizardon fanboy's dream! It is finally possible to finish a guy off with Seismic Toss, with only a 1% increase in Fblitz recoil! Lizardon, kaen hosha!