Chain Grabs on Ivysaur

[Myles5000]

At NSA2 I was playing a Kirby as Ivysaur and I noticed that at lower percents (0~45) I could not escape the jab reset after down throw. Fast fallers will hit the ground quickly after the throw and have the opportunity to tech, and floaties will get knocked too far away. It seemed like Ivy was at this awful weight that keeps her from going too far after the throw, but is floaty enough that she doesn't hit the ground before Kirby jabs, allowing him to regrab for free. Anyone else have any insight on this? I really hope that this already incredibly difficult matchup for Ivy isn't made worse by a free chaingrab...

 

[TreK]

Hmm, I'll have to check into that, I did not know about it.

So far the only CGs I tested are Marth's fthrow/dthrow CGs, and CF's uthrow CG. If you know about any other please share the intel x)
I did not play a character which got CG'd too hard in Brawl so I'm new to this feeling... And I now understand why Diddy is the most hated character in the universe, this thing is infuriating lmao

 

[TimeSmash]

Kirby has a lot of chain grabs of certain characters. I main Zelda and he can usually get two or three off me before I can escape, and I have seen him CG Meta Knight too, though that might have been due to bad DI in both cases.

 

[Ogopogo]

Incredibly difficult matchup? Ivy's range really gives Kirby trouble. That's his biggest weakness.

 

[kevinw0w]

Incredibly difficult matchup? Ivy's range really gives Kirby trouble. That's his biggest weakness.

I used to think the kirby matchup was even, maybe even slightly in ivy's favor, but I'm now convinced that it's very hard for ivy.
1. Kirby can get free solarbeams
2. Kirby has a dthrow chaingrab on a lot of characters. Ivy in particular is a big victim of this. A texas Kirby discovered that after 40%, a regrab is guaranteed. DI can make it harder to pull off, but this is a real thing (which will probaby be fixed in the next update). He can get an fsmash out of it too.

 

[Jacob29]

Have you tried DIing into the ground and then teching it?

No idea if that will work just throwing it out.

 

[The Derrit]

I played that same Kirby. Honestly, while it does suck (and it does) that is a matchup where it's very easy to not get grabbed. As long as you're not spacing moves poorly Kirby should not be able to get you on the ground in a place where he can walk right up next to you - he doesn't have the mobility or the range to do it.

 

[kevinw0w]

I played that same Kirby. Honestly, while it does suck (and it does) that is a matchup where it's very easy to not get grabbed. As long as you're not spacing moves poorly Kirby should not be able to get you on the ground in a place where he can walk right up next to you - he doesn't have the mobility or the range to do it.

hmm, yeah. It's almost like playing Ice Climbers. It isn't the easiest thing for them to land a grab, but once they do, it's certain death for you. I still don't think the MU is in ivy's favor though.

 

[niqster]

Hopefully we will be able to see Chu play Denti; that will let us know officially!

 

[Kronos_The_Beast]

I sometimes get CGd by a certain Marth, not sure of dthrow or fthrow, at least twice in a row, sometimes 3, sometimes even 4 when he throws in bthrows...

Any tips on DIing out of this? I'm used to 64's smash DI.

 

[TreK]

You can't DI out of it, it's bull****.

First thing is you have to learn to recognize if it's the throw that sends you forward, or the throw that sends you behind him. It's very important. His throws are very fast so be ready for it.
Then you'll have to make a guess. He will typically do one of two things : a regrab, or an fsmash.
In case it's a regrab, you want to DI away, it's very straight forward. Except because of the mixup I told you about, there's no telling which way is "away" until you see him toss you.
In case it's an fsmash, however, it's a bit more complicated. From 0 to about 50-60, you are forced to eat the fsmash anyways, so you have to DI in in order to avoid getting hit by the tipper, which will kill you at ridiculous percentages. Skilled marths will dash back and attempt to reposition themselves for a tipper if you DI in too systematically, however. Then after this whole mess is gone, and you're at 70ish, you can't get regrabbed, but you can still get fsmashed if you DI in, so you have to DI out. There's still the mixup with the direction he's tossing you in, so you may still want to pay attention. A lot of attention. tipper fsmash really, really hurts.

Some Marths also let you tech sometimes, so beware of that. Marth's tech chase is very good.

Yeah Marth is stoopid.

 

[Kronos_The_Beast]

You can't DI out of it, it's bull****.

First thing is you have to learn to recognize if it's the throw that sends you forward, or the throw that sends you behind him. It's very important. His throws are very fast so be ready for it.
Then you'll have to make a guess. He will typically do one of two things : a regrab, or an fsmash.
In case it's a regrab, you want to DI away, it's very straight forward. Except because of the mixup I told you about, there's no telling which way is "away" until you see him toss you.
In case it's an fsmash, however, it's a bit more complicated. From 0 to about 50-60, you are forced to eat the fsmash anyways, so you have to DI in in order to avoid getting hit by the tipper, which will kill you at ridiculous percentages. Skilled marths will dash back and attempt to reposition themselves for a tipper if you DI in too systematically, however. Then after this whole mess is gone, and you're at 70ish, you can't get regrabbed, but you can still get fsmashed if you DI in, so you have to DI out. There's still the mixup with the direction he's tossing you in, so you may still want to pay attention. A lot of attention. tipper fsmash really, really hurts.

Some Marths also let you tech sometimes, so beware of that. Marth's tech chase is very good.

Yeah Marth is stoopid.

Great advice man. One more thing, any tips on tech-rolling? It was so much easier on 64 :S

 

[TreK]

The idea is quite simple, you have to press shield in a 20 frames window before landing. However, if you press it too soon, in example if you attempted to shield a move and failed, the game won't read your techs for 40 frames, no matter what. So there's a chance to fail it even though the tech window itself is gigantic.

I don't know how it is in 64 so I can't really draw comparisons, sorry :C

 

[MomBomb]

i think another chain grab that is effective ivy is pikachus forward throw, I'm pretty sure at low percentages he can do that tip you're close to off the stage