Changes in 1.06

[RyokoYaksa]

Don't forget Jigglypuff

I AM curious though if something insignificant was changed though. I had found this way to force Mario to fall out of Usmash in training in 1.0.4-5, by going to 100%, then standing point-blank next to him and doing a fully charged Usmash. It would drop him maybe 40% of the time, but for the life of me it won't be replicated in 1.0.6, he ends up getting (correctly) caught every time (Tested way too many times.) even though he goes in the exact same places during the hits.

Just popping in to say that Mario can still be thrown out of the Usmash sideways. I had a CPU dummy set to Jump right next to Zelda, and whenever I Usmashed when his feet were around her waist level, he flew out. It's pretty specific spacing for that to happen, but I did get it to happen 5 times in a row.

 

[Einyuri]

The Usmash is easier to hit people with all hits yes, but I've still seen some fall out of it mid-attack.

Now her Fsmash.. My goodness. Even now it catches me off guard when it fully connects.

 

[BJN39]

Taking this sis~

 

[Brinzy]

Very slight buffs all around, but it's in the right direction. Combined with nerfs on troublesome matchups, I'd say it turned out about as well as it could for Zelda.

I'm satisfied.

 

[Einyuri]

Very slight buffs all around, but it's in the right direction. Combined with nerfs on troublesome matchups, I'd say it turned out about as well as it could for Zelda.

I'm satisfied.

Agreed. I'm happy that they didn't do anything drastic with her, touched up on some of her more problematic issues (FSmash angle fixed.) while other top tier picks/unfavorable matchups were nerfed.

The kind of buffs I'd like to see.. Now.. To wait for Lucina's time of buffs. (Yeah I know she got buffed in this more recent patch, but those were minor touches. 0.5% and 1% increases on some moves.)

 

[r_greening1]

Honestly I'm just happy they bothered to take a closer look at her moveset.

It only took 14 years and 4 months for them to fix it.

Top tier, here we come!!!

 

[Suicidal_Donuts]

Guys, I just fought the best Mewtwo I've seen. Mewtwo has a Wall of Pain. A WALL OF PAIN. I thought only Jiggles was supposed to have that, but nope. I got Fair'd from one side of the stage continuously to the blast line, and died around 50% (after all those Fairs). This will be a serious problem.
Also, his tilts' range and combo potential is ridiculous... He's still extremely easy to KO with Lightning Kicks though hahaha.

 

[Princess Toady]

I just love the new forward Smash. It's so AWESOME !

 

[Zylach]

Yeah, playing against a lot of really good players yesterday, I found that people (Mewtwo included) fell out of usmash so it's not that much better but fsmash is feeling really good now. Plus, the nerfs to the higher tiers helps us dramatically. I challenged one of the best players in the Madison, WI area to a money match and beat his Diddy Kong. Yes, Diddy Kong. Those nerfs are real. Dtilt definitely wasn't changed now that I've played around with it more. That placebo effect must've worn off by now. No other changes to Zelda as far as I can tell but the nerfs to her bad MU's make up for it.

I faced a lot of Mewtwos as well. One person mained Mewtwo back in melee and had a really good grasp of him for sm4sh but didn't really have options against Zelda. My only concern about him is his dtilt/utilt. With the range and speed they have, it can be difficult to get in on him but Mewtwo's aerial followups aren't that dangerous and he has a very difficult time killing us since he's so ridiculously slow. I have no fear of him.

edit: @Macchiato, you suggested a while ago that I go flare/strike instead of blaze/breaker and that same Diddy you watched me lose to several weeks ago was the same Diddy I just beat yesterday by getting two kills on him with flare specifically (Plus Diddy nerfs). In other words, flare feels like a direct upgrade just like you said. Thanks for the advice because it's helped my game significantly. I wish we had been streaming/recording (It wasn't a tourney or anything) so I could share that match but maybe next weekend, we'll stream sm4sh at our local bi-weekly tournament so I can show off more of Zelda beating up on the high tiers.

 

[Suicidal_Donuts]

I also mained Mewtwo in Melee (I haven't touched it but once in at least 6 years, so I have to readapt to him) and was able to pull off the Wall of Pain with him against a Ness or Luigi (can't remember) on my second try. My opponent pretty much couldn't do anything because his Fair is like Sheik's pre-patch when in that position, and his air speed is good enough to keep going while they're in hitstun. He's surely beatable and an easy target, but RIP if you do get hit by that. The only time you'll have to worry is between 30-45%, otherwise you'll be knocked too far for it to be too deadly. His tilts are mainly the problem for most characters going up against him, since it gives him such an easy advantage.
I honestly haven't really noticed the nerfs on the top tiers yet... They still feel just as powerful as before when fighting them, but a bit less annoying. The Luma losing HP did barely anything for the matchup, since Zelda can get it off the stage easier than several other characters can. I'll still have to check on how the other top tier's nerfs affect us.

 

[AncientCode42]

I think the changes to Zelda's F-Smash was a wonderful change. It connects so much better and I've been testing it a lot and it doesn't seem to have people fall out of it like before.. Zelda greatly needed this, it took them a long while, but they fixed it. She now has a reliable Smash option and extra KO move. I've also noticed this with her U-Smash too.. Though I'm not sure. F-Smash works so much better than Melee and Brawl as well.

Although I wish the Phantom was storable.. It just looks to stay out longer with slightly less end lag, though correct me if I'm wrong. Oh well I still have Custom Phantoms.

 

[Zylach]

I still find phantom to be questionably useful since it's still really predictable, avoidable, and punishable. On a related note, did the changes to phantom also affect the custom phantoms or just default? The changes are too subtle for me to notice on default let alone customs since I don't use the move very often.

 

[BJN39]

I still find phantom to be questionably useful since it's still really predictable, avoidable, and punishable. On a related note, did the changes to phantom also affect the custom phantoms or just default? The changes are too subtle for me to notice on default let alone customs since I don't use the move very often.

Thinkman had confirmed for me that the changes extend to her custom Phantoms as well.

 

[RyokoYaksa]

I still find phantom to be questionably useful since it's still really predictable, avoidable, and punishable. On a related note, did the changes to phantom also affect the custom phantoms or just default? The changes are too subtle for me to notice on default let alone customs since I don't use the move very often.

It doesn't look like it. At least not the marginally reduced endlag portion.

 

[AncientCode42]

I still find phantom to be questionably useful since it's still really predictable, avoidable, and punishable. On a related note, did the changes to phantom also affect the custom phantoms or just default? The changes are too subtle for me to notice on default let alone customs since I don't use the move very often.

I think it does apply to her customs for it. However. I myself would have to see.. I use the Phantom Strike often due to its defensive properties and very quick charge up. I mostly know it's to her default for sure, just not her customs.

 

[Zylach]

Lol, so, one person says yes, another says no, and another says not sure. I guess we'll be waiting for the datamining then huh? How long does this process even take? I can't say I've ever done it or even looked into it to be honest.

 

[AncientCode42]

Lol, so, one person says yes, another says no, and another says not sure. I guess we'll be waiting for the datamining then huh? How long does this process even take? I can't say I've ever done it or even looked into it to be honest.

It's actually significantly faster to charge more than Shield Breaker and Default Phantom. It doesn't take long really. You can actually throw it out before being attacked depending on how close the opponent is to you, you can use it pretty quickly. It still has a bit of start-up, but the payoff is it's always in front of Zelda so it's like a wall protecting her of some sort. However it's a good way to keep people away at times and does like 28 % when both sword swings connect.

Even not charged it sends opponents back pretty far. It's charge up pretty much fixes the problems of the default. This is at least what I've gotten from it.. Faster projectile to space and add pressure.Phantom Strike gives a better anti-approach tool for Zelda. The downside is that Phantom Strike doesn't kill and lack of range.

 

[Zylach]

It's actually significantly faster to charge more than Shield Breaker and Default Phantom. It doesn't take long really. You can actually throw it out before being attacked depending on how close the opponent is to you, you can use it pretty quickly. It still has a bit of start-up, but the payoff is it's always in front of Zelda so it's like a wall protecting her of some sort. However it's a good way to keep people away at times and does like 28 % when both sword swings connect.

Even not charged it sends opponents back pretty far. It's charge up pretty much fixes the problems of the default. This is at least what I've gotten from it.. Faster projectile to space and add pressure.Phantom Strike gives a better anti-approach tool for Zelda. The downside is that Phantom Strike doesn't kill and lack of range.

Oh, I was talking about the process of datamining to determine the changes lol. I'm familiar with phantom strike. I've been using it a lot recently in fact and it's a lot better than the other two though I do like the range the other two have.

 

[AncientCode42]

Oh, I was talking about the process of datamining to determine the changes lol. I'm familiar with phantom strike. I've been using it a lot recently in fact and it's a lot better than the other two though I do like the range the other two have.

Oh sorry my bad then. lol Well I like the Shield Breaker one a lot. But yes I use Strike a lot too. Both of them are better than default. I didn't know you meant the changes, so my apologizes there. lol

 

[Anomilus]

Well, is it me or are the Lightning Kicks (that no longer have lightning) easier to land now? I've landed more tonight than I ever have. Maybe I just got better over night, I don't know.

Good, I wasn't the only one. Same happened to me. I only play Zelda occasionally, but I do regularly try and land Lightning Kicks. Just as Suicidal_Donuts said, it seemed like I was landing them more often suddenly, as if I just got a tiny bit better at it suddenly.

Not trying to push a confirmation on it changing, but I would really like for somebody to test it out in case of coincidence.

 

[Meek Moths]

guys, just sit back and wait for hitbox and frame data to be released, until then we want know for sure

 

[Rickster]

Kicks feel exactly the same to me...

I'm more curious about Usmash being changed like Fsmash did, although it still feels the same to me.

 

[Suicidal_Donuts]

Usmash still seems to be the same pretty much, I've still seen people fall out of it (but I can't remember who since I hardly use it), but Fsmash being fixed was good enough for me.
And also on the Lightning Kicks, I sweet spotted one against a Sheik while her hitbox for Bouncing Fish was out, KO'd her and got away unscathed. Does BF not have transcendent property? I've also sweet spotted one against a Mario on the ground that I'm quite certain didn't touch him as the hitbox was for the most part above him. Like I've said before, there is the possibility that I've just been consistently lucky or I just magically got better.
I'm starting to forget what 1.0.5 felt like though (except when facing Diddy or Sonic), so those first day changes that we thought we noticed (The Phantom, Uair, etc) are wearing off. I know the Phantom did get a slight buff, but did Uair really get faster/less startup? It was never a move I used often, except for a surprise kill (if it did land). I also feel like Nair causes more screen shaking or different hit effects than before, even though it's the same move outside of that.

 

[AncientCode42]

Usmash still seems to be the same pretty much, I've still seen people fall out of it (but I can't remember who since I hardly use it), but Fsmash being fixed was good enough for me.
And also on the Lightning Kicks, I sweet spotted one against a Sheik while her hitbox for Bouncing Fish was out, KO'd her and got away unscathed. Does BF not have transcendent property? I've also sweet spotted one against a Mario on the ground that I'm quite certain didn't touch him as the hitbox was for the most part above him. Like I've said before, there is the possibility that I've just been consistently lucky or I just magically got better.
I'm starting to forget what 1.0.5 felt like though (except when facing Diddy or Sonic), so those first day changes that we thought we noticed (The Phantom, Uair, etc) are wearing off. I know the Phantom did get a slight buff, but did Uair really get faster/less startup? It was never a move I used often, except for a surprise kill (if it did land). I also feel like Nair causes more screen shaking or different hit effects than before, even though it's the same move outside of that.

I was using U-Smash as Zelda myself and it hasn't changed from my point of view. F-Smash has.. And Uair does look faster to me as well. Personally I feel Zelda's Nair needs more range.

 

[Dihan]

I'm not convinced usmash was changed either. I had a Shulk pop out of it a couple of hits into the attack at a low percentage.

 

[frest123]

I also feel like Nair causes more screen shaking or different hit effects than before, even though it's the same move outside of that.

Same here. In addition to what you said, some weird fall outs that have never happened to me have been happening for me lately. With Zelda's Nair in this new patch I mean.

The Phantom tweaking is pretty neat. Phantom lasts long enough to use it as a cover for Din's Fire against projectile users (because now it lasts long enough to completely protect you from projectiles during the DF lag). The 9 secs nerf on recovery time is definitely noticeable though.....

I also feel a change in Lightning Kick. They feel like they land more consistently and some times, it feels like they even kill earlier.... o.o (The latter is probs just a feeling) One change I'm almost positive about is that they extended the range of Fair's sweetspot. It has more more range in the front most part.

They might have also increased the hitbox size of Din's Fire's sourspot.

I haven't posted in a while or said much about Zelda yet because her changes are nothing too big..... Just waiting for the data dumps to confirm stuff. I do find it very slightly easier to play as her and a little more rewarding.

Any changes to Ftilt you guys realised...? I feel something's..... different..... More knockback maybe?

 

[Uncertain Title]

Any changes to Ftilt you guys realised...? I feel something's..... different..... More knockback maybe?

I'm not sure. It can still whiff despite them being next to you, but I don't know to what extent.

 

[Zylach]

ftilt doesn't feel any different. It still has a blind spot, it still kills at the same % and does the same amount of damage. The only differences that I can't directly test are hitboxes and frame data which might be subtly different.

 

[~Frozen~]

On a related note, did the changes to phantom also affect the custom phantoms or just default? The changes are too subtle for me to notice on default let alone customs since I don't use the move very often.

Thinkman had confirmed for me that the changes extend to her custom Phantoms as well.

Just tested Phantom Strike vs the Default. Default has less endlag, but the phantom stays out longer, indicating that her customs weren't changed to reflect the default's new stats.

 

[PUK]

How did you tested?

 

[RyokoYaksa]

How did you tested?

I had him use two Zeldas in training mode with Phantom Slash and an alt Phantom with the L slow down feature to ensure they went off at the same time. No one else was testing it.