Chaingrabbing with Marth

[K_Walk]

Not to repeatedly reference past performances of long ago, but looking at the Ken (Marth) vs. Bombsoldier (Falco) matches, I noticed Ken was very consistent with his chaingrabbing.

Yet, in recent performances at MLGs, I have seen in matches that Ken cannot as easily sustain his chaingrabbing on similar fastfallers (aka Fox, Chillendude's). I am also seeing pro Marths sort of dash dance right after Fox is thrown up and begins to fall. They dash to the right and back to their original position and grab again.

My questions are:

What was Bombsoldier doing incorrectly that enabled him to be chaingrabbed by Marth so easily? (Esp. cause the Marth wasn't doing the quick dashdance, etc.) What could he have done to get out of this chaingrab? (Smash DI?)

When (at what %'s) should a Marth utilize the dashdance, Utilt, or any other method to continue his chaingrab on a fastfaller/space animal? Also, should the Marth player be closely studying his opponent's DI to determine whether he should just press Z again, or try something different?

Responses are greatly appreciated.

 

[JTHMbyJV]

I think BS was getting chaingrabbed so easily because most Japanese smashers don't chaingrab. They find it dishonorable, so he wasn't used to it I guess.

 

[ChopingBoard]

well when i chain grab i use alittle attacks during the grab to try to get them to wiggle out and throw them when tehy try that. watch some chaingrabs and notice most of the time they do a few hits and you hear the other guy wigle like crazy and when they do that they get tossed. it's like putting the person where you want them. then again i might be wrong.

 

[Silent Wolf]

I think BS was getting chaingrabbed so easily because most Japanese smashers don't chaingrab. They find it dishonorable, so he wasn't used to it I guess.

Tell that to Kentaross, lol.
When a marth's chain throwing a fox, he usually has to pivot grab around 20%-25%.
when chain throwing a falco, its around 30%-35%

 

[Ky Kiske]

Mikael chaingrabs. He did it to Isai.

Depending on their damage (don't remember exactly how much) you can use an uptilt to reset the chain grab.

 

[Cactuar]

What was Bombsoldier doing incorrectly that enabled him to be chaingrabbed by Marth so easily? (Esp. cause the Marth wasn't doing the quick dashdance, etc.) What could he have done to get out of this chaingrab? (Smash DI?)

When (at what %'s) should a Marth utilize the dashdance, Utilt, or any other method to continue his chaingrab on a fastfaller/space animal? Also, should the Marth player be closely studying his opponent's DI to determine whether he should just press Z again, or try something different?

Responses are greatly appreciated.

The dash grab thing is a pivot grab, but because you can JC it, it doesn't even have to be a pivot.

Some people *points at M2K* can almost always chaingrab 0-death regardless of how well you can DI it. The only time I've seen Ken have issues with messing up chaingrabs was when a platform was interfering or if he was having an off day. Ken was using pivot grabs in his matches against BS, so I don't know what you are talking about there >.>

You can actually just memorize possible DI at any % for chaingrabbing (M2K has done that with Marth vs Fox/Falco). He knows how much DI would influence the character and can react to it regardless of how you DI.

 

[flaco]

well there 3 different grabs jc grabs dash grab and shield grab and chaingrabbing with marth is up for fastfallers and foward for floties depending on level and di

 

[BrTarolg]

the moment they start wiggling, throw.

if they wiggle their control stick, its much harder for them to DI properly

other than that dont forget about techchasing aswell <very easy with marths long range>

 

[Courtofdoom]

So what is the point of a pivot or DC grab against a Fox or Falco at those respective percentages?

 

[Omega_Star]

Chaingrabbing is my weakest aspect with Marth. I don't get to fight space animals, let alone people in general, all that often At least not as often as I'd like >_>

 

[cowboyardee]

Ok, I know about the pivot grab thing (I'm bad at it, but that's besides the point). My question comes into play on a cg after 30%. And rather than make a new topic, I thought I'd ask here.

After 30% on the space animals, assuming no trouble with platforms or moving levels, when do you regrab, when do you utilt, and when do you go for the fsmash? It seems to be DI dependant, but I don't really know what is optimal here. Do you utilt when he DIs away from the edge? When he doesn't DI at all? Do you utilt looking for a regrab or looking for a tipper at med %? At what % is it best to start looking for the tipper?

Anyone who has this down to a science, can you please tell me what to do?

 

[booshk]

Ok, I know about the pivot grab thing (I'm bad at it, but that's besides the point). My question comes into play on a cg after 30%. And rather than make a new topic, I thought I'd ask here.

After 30% on the space animals, assuming no trouble with platforms or moving levels, when do you regrab, when do you utilt, and when do you go for the fsmash? It seems to be DI dependant, but I don't really know what is optimal here. Do you utilt when he DIs away from the edge? When he doesn't DI at all? Do you utilt looking for a regrab or looking for a tipper at med %? At what % is it best to start looking for the tipper?

Anyone who has this down to a science, can you please tell me what to do?

from experience i think this is it for falco..
1-20 u dont have to even chase them to grab, u can stand still but u have to turn directions depending on di.
20-28 same thing except u might have to actually chase them cuz they can di too far
28-32 or something u cant grab them if they dont di. basically u can't grab them unless u pivot grab
immediately after pivot grab
it should be like 35 %
thats when you u-tilt
and then chase their di to catch them again,
hit them once againw ith the grab, and throw them up, if they di the way ur facing u should be able to tip them

for fox pivot grab is around 24-27 i dunno when to u-tilt or tipper

 

[cowboyardee]

If they don't DI the way I'm facing after that last throw, do I utilt to tipper?

 

[knightpraetor]

no one answered his last question..and i would like to know as well..can you uptilt again and try for tipper or should you just go for an aerial combo and try to get them up to 70-80


also, i was curious about what lord knight says here
08-13-2006, 07:49 PM
I just copied one of my posts on this because I'm lazy.

Practice on Level 4's - they DI randomly, so you can get used to reacting (I still know a few people who guess where people DI )


Typically, you can start with grab > fthrow > grab so your first uthrow on him will be easier to catch. This only works at 0-5%. Beginning at 12%, if the Fox DI's behind you, you have to dash JC grab to catch him, but if he DI's forward, then you can reach until about 28%. At 30% (use the number as a guideline), Fox can escape by timing a shine well. You can stop this by shffl'ing a uair quickly and grabbing again. This is difficult at 30%, however, so instead, while he's grabbed, hit him once or twice before uthrowing (twice if they aren't mashing). 50% is the next landmark. If they DI at 50%, you can dash attack > fsmash if they DI the dash attack forwards (which they probably will if they are inexperienced). If they keep not DI'ing/DI'ing forward, continue uair grab. The chaingrab ends at about 70% (use as a guideline), when uair keeps them in the air. Do NOT end the chaingrab if they land on the ground after a uair, because they can escape, and it's not fun.

i'm guessing that marth's uairs can't be used like this cause they knock fox too far..but even so...what about the possibility of the fox or falco shining immediately ..is that the point where you start using uptilts...

anyways, basically as i understand it at the end after the first uptilt to grab combo..they are going to get out on the enxt throw regardless so you need to either go for a tipper or go for an aerial combo if they try a different direction

unless of course it's safe to try a second time for an uptilt to grab combo?

also, as i understand it the uptilt should be done backwards so that you don't knock them too high?